That's the one I mentioned earlier, it was officially the Clock, listed as 36 Cazneau st and 36 Juvenal St and there's a sliver of the corner of it in my book 2, Paddy's market is on the other corner. It was known as the Birkenhead House which was on the clock itself. That's if it is that one of course
Hi everyone
I have noted down some of the names you have given me and hopefully I'll get to speak to my elderly aunt sometime next week and she just might remember something if I mention these names to her- you know how it is when you just can't remember something but someone mentions the name and all of a sudden it all comes back. I'm hoping that this happens but I'm not pinning my hopes on it! Seriouly though, I can't thank you enough for all your hard work and just like Chippie said if you lot can't find it, it was never there.
Someone has also asked me to look into a pub called The Wiggin Tree in Parbold Hill, Parbold, Wigan. Does anyone know this pub and anything about it's history? I think it may have had it's name changed but from what and when it was chnged I don't know as yet. The name is not spelt wrong and is obviously a play on where it stands. I've ordered a book on Inns of character in Lancashire but lord knows when it'll arrive and if there's even a mention of it in there. I thought it might be useful though to help others out on the forum given that you have all been so kind to me in my personal search. Hope you don't think I'm cheeky asking you to help me again- I really will try to help others if I can and hence why I've ordered that book.
Many thanks
Nickie x
Originally Posted by nickie1105
Av a little look at this Nickie..
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs...n_Tree/Parbold
And this..
http://www.5minutesaway.co.uk/motorw...n%2027%C2%A0M6
Last edited by Gerard; 06-13-2007 at 02:30 PM.
I do an annual run, the Parbold Hill race, the Wiggin tree, with great views sits right at the top.
At least someone's heard of the place!!!!
Hi again
Yes, I come accross some of those links through a google search and noticed it had become a Brewers Fare- dam shame that all these old pubs are sold to big chains but then I guess they're forced into it for survival these days. Still, I guess it preserves the buildings for future generations rather than them become vacant and derelict. I've just noticed the link to your site which I've passed on to my dad via email. He'll love it! Haven't had chance to have a thorough look myself yet but my dad lived in tenements in his younger days. Maybe he'll spot his old abodes amongst your many pictures. It's great to know that there are people like you out there preserving our history.
Nickie x
Cheers Nickie, you're welcome.
I've been to the Wiggin Tree - nice place. Lovely views.
After the Parbold hill race of course, I assume Lindy?
I,ve seen the Wiggin Tree on Parbold Hill, don,t think I,ve been in for a drink though. I used to go to Parbold quite regularly when I was younger, for the walk down to the stream and the views too. I took my reliant up there once, took about three hours to get up the hill and seven minutes to come back down.
Nicki, which tenements did your dad live in?
Pub in Scotland Road Area
Hi Nickie,
We will narrow down the search for the one near Scottie. Those days all pubs had to be open during 'opening hours'. They were not allowed to be shut - of course they had to be shut at whatever closing time was. (Except for the local coppers who had an 'arrangement' with the licencee, (Ha Ha). Closing time altered over many years. This was a custom from what was called The Wayfarers Act in the mid 17th century - that local 'hostelries' as they were called, were there to provide accommodation, nourishment and refreshment to any traveller. In other words in the days of King Charles and his heirs they were open all b....y hours.
When local markets properly came into being in Liverpool the nearby pubs began to apply for special licences to be open from (say) about 4am - coz market workers got there early to sort out their produce and stalls. This continued until at least the 1960's in Liverpool. Probably means that some might have been quite pissed as they were passing you out the tomatoes and vegetables. (I digress).
Now, here we go. The Special Licence for 'Six Day pubs' was applied for by licencees or via their brewery in the years you are looking for were originally because of the hours they were working and they wanted to close on a Sunday. After all getting up at 3am to get the pumps ready for 4am was a bit of a chore. They then asked local Licencing Benches for permission to close on a Sunday - and this was granted to a very small number of pubs in Liverpool. One that I know of was in Williamson Square. Unfortunately I still can't help with the one you are looking for.
However, you have given us a challenge. And as someone said, If we can't help you then it wasn't there. I will be checking certain other sources (as I worked as Area Manager in Liverpool, for Tetley Walker. I have seen the other posts and was in actual fact the area manager for most of those pubs in Liverpool in the early 70's.
If its there we''l find it. If it's not we'll still have a piss up.
William Brown, that was interesting.
I didn't know that only a few pubs were closed on Sundays.
There was the Sixie near me on the corner of South Hill Road and Dingle Mount.
Freddy O'Connor says pubs like the Sixie only need pay for a 6 day license instead of a seven day license.
He seems to suggest that they had the choice.
The Sixie was officially called the Mount, but had 'Sixie' painted on it.
I used to pass it often when I walked the dog, and it was always hard to tell if it was open or not!
All this block has been demolished.
Yes, God that was interesting! I had no idea that the licensing was so strict going back that far- it always seemed to me that they pretty much did as they liked. The fact that these lisences were only given to a very small number of pubs would certainly narrow down the search and maybe even nail it straight off if you can find out which pubs were given the licenses. I doubt that 2 or more pubs in the same area would have been granted the same license in the same vacinity so this would be fab news.
I know I keep saying this but I really do want you all to know how much I appreciate your efforts. If I'd have searched the whole country I couldn't have found a more helpful bunch as you lot. But hey that's scousers for ya- the best and friendliest people in the country if not the world!
Also, in reply to Gerard- I'm not exactly sure which tennement blocks my dad lived in but I'll ask him about it. I remember him telling me about somewhere called Pleasant View and something Gardens which he said was a complete dump but I'm not sure if these were tennement blocks or just somewhere where one of his aunts lived. Did they also call the tennements 'landings' or where these something completely different? Excuse the naivety here, I'm only 32 so I'm a bit young for stuff going back that far!!!
Nickie x
Last edited by nickie1105; 06-14-2007 at 04:32 PM.
A pleasant view and tenements is a contradiction in terms ha ha.
The first tenements were known commonly as landing dwellings and are the pre WWI type. The second large development after the slum clearances of the 20s and 30s were more commonly known as corporation walk up flats or municipal/council/corpy tenements.
There are a few threads in the housing section of this forum showing pics of both types.
Pub In Scotland Road
Hi Nickie,
I have been away a couple of days but will be looking at certain resources in the next couple. To PhillipG: One could not just simply choose to opt to have a six day licence. That all altered in about 1903 with the first Licencing Act of the twentieth century. However, you are still correct in that each licencee could apply for one.
There was a catch. It is a controversial issue but most pubs were totally owned by breweries such as Cain, Walker, Bents, Bass, Charrington, Tetley etc. There were some (Free Pubs) actually owned by those who ran them. Then there were 'Tenanted Houses' owned by the brewery: but the fixtures, fittings and stock were purchased and (of course) owned by the people that ran them.
Breweries, who owned the places, were loathe to apply for six day licences - they wanted all the profits. So it is more likely that six day ones were either 'free houses' or tenanted houses - and, as I have said previously, sited near markets.
Nickie: I still think the one you are looking for was by the Cazneau Street Market. Also if your dad lived anywhere near Gerard Gardens then this is a further clue. Gerard Gardens was built around the 1930's and was what Ged said, a walk up tenement building with three floors - and two balconies. It was very close (I think) to the market mentioned in other posts.
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