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Thread: Liverpool and Martin Luther King

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool and Martin Luther King

    Liverpool tourist chiefs stand by Martin Luther King claim, Daily Telegraph, Monday, 4 April 2011.

    ". . . tourism officials in the city have published the extraordinary claim that Martin Luther King’s 'I have a dream' speech was written at a city centre hotel. The allegation has been made in a guide to a major art event entitled 'Liverpool Discovers', commissioned by amongst others, the city council.

    "A map in the guide shows how more than 20 locations where famous people were born along with places associated with celebrities and events in their lives.

    "The guide proclaims: 'Martin Luther King visited his supporters in Liverpool three times, and the first draft of his famous "I have a dream" speech is alleged to be written on Adelphi Hotel headed notepaper.'

    "The speech, delivered to civil rights campaigners on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington in 1963, is one of the most quoted texts in history and was a defining moment in the American Civil Rights movement and in the fight for racial equality."

    The claim seems to be very dubious.

    The following article might give the true dope about the first draft of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech:

    On Martin Luther King Day, remembering the first draft of 'I Have a Dream' by Clarence B. Jones, Washington Post, Sunday, January 16, 2011.

    Mr. Jones was a speechwriter for Dr. King and he says that before arriving in Washington, D.C., before MLK gave the speech, nothing had been done to begin writing the speech:


    ADVERTISING




    ". . . it wasn't until mid-August that Martin had Stanley [Levison, another adviser and speechwriter] and I work up a draft. And though I had that material with me when I arrived at the Willard Hotel in Washington for a meeting on the evening of Tuesday, Aug. 27, Martin still didn't know what he was going to say. . . . 12 hours before the March on Washington began, Martin gathered with a small group of advisers to hammer out the themes of his speech."

    Chris
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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    Interesting story.......would be nice if it were true.
    Didn't know Dr King had visited Liverpool, I'm sure we would have been aware if he had??

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    Wishful thinking methinks! It is even alleged that Hitler visited his cousin in Liverpool, who worked at the Adelphi. The Adelphi had many illustrious visitors over the years. The tale of Roy Rodgers and Trigger may be true- I've seen the pictures!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat scouse View Post
    Wishful thinking methinks! It is even alleged that Hitler visited his cousin in Liverpool, who worked at the Adelphi. The Adelphi had many illustrious visitors over the years. The tale of Roy Rodgers and Trigger may be true- I've seen the pictures!
    As a wee lad, I saw Roy Rogers and Trigger onstage at the Empire so I think you are correct about Roy and the horse. As for Adolf and MLK, it's a bit of colorful legend in both cases, I think.



    Roy Rogers, Trigger, and wife Dale Evans
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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    Ah, those were the days Chris. More on Roy, Trigger and much else...

    http://www.spencerleigh.demon.co.uk/Vincent_sample2.htm

    ---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/local...y_rogers.shtml

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    I must admit I also questioned this when I read it. I don't think it is true.

    The Liverpool Discovers project is, in my opinion, appalling. There has clearly been no adequate research or any sort of objective criticism of the subject matter.

    It seems rushed and very superficial.

    As to the 'local historians' they have consulted; I assume this does not include the proper academic historians (Belchem, Royden etc...). Its probably the the big-mouthed regurgitators of Liverpools past histories with no record of their own research.

    I know this may seem a little elitist, but I am unapologetic for that. There is 'folk history' and 'local history' - both tell us a lot about people, places and times but the difference is that proper local history must follow the historical method of having evidence and authority.

    By evidence I mean something solid, paperwork, a building, records.

    By authority I mean an education or at least training in line with regard to academic rigour.

    Accepting submissions from Johnny Public and printing them as fact is a great disservice to Liverpool and its history.

    Oh... and they also include the William Mackenzie pyramid story.

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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Sounds like the same people who advised the "Beatles Story" re' "facts", according to a recent post by Knowhowe!!!

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    I must admit I also questioned this when I read it. I don't think it is true.

    The Liverpool Discovers project is, in my opinion, appalling. There has clearly been no adequate research or any sort of objective criticism of the subject matter.

    It seems rushed and very superficial.

    As to the 'local historians' they have consulted; I assume this does not include the proper academic historians (Belchem, Royden etc...). Its probably the the big-mouthed regurgitators of Liverpools past histories with no record of their own research.

    I know this may seem a little elitist, but I am unapologetic for that. There is 'folk history' and 'local history' - both tell us a lot about people, places and times but the difference is that proper local history must follow the historical method of having evidence and authority.

    By evidence I mean something solid, paperwork, a building, records.

    By authority I mean an education or at least training in line with regard to academic rigour.

    Accepting submissions from Johnny Public and printing them as fact is a great disservice to Liverpool and its history.

    Oh... and they also include the William Mackenzie pyramid story.
    Unfortunately a lot of things get accepted as "the truth" when, as you say, some careful research will show that such stories are tosh.

    ---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oudeis View Post
    Ah, those were the days Chris. More on Roy, Trigger and much else...

    http://www.spencerleigh.demon.co.uk/Vincent_sample2.htm

    ---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/local...y_rogers.shtml
    Glad to read that Trigger was actually in the police stables on Smithdown Road, even if his hoofmark is in the Adelphi guest registration book. I do remember that Roy shot some dice out of the air from the stage of the Empire. Of course whether he actually did that or it was just illusion, I am not sure. I doubt if there were any live bullets buzzing round in the Empire!

    Chris
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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Glad to read that Trigger was actually in the police stables on Smithdown Road, even if his hoofmark is in the Adelphi guest registration book.
    I always thought he was kept at the Corportation Central Stables, Smithdown Lane - at least that was what I was told by the Williamson Tunnels people.

    Also, Cadfaels website: http://www.smithdownlane.co.uk/ Suggests it was so.

    I have no evidence, but it makes more sense to have it near the city centre than on Smithdown Road.

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    Trigger sold for a lot of money a year ago...

    http://www.usatoday.com/life/televis...rs-horse_N.htm

    I remember the museum in Branson, but I guess it' moving...

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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    Maybe it's a late April Fool!

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I've just been listening to local radio and they have been talking about urban myths. They reckon this is one of them.

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    I wouldn't even say urabn myth. A myth is something that has been around for a long time and is generally known about in the wider population.

    I certainly hadn't heard of the Martin Luther King story until Liverpool Discovered happened.

    Is it really an urban myth if it's just a few months old? More like an outright lie to me.

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    I have a dream...


    That MLK came to Liverpool and penned those words. What a load of ole twaddle.
    It's getting them a lot of publicity though.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    I have a dream...


    That MLK came to Liverpool and penned those words. What a load of ole twaddle.
    It's getting them a lot of publicity though.
    One of my history pals joked that it was more likely, being Liverpool, "I Have a Team."
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Martin Luther King was a scouser. You can tell 'cos he nicked notepaper from the Adephi without anyone knowing he was there.

    Geddin der lid.

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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    Organisers of an art project have apologised after they were "misled" by the "famous Liverpudlian sense of humour".
    Liverpool Discovers was forced to apologise after it published claims in a tour guide that Martin Luther King Jnr's "I have a dream" speech was penned in Liverpool's Adelphi Hotel.

    Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/br...#ixzz1IfHB4muE

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie1 View Post
    Organisers of an art project have apologised after they were "misled" by the "famous Liverpudlian sense of humour".
    Liverpool Discovers was forced to apologise after it published claims in a tour guide that Martin Luther King Jnr's "I have a dream" speech was penned in Liverpool's Adelphi Hotel.

    Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/br...#ixzz1IfHB4muE
    Thanks, Lizzie. I didn't think there was anything in the claim. It's unfortunate that the tourism people would be so gullible as to actually publish the story without properly checking it out.
    Christopher T. George
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    I think its true.....also the Moon landing happened in Liverpool cos its in our sky so it must have....the first Comedian was invented in Liverpool...a Cat and Dog Hybrid was bred in Liverpool but drowned in Sefton Park lake after chasing itself......Everton won the premiership (sorry too far fetched)

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    I looked everywhere,but the nearest connection I could find,was,James Earl Ray(his assassin) being collared at Heathrow airport!!

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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    Another conspiracy?!

    During the 1990s, the widow and children of Martin Luther King Jr. spoke publicly in support of Ray and his claims, calling him innocent and speculating about an assassination conspiracy involving the U.S. government and military. U.S. authorities were, in conspiracists' minds, implicated circumstantially. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover obsessed over King, who he thought was under communist influence. For the last six years of his life, King underwent constant wiretapping and harassment by the FBI. Before his death, Dr. King was also monitored by U.S. military intelligence, which may have been asked to watch King after he publicly denounced the Vietnam War in 1967. Furthermore, by calling for radical economic reforms in 1968, including guaranteed annual incomes for all, King was making few new friends in the Cold War-era U.S. government.

    http://www.newschannel9.com/news/kin...ray-april.html

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    I wasn't aware of the previous attempts on King's life,including ,being stabbed,and his home being firebombed! After his death,in 1998,his convicted killer,Ray, was considered a victim of a murder conspiracy,by a Tennesee jury!

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    As suspected. They can't pull the wool over our eyes.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...name_page.html


    I'd like to know who they were???

    “All the information published in our literature has come from a lengthy public consultation where the people of Liverpool were asked to tell their stories about the city. This was then verified by local historians.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie1 View Post
    Another conspiracy?!

    During the 1990s, the widow and children of Martin Luther King Jr. spoke publicly in support of Ray and his claims, calling him innocent and speculating about an assassination conspiracy involving the U.S. government and military. U.S. authorities were, in conspiracists' minds, implicated circumstantially. FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover obsessed over King, who he thought was under communist influence. For the last six years of his life, King underwent constant wiretapping and harassment by the FBI. Before his death, Dr. King was also monitored by U.S. military intelligence, which may have been asked to watch King after he publicly denounced the Vietnam War in 1967. Furthermore, by calling for radical economic reforms in 1968, including guaranteed annual incomes for all, King was making few new friends in the Cold War-era U.S. government.

    http://www.newschannel9.com/news/kin...ray-april.html
    James Earl Ray appears to have been an arch manipulator of the media, putting out so many stories, first admitting to the crime and then issuing various denials that he ended up putting up a smokescreen that hid the truth. Mark David Chapman in some ways has done the same thing about the Lennon assassination.

    ---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    As suspected. They can't pull the wool over our eyes.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...name_page.html


    I'd like to know who they were???

    “All the information published in our literature has come from a lengthy public consultation where the people of Liverpool were asked to tell their stories about the city. This was then verified by local historians.”
    The verification process left something to be desired. And why anyway would local historians know better than historians who had actually studied the career of Martin Luther King? Sounds like they are trying to paper over their error.
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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    It does indeed Chris.
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    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Who are these 'Local Historians' or are they just scapegoats for the failure of Liverpool Discovers to check facts.

    I know of at least one other mistake (not a historical one) the Liverpool Discovers team made.

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