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Thread: Liverpool's Railway Development

  1. #31
    Smurf Member scouse smurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Yep. But there are many trackbeds still around. And even many tunnels:
    • Dingle
    • Wapping
    • Waterloo
    • Kirkdale to Rice Lane
    • Haymarket in Birkenhead
    • Kirdale to Sandon Doc
    • Under Linacre Gas Works.


    All waiting for re-use
    Just coz I'm being lazy, where about are they in waterloo ?

    I assume the Linacre Gas works is the line that used to go were bootle police station is (I was mega surprised when I saw a photo of train lines there)

    Also, what's on the old bridge that goes across Linacre Rd and the high bridge further along, towards liverpool. (I'm too much of a chicken to go and have a look )

  2. #32
    Member Johnny Robbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouse smurf View Post
    Just coz I'm being lazy, where about are they in waterloo ?
    I think Waterways is probably referring to the Waterloo tunnel between Edge Hill & Waterloo dock.

  3. #33
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    Yes it will be. The first 3 on his list are all tunnels. A good idea to use them to ease congestion of traffic, particularly lorries as in the Canada dock line but as long as the tunnels are in good enough nick.
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  4. #34
    tattooed gt-grandma quincyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouse smurf View Post
    Just coz I'm being lazy, where about are they in waterloo ?

    I assume the Linacre Gas works is the line that used to go were bootle police station is (I was mega surprised when I saw a photo of train lines there)

    Also, what's on the old bridge that goes across Linacre Rd and the high bridge further along, towards liverpool. (I'm too much of a chicken to go and have a look )
    I live not far from the Linacre Rd bridge. It's occasionally used as freight line by trains, and frequently as a walkway by hoodies and other stupid folk.


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    just getting an aerial view for you

    here you go, you can just faintly see the tracks. just off pic at the bottom is somewhere Ged knows well, The Salt Box
    Last edited by quincyg; 06-09-2009 at 05:27 PM. Reason: added picture
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Yes it will be. The first 3 on his list are all tunnels. A good idea to use them to ease congestion of traffic, particularly lorries as in the Canada dock line but as long as the tunnels are in good enough nick.
    Ged, they are all tunnels. Most were used until pretty recently. The Kirkdale to Rice Lane tunnel, emerges at the flyover. The line emerged from the tunnel and then went into two curves that went north and south onto the north Liverpool extension that went through West Derby to Halewood one way and Aintree the other. Google clearly shows the curves. Parts of the curves have had houses built on them. It was foolish to do this, as all these trackbed are capable of re-use if need be. It now appears the tunnel cannot be used again as it goes nowhere, unless a CPO on some houses. Having a station at the Rice Lane flyover is not on, as the adjacent disused Spellow station on the Canada Dock Branch line is yards away on County Rd on an active freight only track awaiting passenger re-use when a stadium is built on Stanley Park.

    Below: In orange the curves can be seen above Walton -on-the -hill station. The trackbed from Halewood to Aintree though West Deerby (in orange) is still intact complete with bridges and can easily be re-used.


    The Kirkdale sidings to Sandon/Wellington Dock Tunnel may come in handy if Liverpool Waters emerges.

    The Haymarket Tunnel is very wide and square with 4 tracks. It is in the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line which runs from Rock Ferry under and across central Birkenhead to the docks near the entrance to the Queensway tunnel. The tunnel could be re-used along with the cutting the line runs in, to give access to Birkenhead Docks (Wirral Waters) from Chester and Ellesmere Port...and up the side of the Great Float to Bidston. A loop branched off the Merseyrail line, from the south of Birkenhead Central station could branch onto the line giving easy access from Liverpool centre and north Wirral.

    The tunnel under Linacre Gas Works is on the North Mersey Branch. I'm nor sure if a track is still run through the tunnel. Maintenance trains use the line, or part of the line.
    Proposals to open this section as part of Merseyrail's Northern Line have been put forward in Sefton's transport plan. The first details to emerge about a possible reopening being published by the media on 28 February 2008. The Crosby Herald newspaper reported that the line could be reopened in conjunction with Liverpool FC's Stanley Park Stadium, to provide additional transport links via the town of Litherland. The line is currently a single track and used by engineering maintenance trains. This would involve using Sefton Junction enabling reopening of Ford and Linacre Road stations, along with the possibility of a further two stations also on this stretch of line.

    The Network Rail Route Utilisation Strategy document of March 2009 stated:

    "The possibility of running passenger trains along the North Mersey and Bootle branches was examined by the RUS and cannot yet be recommended. However, future development and regeneration could lead to increased demand for such services. Any such passenger services would need to be implemented in a way that ensures current and future freight demand can be accommodated."
    Some of the the tunnels The old tunnels
    Last edited by Waterways; 07-03-2009 at 02:14 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Thanks for the info, I didn't even think of looking at google maps to see what that looked like.

    This is the photo of the tunnel running beside the bootle strand police station. It's taken from Peter Woolley's book Bootle and Orrell, so if I shouldn't put it here let me know and I'll remove it


  7. #37
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Not long ago I was in Birkenhead near Birkenhead Central station. This station is in a cutting with a tunnel either end of it. Running south the tunnel opens up to Green Lane Merseyrail station. The next station is Rock Ferry. At Rock Ferry the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line (disused since 1993) branches off running north towards Birkenhead Docks, emerging at the eastern end of the docks at Egerton and Morpeth Docks, running through a deep cutting and through the Haymarket tunnel, right through the centre of Birkenhead. This cutting still has lines in it and is overgrown with vegetation.

    Over a year ago there was official rumblings of using EU money to re-instate a line to Birkenhead Docks. The docks can be accessed via the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line or via Bidston at the western end of the docks.

    Wirral Waters proposal will use the eastern docks of Vittoria Dock and East Float. The western dock, the West Float will still be commercial shipping. It makes sense to access the docks via Bidston in the west and not via the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line to the east, coming in from the south.

    That is quite simple and pretty logical for freight traffic. However, how do you get a Merseyrail passenger line to the East Float and Wirral Waters - essential for it to become a success? The Birkenhead Dock Branch Line appears impractical as it runs back to Rock Ferry and only accessed via the south. However the tunnel directly south of Birkenhead Central station running around the gas holders can be branched into and curved into the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line. This would be a short section of new tunnel. Or raise up and onto the now demolished Mollington Street train maintenance depot. Then Merseyrail trains from Liverpool would run through Hamilton Square, Birkenhead Central and then do a U-turn and turn north onto the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line and onto Wirral Waters. A station could be built in the cutting at a suitable point. Sorted for little outlay.

    However the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line cuts right through Birkenhead centre. Such a deep cutting is a hindrance through a town centre. Precast concrete arches can be used to cover the line making a 4 track tunnel. A station can be left in the tunnel. The whole cutting can be backfilled using the now massive trench as a landfill site which is lucrative these days. The resulting land can then be sold off and developments built upon. Then Birkenhead is rid of a deep ugly gorge through its centre.

    Sounds a like a win, win to me.


    Birkenhead Central station is to the west of the round gas holders bottom right - right next to them. The dotted lines are the Merseyrail track running south to Rock Ferry and the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line running south to Rock Ferry. The solid red is the Birkenhead Dock Branch Line running through the cutting and tunnel to Birkenhead Docks and Wirral waters to the north. The solid red curve to the south of Birkenhead Central station would be a short tunnel length.


    The deep railway cutting can be clearly seen running through central Birkenhead. The green line, bottom left.

    Parts of the Lime Street cutting from Edge Hill to Lime street could be made back into a tunnel. That cutting is a nuisance creating ugly blank brick walls. along its length. Buildings could be built over various parts of it. A part of the university was built over a section.

    This Wirral Waters/Birkenhead Dock Branch Line is now on Extending Rapid Transit Merseyrail
    Last edited by Waterways; 07-07-2009 at 11:34 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

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  8. #38
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    This Wirral Waters/Birkenhead Dock Branch Line is now on Extending Rapid Transit Merseyrail
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  9. #39
    Smurf Member scouse smurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouse smurf View Post
    Thanks for the info, I didn't even think of looking at google maps to see what that looked like.

    This is the photo of the tunnel running beside the bootle strand police station. It's taken from Peter Woolley's book Bootle and Orrell, so if I shouldn't put it here let me know and I'll remove it
    Not quite the same position, but very close to where the original pic was taken. Not changed much, has it


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