YO! Liverpool
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Site of the Bowling Green, Mount Pleasant

  1. #1
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Site of the 'Bowling Green', Mount Pleasant

    Was this the birthplace of William Roscoe, poet?
    [EDIT: see posts #11 & 12 for the birthplace of Roscoe.]

    The map shows a house (or houses) with a Bowling Green attached to the rear of it. [EDIT] There is a possibility that this could be the later New Bowling Green Inn run by William Roscoe's father.


    ADVERTISING




    This is the site today. You can see that it is reasonably flat, and would of commanded great views of the town before the land was built up around it. The Inn was on (or very close to) the site of the Antram Hotel, Mount Pleasant.

    [Use the blue slider bar below to view the whole map.]


    [EDIT: map updated following new information.]
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  2. #2
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Here's the bowling green site on a later 1848-64 OS map [LRO]

    Notice that the lanes conform to the old boundaries of the Green. One is so named 'Green Lane', on the east. 'May Street' is the western boundary, and 'Pleasant Street' was the northern boundary, which was an extention of 'Lydia Anne Street' which dates from the time of the green [see 1795 map].

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  3. #3
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,592
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Hi Daz

    A very interesting enquiry. It might appear to me though, going by the 1795 Palmer period map, the tavern was halfway between Rodney Street and the bend in the road that is still there, as shown on Google Maps, i.e., the bend in the road is around where May Street runs north toward Pleasant Street. I would therefore put the tavern and bowling green somewhat further west of the hotel, north of and opposite, quite appropriately, Roscoe Street. By the way, wouldn't it seem likely that Green Lane, running parallel to Mount Pleasant and behind the row of houses that included the hotel, got its name from the bowling green?

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  4. #4
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Hi Chris,

    I would venture no more than one house block further west than shown, to agree with the Palmer map. Let me put some more information on the map and see if we concur?

    Cheers,

    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,592
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Thanks, Daz. It occurs to me that the western boundary of the bowling green and of the tavern property might be present-day May Street, as you indicate on your schematic.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  6. #6
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Hi Chris,

    This is as accurate as I can make it, based on Palmer's engraving of 1795. It places the tavern between May Street and Roscoe Street [on the opposing side]. William Roscoe's father was a 'market gardener'. The land surrounding the green may have been under his care as well. There's little doubt that 'Green Lane' was named after the bowling green on the site, as you suggested earlier.

    The [EDIT] houses, possible tavern was opposite where John and Cynthia married at 64 Mount Pleasant, and the neighbouring property [towards the city].

    [use the blue slide bar below to see all the map]

    Cheers,

    Daz

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,592
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Good work, Daz!

    Chris

    ---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    The tavern was opposite where John and Cynthia married at 64 Mount Pleasant, and the neighbouring property [towards the city].


    Myself and my wife Donna at Mount Pleasant registry office, Liverpool, where John and Cynthia were married on August 23, 1962. Photograph by Gerard Fleming.
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  8. #8
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Thanks Chris,

    You can see May Street on the images in the first post - showing Mount Pleasant looking down the hill. It's turning off to the right where the people are standing.

    Daz

    ---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post



    Myself and my wife Donna at Mount Pleasant registry office, Liverpool, where John and Cynthia were married. Photograph by Gerard Fleming.
    Great photo Chris,
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,592
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Yes, thanks, Daz.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  10. #10
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Fantastic CG and Daz. Pinning Liverpool together piece by piece.

  11. #11
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,093
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    The introduction to the 1848 map (re-print) of Mount Pleasant states:

    "At the junction of Hope Street and Mount Pleasant stood a gabled tavern with a bowling green..."
    "The Liverpool Medical Institution now stands close to the site of Roscoe's birthplace."

    A print of his birthplace and a description appears on pages 153-154 "Bygone Liverpool" pub.1913. Readable online:
    http://www.archive.org/stream/bygone...e/154/mode/2up

  12. #12
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,129
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Hi marky,

    Thanks for the links. You're right...Roscoe's birthplace was the 'Old Bowing Green Inn' which was at the end of Hope Street. Apparently, Mount Pleasant had two bowling greens.

    Arline Wilson, author of William Roscoe, Commerce and Culture says the Old Bowling Green Inn was 'at the corner of St Mary's Lane and Mount Pleasant.'

    I've put some details together of exactly where that was.

    Also, the year after William Roscoe's birth the family moved to the neighbouring 'New Bowling Green Inn', which William Roscoe senior had been building at the time of his son's birth.

    I can't help but wonder whether this was the lower bowling green site highlighted in the OP, as that also dates from at least 1765 [John Eyes map]. This would make some sense rather than building a new inn next to the old one, as the old inn was sited at the thin end of an awkward wedge-shaped plot. Subsequent maps only show a long narrow extension to the old inn [as shown in the later WG Herdman view] and would therefore support the suggestion of building on a different site.

    The second bowling green on Mount Pleasant is in a favourable spot as there is an abundance of market gardens nearby - situated between Renshaw Street and Mount Pleasant. These may be the very same fields that William Roscoe and his father worked, cultivating potatoes for market and the like.

    Daz



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Roscoes birthplace.jpg 
Views:	133 
Size:	1.06 MB 
ID:	17997
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  13. #13
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,678
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Thanks for this interesting thread.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,592
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Hi Marky and Daz

    Thank you both. Fascinating stuff!!!

    Cheers

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

Similar Threads

  1. Chestnut Street, Mount Pleasant
    By XL391 in forum Liverpool City Center
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-15-2011, 10:52 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

For daily updates, to support us further or to join in the conversation: Follow us on Twitter @YOLiverpool / Like our Facebook Page: @yoliverpoolpics / Join the Facebook Group: YO! Liverpool Pictures

× Thanks for coming to the web site. Support our future by turning off your Ad-Blocker or consider a donation via PayPal or Credit Card!