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Thread: Painting of Liverpool, 1769

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Default Painting of Liverpool, 1769

    'Liverpool from the Bowling Green', 1769 - painting by Michael Angelo Rooker. [LRO]

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    George Perry's map of Liverpool is also dated 1769. So I've combined both painting and map to find the artist's vantage point...not difficult given the painting's title, 'Liverpool from the Bowling Green'. The green was at the top of Upper Duke Street, between LIPA and the cathedral entrance gates. [LRO]

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    Full version of George Perry's map of Liverpool, 1769 [LRO]


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    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Very interesting, Dazza. Where exactly was the bowling green, do you know? At first glance I might have assumed it was the bowling green at the Brook House on Smithdown Road but I assume is was further in toward town than that, is that right? Actually, answering my own question, it could be the bowling green on Mount Pleasant at the pub associated with William Roscoe's father. Do I get a prize?

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your comments. Sorry no prize this time I did check the position from the bowling green on Mount Pleasant, but from that location St. Nicholas church would be much further to the right of St George's church than is shown [see below]. Not only that, St Peter's church would also be featured amongst the spires of St George's and Nicholas' churches.

    On the George Perry 1769 map [which is the same year as the painting] the 'bowling green' is shown in the top right hand corner, which is the top of Upper Duke Street. I'll work out the exact location and post later on.

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    Cheers,

    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Dazza

    Then I wonder if it might even be the bowling green of The Whitehouse, Duke Street featured on Colin Wilkinson's blog and that has the Banksy "Rat" on it.... er, if the old tavern had a bowling green back then.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Could be right Chris, the green was on the left side going up the hill. I'm just putting something together now.

    Cheers,
    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    The clue was on the 1769 map. The road forks at the bowling green. The right-hand fork says 'Road to Mount Zion'.

    So the Bowling Green was between Back Mount Street [the back of LIPA] and St James' Gardens, cutting across the present day Upper Duke St.

    The Bowling Green is highlighted 'green' on the attached map. The 1769 map is layered over the 1848 OS. [LRO]

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    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Good work guys. I always assumed that picture was from Roscoe's bowling green. Nice bit of detective work.

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    Also, if you zoom in on the horse and cart in the picture you can see two aslar stone blocks, freshly cut from the quarry.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    1753-Birth of William Roscoe...

    http://www.brycchancarey.com/slavery/roscoe1.htm

    He was born in The Bowling Green Inn...

    http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/artic...iamroscoe.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oudeis View Post
    1753-Birth of William Roscoe...

    http://www.brycchancarey.com/slavery/roscoe1.htm

    He was born in The Bowling Green Inn...

    http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/artic...iamroscoe.html
    Aye. Very good, Oudeis. William Roscoe was certainly one of Liverpool's great men of international renown as an intellectual, a writer, and an art collector. Thanks for those links, mate.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    I have found a few other sites for WR, George, mostly repeats. No luck so far on his poem, 'Mount Pleasant'. This 'bad' poetry is said to say much about life in Liverpool at the time of this painting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oudeis View Post
    I have found a few other sites for WR, George, mostly repeats. No luck so far on his poem, 'Mount Pleasant'. This 'bad' poetry is said to say much about life in Liverpool at the time of this painting.
    As I recall, the poem is in the book on William Roscoe by the late Liverpool librarian George Chandler which I own... got it for its original price of 25 bob or so before book prices went sky high.
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    Thank you for that fortinian, well worth the read.

    And only 17 pages after all.

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    1795 map showing the Bowling Green close to the present day Anglican Cathedral. In Liverpool 800 it says of Rooker's 'Liverpool from the Bowling Green' that it was painted close to the site of the Anglican Cathedral.



    ---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    I've plotted out the site of the Bowling Green, Mount Pleasant which was kept by William Roscoe the elder, the poet's father. And the Bowling Green Tavern (or Inn) where William Roscoe was born. Presumably, this is the place the poem refers to?

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...Mount-Pleasant
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

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    Hi Daz

    If the site of the quarry is correct vis--vis the site of the bowling green in the 1795 map, doesn't it seem as if this bowling green was located more where the present-day Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts (LIPA) and Mount Street are located rather than at the top of Duke Street? This would also make sense for the artist to do the painting from there, because it is further up the hill than the top end of Duke Street.

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi Daz

    If the site of the quarry is correct vis--vis the site of the bowling green in the 1795 map, doesn't it seem as if this bowling green was located more where the present-day Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts (LIPA) and Mount Street are located rather than at the top of Duke Street? This would also make sense for the artist to do the painting from there, because it is further up the hill than the top end of Duke Street.

    All the best

    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    The bowling green is partially in the garden belonging to LIPA, formally the Liverpool Institute, and the Mechanics' Institution before that. The extention to Upper Duke Street would later cut right through the green. 'Mount Street' is shown on this map [although unlabelled as the continuation of 'Knight Street']. The property boundary between the Liverpool Institute and Liverpool College of Art is also shown.

    I'll do another overlay, as I have better information now,

    Cheers,

    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  18. #18
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    1795 and 1848 maps overlaid [LRO].

    The bowling green was at the back of LIPA, it didn't however reach as far as Back Mount Street. It incorporated part of Upper Duke Street [including the some of the houses east of Pilgram Street] and terminated at the Anglican Cathedral, or the quarry, as it would have been known back then.



    ---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

    On a slightly more modern map 1848 [LRO]

    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  19. #19
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Excellent work, Daz!

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

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