Reopening The Canada Dock Line (Dec 2010)

[gregs dad]

They have only revamped Oriel road fairly recently so if there any plans in the pipeline surely they would have made allowences

[mikewturner]

They have only revamped Oriel road fairly recently so if there any plans in the pipeline surely they would have made allowences

A renewals project would be funded from a different pot to an enhancement so joined up thinking isn't always that easy...

Mike

[jc_everton]

This has all been discussed very extensively in the past. Even if Merseytravel had £50m to spare, as opposed to the paltry £5m provided for by the DfT, these projects would never go ahead. Everyone knows they make sense, and this has been debated, as I have said.

I've had a meeting with Dave Jones, a bigwig from Merseyrail, as part of my MSc Urban Renewal circa 2009, and all I got was negativity right from the outset. People need to understand that the powers at be are eternally pessimistic, and they don't give a stuff about your local transport network. Why would they, when all they do is eat biscuits all day in their cosy offices? Oh, not to mention all that tea they go through. People who post potential future maps are nieve in the extreme.... I've researched all this to great depth, and spoke with some senior figures, including Dowd himself.

No-one has the vision and determination to make these projects happen. Funding is of course paramount, but do the bigwigs really care that much? To be fair to the Southport councillor (John Pugh), he took the issue of the Burscough Curves all the way to the House of Commons, and there is indeed a video of his argument somewhere out there....
He is, however, an exception to the rule. His case is absolutely 100% valid. Nevermind all this "but we need a viable business case.. blah blah blah", there can be no more valid argument than that of CHOICE.

Transport opens doors where there once were none. It provides opportunites of travel. It provides choice. Not everyone can drive. Not everyone who can drive can travel to work/shops/meetings/etc, by public transport. It takes me 40 mins to drive to work (Atherton). In order for me to travel by public transport, I would need a 15 min walk to my nearest train station... a 10 min train to Ormskirk... a wait of [,,,], a 5 min train to Burscough Junction... a 10 min walk to Burscough Bridge... a wait of [...], a 30 min train to Atherton... a wait of [...], and a bus journey of 10 mins....

In conclusion, what choice do people like myself have, other than to travel to work by car, every bleeding day? Why should I care about the environment, when the government simply do not care about proposing a long-term (and very serious) transport strategy, that really does try to curb car usage, and provide everyone with a rail network fit for the 21st century?

You cynics who argue, "Ah but who's going to use Tuebrook station etc etc".... Absolute pessimism and negativity - the sort employed by councillors and transport chiefs. In order for disused lines to reopen and be successful (all over the country), there needs to be a very broad strategy that actively discourages car users, and encourages public transport usage. It's all about policy, which is of course, determined by attitude. And politicians, ever since the 1950s, have regarded the rail network as frivolous and irrelevant - rather like the bus network (another shambles, but I have no time for these jurassic modes of transport).

This argument is cyclical, rather like the rail network itself... it is going nowhere, and we are all getting left behind... paying the price - quite literally.

---------- Post added 01-12-2011 at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-11-2011 at 11:49 PM ----------

While I'm at it...

Oritelad: your maps look great, but do you expect these lines to ever go ahead? I admire your enthusiasm, but why continue working on them maps, when nothing will ever happen?

Liverpool Central... What an absolute disgrace. What can I say? Station refurbishment? Who are they kidding?
Southport.... Architecturally speaking, very poor. Out of character with a nice town.
Blackpool North.... Truly vulgar. What sort of welcome to Blackpool is that?

Naturally, everyone on here is only concerned with Merseyside's (disused) lines. If only I were studying something more advanced than an MSc, I (and most of you, I'm sure) would love to examine the North West's rail network, and its vast potential, in fine detail. The whole of England would surely be too large for one man to investigate?! But a quick glance on Google Maps (satellite imagery) quite clearly shows where a lot of our old lines used to connect to, and so many of these lines and links are simply lying there dormant, untouched (obviously not the tracks).
And so the pain and misery continues, as one zooms in and out of Google Maps, identifying the old lines, and finding out that many of them COULD still have a future, if only the government really cared.
Leigh is a tragic example. A tragic town itself, nevertheless, for it to not have any rail connection at all is scandalous. I was very surprised to find the Germanic town of Wolfsburg did not have a tram network... but to not have any rail access? The people in charge of these decisions back in the 1960s have a lot to answer for. I'm pretty certain Dr. Beeching did not just pick on crappy Northern towns, as the South was equally decimated.
Having witnessed at first hand, the sheer professionalism and intelligence of the GMPTE, it would not surprise me if they magically created a tram link as far as Leigh one day, but fair play to that particular PTE..... THINGS GET DONE IN MANCHESTER.

The Burscough Curves... such a simple case... but alas... the people of Ormskirk and Southport must live with a 1960s bus service. Pathetic.

The Aintree-Bootle line.... Would this really cost that much? Don't be so negative you cynics! Allow the people of Merseyside to travel!

The Canada Dock Branch.... a far more complex affair, what with all those freight trains milling about... but where there's a will there's a way. Davey Jones' attitude toward this line is typically negative... "There are already many buses serving Tuebrook etc..." Pathetic response.

The Tunnels.... heavy rail... light rail... who cares? They have great potential... but they will sadly never come into play.

[Waterways]

Because the Canada Dock Branch is being electrified it is rife for immediate reopening within a few years using Liverpool FC a financial enabler. Merseytravel only have this line and the North Mersey Branch (Aintree to Bootle) in mind in the short to mid-term. Merseytravel have all sorts of lines ready to fund as priorities over Liverpool city which expand Merseyrail outwards, while ignoring the city of Liverpool, its inner-cities and its in-place rail infrastructure.

The Council sensibly think Liverpool FC and Everton FC can both be on the disused eastern section of the Outer Loop line forming the originally planned Outer Loop, using the clubs as financial enablers, and are pushing for reopening the line. They are hoping that cash from the clubs and the CC receding will ensure funds within a few years. Just having the OUter Loop operational without the Broad Green junction may be the first stage.

The current electrification of the Liverpool to Manchester, Wigan, St.Helens, Huyton lines may entail that the tunnel connection between Liverpool central underground section and Edge Hill (the Edge Hill Spur project) connecting the east of the city is built after 35-40 years of waiting. A major cost of the project, the electrification, is paid for.

So:

1. Canada Dock Branch Line - only if LFC stay at Stanley Park which they deem not suitable as it is restricted to only 60,000.
2. Outer Loop - If LFC move to a new location on the line along with Everton FC who would also move to a location on the line.
3. Edge HIll Spur

My gut feeling is that No. 1 will go ahead within 3 three years as LFC will stay at Stanley Park, followed by No. 3 within 6-7 years.