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Thread: Dinham Villa, Rainhill, and Frederick Deeming (the Rainhill Demon)

  1. #1
    DaisyChains
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    Default Dinham Villa, Rainhill, and Frederick Deeming (the Rainhill Demon)

    Hey all

    I am sure someone will know this on here...

    As in the case of Frederick Deeming (the Rainhill Demon)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Bailey_Deeming , he lived in a house called Dinham Villa in Rainhill.

    Does anyone know where this is/was?
    Or if it still exists?

    Ta

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    Senior Member AntiPathos's Avatar
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    I've wondered about this too...

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    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiPathos View Post
    I've wondered about this too...
    Anyone have any ideas?

  4. #4
    theninesisters
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    It is (or at least used to be) in Lawton Road, Rainhill. My mate lives in the next road so I will give him a shout on Monday and see what he knows.

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    MarkA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    Does anyone know where this is/was?
    Or if it still exists?Ta
    Hi, according to the Wikipedia site, it was demolished.

    Frederick Bailey Deeming was convicted of the murder of Emily Mather and hanged in Australia. Dinham Villa in Rainhill was demolished. The Rainhill victims were interred in the graveyard of St. Ann's Church. Sadly, the headstone marking their grave was stolen, thus it is now unmarked.

    from...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainhill

  6. #6
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona76 View Post
    It is (or at least used to be) in Lawton Road, Rainhill. My mate lives in the next road so I will give him a shout on Monday and see what he knows.
    Brilliant!
    Thank you!

  7. #7
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    Brilliant!
    Thank you!
    hi jona
    did you ever find out anymore abiut this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    Hey all

    I am sure someone will know this on here...

    As in the case of Frederick Deeming (the Rainhill Demon)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Bailey_Deeming , he lived in a house called Dinham Villa in Rainhill.

    Does anyone know where this is/was?
    Or if it still exists?

    Ta
    Hi DaisyChains

    Dinham Villa was definitely demolished soon after the inquest on the corpses of Deeming's wife and four children discovered under the hearthstone of the house. Deeming, by then in Australia, had also murdered the Rainhill girl he took as his next wife and buried her in his house outside of Melbourne, the crime for which he was hanged.

    Deeming married his second wife, Miss Emily Mather, in Rainhill on 22 September 1891 two months after he had murdered his first wife, Marie, and his four children, aged eight and under – one of them an infant. It is thought that he killed them with a native battle ax while they were in bed then slit their throats. He then cemented them under the hearthstone of Dinham Villa. He even had the temerity to hold a wedding banquet in the murder house. On 17 October, he and his new wife sailed for Australia. Two months later, on Christmas Eve, he murdered Emily and cemented her remains under the hearthstone of their Windsor, Melbourne, home, but the rocky ground of Melbourne proved not so conducive to concealing his crimes as the damp, rich earth of Rainhill would prove.

    After murdering Emily, Deeming traveled to Perth, Western Australia, under the alias of Baron Swanston. In this guise, one of his many pseudonyms, he proposed to another woman. Emily’s remains were found in Melbourne on 3 March after a smell had been noticed in the house. The killer was arrested on 11 March 1892 and extradited to Victoria to stand trial. News of the finding of the remains in Windsor, Melbourne, buried in cement was telegraphed to England where inquiries into his movements were begun.

    Following a tip from a newsman, on 13 March, Superintendent Keighley of Widnes obtained permission to dig up the cement in Dinham Villa. Three days later, on 16 March, the five bodies were unearthed.

    With the still unsolved Whitechapel murders in the minds of reporters, and given Deeming’s British connections, the press naturally theorised that he could have been Jack the Ripper:

    The arrest of the man Deeming in Australia, and the disclosures of the various murders which are attributed to him have created the most profound sensation throughout the world. Greater interest is attached to the case as it is uncertain yet whether Deeming is not the veritable Jack the Ripper whose atrocities roused the public excitement to the highest pitch in 1888–91. (‘The Liverpool and Australia Murders. Is Deeming “Jack the Ripper”?’ The Daily Gleaner, 19 April 1892.)

    Most students of the Ripper case don't think Deeming was the Ripper and it is believed that he was in South Africa at the time of the Whitechapel murders committed in the East End in August-November 1888. Nonetheless, Liverpool-born Ripper author Des McKenna, who died this April after a battle with cancer, favoured Deeming as a suspect, going against the tide of opinion. In a recent article on Deeming in the Whitechapel Journal 1888, Des asked, "Should he be so easily dismissed? He was perhaps the most inhuman ogre ever to stalk the corridor of nightmare."

    Chris George
    Christopher T. George
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    Editor, Loch Raven Review
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  9. #9
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi DaisyChains

    Dinham Villa was definitely demolished soon after the inquest on the corpses of Deeming's wife and four children discovered under the hearthstone of the house. Deeming, by then in Australia, had also murdered the Rainhill girl he took as his next wife and buried her in his house outside of Melbourne, the crime for which he was hanged.

    Deeming married his second wife, Miss Emily Mather, in Rainhill on 22 September 1891 two months after he had murdered his first wife, Marie, and his four children, aged eight and under – one of them an infant. It is thought that he killed them with a native battle ax while they were in bed then slit their throats. He then cemented them under the hearthstone of Dinham Villa. He even had the temerity to hold a wedding banquet in the murder house. On 17 October, he and his new wife sailed for Australia. Two months later, on Christmas Eve, he murdered Emily and cemented her remains under the hearthstone of their Windsor, Melbourne, home, but the rocky ground of Melbourne proved not so conducive to concealing his crimes as the damp, rich earth of Rainhill would prove.

    After murdering Emily, Deeming traveled to Perth, Western Australia, under the alias of Baron Swanston. In this guise, one of his many pseudonyms, he proposed to another woman. Emily’s remains were found in Melbourne on 3 March after a smell had been noticed in the house. The killer was arrested on 11 March 1892 and extradited to Victoria to stand trial. News of the finding of the remains in Windsor, Melbourne, buried in cement was telegraphed to England where inquiries into his movements were begun.

    Following a tip from a newsman, on 13 March, Superintendent Keighley of Widnes obtained permission to dig up the cement in Dinham Villa. Three days later, on 16 March, the five bodies were unearthed.

    With the still unsolved Whitechapel murders in the minds of reporters, and given Deeming’s British connections, the press naturally theorised that he could have been Jack the Ripper:

    The arrest of the man Deeming in Australia, and the disclosures of the various murders which are attributed to him have created the most profound sensation throughout the world. Greater interest is attached to the case as it is uncertain yet whether Deeming is not the veritable Jack the Ripper whose atrocities roused the public excitement to the highest pitch in 1888–91. (‘The Liverpool and Australia Murders. Is Deeming “Jack the Ripper”?’ The Daily Gleaner, 19 April 1892.)

    Most students of the Ripper case don't think Deeming was the Ripper and it is believed that he was in South Africa at the time of the Whitechapel murders committed in the East End in August-November 1888. Nonetheless, Liverpool-born Ripper author Des McKenna, who died this April after a battle with cancer, favoured Deeming as a suspect, going against the tide of opinion. In a recent article on Deeming in the Whitechapel Journal 1888, Des asked, "Should he be so easily dismissed? He was perhaps the most inhuman ogre ever to stalk the corridor of nightmare."

    Chris George
    Thanks Chris
    All very interesting stuff!
    I for one don't think he was the Ripper...

  10. #10
    New Zealand Barb's Avatar
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    Default Fredrick Deeming in New Zealand

    Apparently Fredrick Deeming also came to New Zealand before going to Melbourne. I was brought up in Rainhill, but have lived in N.Z for the past 36 years. It came as a suprise to me when reading in our local Masterton paper a story about Fredrick Deeming with a reference to the Rainhill murders, and how he had spent a short time in Masterton which is situated about 120 km north of Wellington.

    Barb N.Z
    Last edited by Barb; 02-17-2008 at 09:49 AM.

  11. #11
    Chris48
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    I'm ashamed to say tht I have never heard of this man and i know Rainhill quite well. Lawton road was an affluent area (still is). What was his background Chris?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris48 View Post
    I'm ashamed to say tht I have never heard of this man and i know Rainhill quite well. Lawton road was an affluent area (still is). What was his background Chris?
    Born in Birkenhead, Chris, 30 July 1853. There's an article about him at

    http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-deeming.html

    and see this article of mine as well which covers Deeming and his Rainhill crimes:

    http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...brighouse.html

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    The exact location was on the west side of Lawton Road, about where the 6th and 7th modern day dwellings are (counting from the Warrington Road end). It's marked by name on the 1894 1:10560 OS map.

  14. #14
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghughesarch View Post
    The exact location was on the west side of Lawton Road, about where the 6th and 7th modern day dwellings are (counting from the Warrington Road end). It's marked by name on the 1894 1:10560 OS map.
    Absolutely brilliant thank you!

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    Very interesting. Great to know that about the location of Dinham Villa, GH. By the way, we have an article upcoming in Ripperologist on Deeming and his Melbourne jail cell by Australian Adam Went.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Member ghughesarch's Avatar
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    you'll find the maps by searching for "Rainhill" on this useful site:

    http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx

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    Member ghughesarch's Avatar
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    Emily Mather, Deeming's wife who was found murdered in Australia, was the daughter of a local newsagent in Rainhill - her mother's shop is still standing at the corner of View Road and Warrington Road, I think it was still a newsagents in recent years but I remember it being derelict for a long time:

    http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/deeming/d...G184page75.htm

  18. #18
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    Default Dinham Villa location

    I thought this may be of interest. I superimposed the location of Dinham Villa (from the 1894 OS map) onto a contemporary satellite shot from Google maps - using Photoshop to wrap the cartographer's image accurately to the photo (i.e. lining the roads and landmarks up as near as possible). The original villa was located within the rectangle where I've increased the brightness.


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    Hi lierbag

    Very interesting. Thanks for doing this. This gives folks a good idea exactly where it all happened.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Quote Originally Posted by lierbag View Post
    I thought this may be of interest. I superimposed the location of Dinham Villa (from the 1894 OS map) onto a contemporary satellite shot from Google maps - using Photoshop to wrap the cartographer's image accurately to the photo (i.e. lining the roads and landmarks up as near as possible). The original villa was located within the rectangle where I've increased the brightness.

    I realise this thread is more ancient than my Grandad's frying pan - but I used to live about a minute's walk from the site where the villa once stood. I spent my childhood in Rainhill and new nothing about the case!

    I found an old article from 1892 about the murders - it was quite interesting, I thought: http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3034869
    Last edited by sararainhill; 09-09-2009 at 10:37 PM. Reason: added link

  21. #21
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    He may not have been Jack the Ripper as some have alleged but the Public Record Office of Victoria, Australia, have done an extraordinary job of putting on-line documents and information about this fascinating murderer and con man.

    The timing of Frederick Bailey Deeming's arrest and the sheer viciousness of his crimes led to him being in the frame for being the Ripper, but it would seem that Deeming's nefarious career was separate to Jack's.

    Check it all out at

    http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/deeming/default.htm

    A number of the documents and ephemera relate to Merseyside, to Liverpool or Rainhill.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Courtesy of Howard Brown at JtR Forums, some contemporary news stories about multiple murderer Frederick Bailey Deeming and the murders at Rainhill:

    One of the earliest reports of the grim discoveries at Rainhill, from The Aberdeen Journal, Thursday, March 17, 1892:
    ************************************************** **



    Blackburn Standard and Weekly Express, Saturday, March 26, 1892:
    ************************************************** **



    Some newspapermen claimed that police were working on the theory that family murderer Deeming could also have been Jack the Ripper, as here in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post, Saturday, March 26, 1892:
    *********************************************



    Other reports though put the crimes in better perspective as in this report in The Graphic, Saturday, March 26, 1892
    ******************************




    Still the speculation continued. A graphic comparing Deeming and a suspect in the Ripper murders. Illustrated Police News, Saturday, April 16, 1892:
    *************************************



    Leeds Mercury, Wednesday, April 27, 1892:
    ********************************
    Christopher T. George
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    Here you go, Im from Rainhill and visited Melbourne Gaol last year. These photos may be of interest..............the good man himself.....

    Regards,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Thank you bigsouth!

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225978531486

    Chris, this maybe of interest to you.
    To acquire knowledge, one must study.
    But to acquire wisdom, one must observe.
    The error of the past is the wisdom and success of the future.

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    Hi - I just found your forum searching for Dinham villa - I have something that might be of interest - my great uncle kept a railway crossing in lincolnshire and to practice his handwriting copied stuff out of the newspapers into a journal - included is this sketch of the house and where the bodies were found and a few other details...Click image for larger version. 

Name:	269708_10150302157252323_523847322_9234728_7013885_n.jpg 
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ID:	21869

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    Hello Richard

    Thanks for alerting us about your great uncle's journal about Dinham Villa and Frederick Bailey Deeming. Although the sketches were not original to him but were copied from the newspaper they are still of interest, I think, and might be valuable to a collector. If you don't mind, I am going to let a Ripperologist who lives in Hull know about the journal. Might I ask, are you resident in Lincolnshire, as your great uncle was, or elsewhere?

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hello Richard

    Thanks for alerting us about your great uncle's journal about Dinham Villa and Frederick Bailey Deeming. Although the sketches were not original to him but were copied from the newspaper they are still of interest, I think, and might be valuable to a collector. If you don't mind, I am going to let a Ripperologist who lives in Hull know about the journal. Might I ask, are you resident in Lincolnshire, as your great uncle was, or elsewhere?

    All the best

    Chris
    Thank's a lot Chris!!!! after reading all those reports am I glad that i'm off until thursday? other wise I'll be checking behind me walking though the dark building with just my trusty batton oh sorry I meant my torch, now being a Whiston/Rainhill lad that made good reading

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardcrooks View Post
    Hi - I just found your forum searching for Dinham villa - I have something that might be of interest - my great uncle kept a railway crossing in lincolnshire and to practice his handwriting copied stuff out of the newspapers into a journal - included is this sketch of the house and where the bodies were found and a few other details...Click image for larger version. 

Name:	269708_10150302157252323_523847322_9234728_7013885_n.jpg 
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    Hi all

    On JTR Forums it appears that Howard Brown might have just posted the very newspaper article from which Richard Crooks' ancestor may have copied those images of the front elevation and plan of Dinham Villa. The article appeared in a supplement to the Manchester Courier, March 19, 1892.

    Best regards

    Chris George
    Christopher T. George
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  30. #30
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    News report found by Howard Brown of JtR Forums about the hanging of Deeming in Australia

    Kansas City Star
    May 23, 1892
    ***********


    ADVERTISING










    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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