Old Liverpool Railway Stations

[John_142]

Dual power trains yes that would be good plus re-oppening Edge Lane Sttaion would be great for the Retail Park and take some of the traffic off this heavily cogested road.

Also i had a letter from Merseyrail a week or two ago when i commented on the wheel stituation that they had at the time and they say they have started the tendering process for new trains.

So iam going to contact them again and find out how i could get invoilved in the desighn process as this is something i would love to do.

[Martin S]

does anyone have any info or pics of this long forgotten station?

the only info i have is that it closed around 90(!) years ago and has been left ever since

we took this picture a couple of months back and would be fascinated if anyone could shed some more light

Hi Bunf.

St James closed around 1911 although you can still see the remains of the platforms and the cutting is used for maintenance access.

The station was on the old Cheshire Lines route into Central High Level station, which is now the Merseyrail Northern Line - Hunts Cross branch.

The tunnels into Central were designed for three tracks, although that would probably not conform to modern clearance requirements and there are only two nowadays.

Being in a deep cutting, access would have been a problem. The steel staircase will have been constructed long after the station closed. However, the railway used to own land on the North side of Parliament Street, so I suspect there would have been a subway under Parliament Street with steps down to the platforms. I believe there are some station building, or the remains of them in Ashworth Street at the top of the cutting.

I don't know why the decision was taken to close the station at such an early date but I suspect that it had to do with the competition from tramways, and the fact that the short commuter route into Liverpool Central would not have attracted much traffic. Add to that the inconvenience and unpleasantness of using a low level station in the days of steam motive power. It may also have been closed to allow more traffic through the tunnel into Central.

Merseytravel are interested in reopening St James as it is the closest station to the new Arena and Convention Centre and it would also serve the south end of Chinatown, the Anglican Cathedral and the Canning housing area.

There are now four trains per hour in each direction passing through the station site but this could be doubled if the Ormskirk service, which presently reverses at Central, could be extended to Liverpool South Parkway, something that Merseytravel is considering.

Reopening the station would not be cheap as modern lifts would be required down to platform level, much as at Conway Park in Birkenhead and a new ticket office.

[HollyBlack]

... Reopening the station would not be cheap as modern lifts would be required down to platform level, much as at Conway Park in Birkenhead and a new ticket office.

Are lifts expensive then in the grand scheme of things?
Aren't they cheaper than escalators?

Mind you, a totally new station served by lifts and located at the University on the Edge Hill cutting (Lime Street mainline) would surely see a lot more usage.

[Waterways]

Are lifts expensive then in the grand scheme of things?
Aren't they cheaper than escalators?

Mind you, a totally new station served by lifts and located at the University on the Edge Hill cutting (Lime Street mainline) would surely see a lot more usage.

Cutting into the Wapping Tunnel, and re-using the tunnel, is the best idea for a uni station.

[jc_everton]

I have been following this thread intently today, as well as various other ones and I feel it is time for me to chip in.

Someone said that the Wapping Tunnel/Uni Station line would not be very profitable at all. I strongly disagree.

As a student myself, I am 99% certain that a station around Smithdown Rd would be a gold-mine, and that road at rush hours can be an absolute nightmare. My bird lives in Greenbank halls by Smithdown, and it can take up to half an hour on the bus at 9am which is ridiculous.

Link Smithdown Road with a University station and what a result - what an incentive for students who are 50-50 about coming to a Liverpool University. Got to think about non-students too - there is no way that demand would ever be low.

Not only that, but if the tunnel that linked up 'Great Howard St' station was renovated, you could have a direct link to Byrom St uni and the large Avril Robarts Library. Yes this sounds all very well and good for students, but looking at the bigger picture, there is a fantastic opportunity to revolutionise the transport system in Liverpool, which isn't exactly fantastic is it?

Ok, a rail system would could cost many millions. well what about one of them shuttle systems that gets used in somewhere like Alton Towers?! Or in Vegas, that links you from hotel to hotel. Surely this (albeit not majorly fast) system would not cost so much?!

Just a thought.

Jonny.

[Waterways]

I have been following this thread intently today, as well as various other ones and I feel it is time for me to chip in.

Someone said that the Wapping Tunnel/Uni Station line would not be very profitable at all. I strongly disagree.

As a student myself, I am 99% certain that a station around Smithdown Rd would be a gold-mine, and that road at rush hours can be an absolute nightmare. My bird lives in Greenbank halls by Smithdown, and it can take up to half an hour on the bus at 9am which is ridiculous.

Link Smithdown Road with a University station and what a result - what an incentive for students who are 50-50 about coming to a Liverpool University. Got to think about non-students too - there is no way that demand would ever be low.

Not only that, but if the tunnel that linked up 'Great Howard St' station was renovated, you could have a direct link to Byrom St uni and the large Avril Robarts Library. Yes this sounds all very well and good for students, but looking at the bigger picture, there is a fantastic opportunity to revolutionise the transport system in Liverpool, which isn't exactly fantastic is it?

Ok, a rail system would could cost many millions. well what about one of them shuttle systems that gets used in somewhere like Alton Towers?! Or in Vegas, that links you from hotel to hotel. Surely this (albeit not majorly fast) system would not cost so much?!

Just a thought.

Jonny, Smithdown Rd had a station on the bridge called Sefton Park - here are remnants of it still there. This runs to Edge Hill where access to the Stephenson Wapping and Waterloo Tunnels is. Smithdown Rd is on the London main line, so whether they will allow a Meseyrail station to use the same tracks is another matter. It would need to be 3rd rail electrified at this point to run Merseyrail trains, unless they use overhead and 3rd rail electric pickup rolling stock. The master plan for rail does include the station though.

You are right a station at the uni would make sense, also putting in stations would attract developments too. Students generally don't own cars, so they use public transport.

The abandoned underground Dingle station, the south end terminus of the old Overhead railway, was designed to extend inland, however it never did. A natural extension would be to Smithdown Rd. It is is quite easy to get the station back onto Merseyrail. Whether the cost of boring a tunnel miles inland is worth it is another matter. However the overground station is still there at Smithdown and getting them onto the system is not a great thing.

Liverpool had a fantastic transport system. There are more abandoned rail stations than any other city - there are two underground stations alone that are abandoned.

Get the transport infrastructure in place and the population will follow.

Below: the Smithdown Rd station (Sefton Pk) entrance was to the right.

[John_142]

good point about liverpool central and the black door well i found out resantly that it leads to another unused platform built in the 1970s when the loop line was built if you look out the window just before you reach liverpool central from moorfields i have a photo somewhere that a worker for merseyrail took you will see the old blocked tunnel that leads to the disused platform it was built for another line that was planned that would used the waterloo tunnel but the idea and platform have been forgot about since the 1970s but now in 2007 merseyrail are to upgrade liverpool central and they could use this platform as they are plannin to reuse the waterloo tunnel hope it happens as for other stations reopening it will happen but only in the long run it will take time and money

I have looked in the tunnel and there seems to be no sign of theanother tunnel on the same side as the Balck door.

But there is another Tunnel on the otherside IE, the Hunts Cross side which seems to be blocked up with grese block.

This Tunnel seems to me as though it weas not another platform but only an Emergency buffer stop as the tunnel dosent seem wide enough for another platfrom and the wall to the right seems to old to have been built up.

How ever there is a possibilty that the platfrom was on the Left hand side with a sperate access probbly from the original High Level Building.

So it is Still a mistery and as for the blck door then i think that it is possible that this just gives access to a ventalation shaft or Ean Old Emergency Evacuation Tunnel Built Before the stair case at the end of the platfrom somrthing like that as if you look towards the end of the tunnel towards Hunts Cross there is an old fire extinghishire box on the Left.

[HollyBlack]

... Smithdown Rd is on the London main line, so whether they will allow a Meseyrail station to use the same tracks is another matter. It would need to be 3rd rail electrified at this point to run Merseyrail trains, unless they use overhead and 3rd rail electric pickup rolling stock. The master plan for rail does include the station though. ...

There is more overhead electrification coming, starting with the Chat Moss route (Manchester-Newton-le-Willows-Earlestown-Edge Hill). More will follow.
There are so many options for Merseyrail if it has some dual-powered (OHE/3rd Rail) stock.

Merseyrail really needs to make sure that a batch of rolling stock in the not too far distant is electric dual-powered. The difference in price is probably not all that great on a new order. It could easily make the difference between getting the Canada Dock branch to Anfield or losing it to a competitor when Peel decides to run OHE for the dock freight trains to exploit the electrified Chat Moss route to the WCML.

They can definitely have it both ways, Merseyrail can use OHE routes, establish new stations on OHE lines, but other providers cannot use Merseyrail's 3rdRail routes.

[John_142]

There are only two operators that use Merseyrails third Rail Routes and they ar EWS and Freight Liner.

EWS use part of the Southport Line and Freight LInner use part of it aswell to get to the Dcoks at Seafroth and Cannada Dock for EWS.

Northern Occassionaly use part of the Hunts Cross Section of the Southport Line as i was on the Main Line train the other week going to Hunts Cross and it used the third rail route into Hunts Cross as far as the Cross over to Platfrom No 2 probably becuse the Cental Trqains Service was Running Late Behind it.

Also the i know belive that the tunnel on the HUnts Cross platform at Liverpool Central is the Link to the Victoria Tunnel which upto date has never been used.

There where plans back in the early 70's to open it but whre later abanonded so it wouldnt cost mutch or take mutch to open this route.

They dont even have to use the tunnel becasue they can link it from the Junction at Balliol Rd at Bootle and Re-Open Stations Like Breck Rd and Edge Lane etc as Edge Lane Would be grate for the Retail Park as its a bit of a Walk from Broard Green and Wavetree Tec Park.

[Liverpool Lad]

Hello all this is my first post so here goes

liverpool railways and thier tunnels

have done the waterloo and victoria, august this year.

Just done the dingle tunnel

though now its time to bring on the daddy of them all the wapping, the only thing is the two fences you have to get over in which to gain entry.

not only is it hard getting in to the old crown street station site (now a double skin 8ft steel fence)

but they have also decided to put another fence over the entrance to the tunnel itself

so what do you think, should i go for it ?

[oritelad]

wow great that you have done the waterloo tunnel and dingle hope you can upload the photos would love to feature them on my website www.oldliverpoolrailways.tk now the wapping tunnel is the biggest challenge ever i dont know anyone whos been in it for years now i would sujest from experience you are prepared before you go with a wrench to loosen the nuts on the railings if you can jump over and a good flash light and camara and wellies and keep away from the middle of the tunnel as it has drops into and old sewer i think it is or the tunnel that housed the ropes to pull trains in its days andway if you do reach the docks end which splits into 3 tunnels good luck because noone has ever got that far as its badly flooded but with high wellies and lots of bottel you could do it as for gaining entry from the docks end its impossible as 2 of the tunnels have been bricked in and the centre one is used fo buildling materials and the gate is never open now if a freind does not mind being left behind you could drop down in the cutting in upper frederick street with a rope as its not as riskey as the edge hill end but good luck and let us know how you get on dont foregt there are many more tunnels in liverpool taht are disused look at my tunnels page on my site.

[Libertarian]

anyone got any pictures or memories of Exchange Street Station which is now Mercury Court? I'm sure it was quite a station in its day.

[Liverpool Lad]

also whilst out and about today i went back, to have a look at the entrance to the waterloo tunnel (car park whilst sat on the wall there)
and there seems to be more work being done, they have a number of big commercial skips for the old tyres a jcb and a tipper for excavating earth / spoil.

when i walked the length of the tunnel in august this year there were survey pegs in the tunnel, but i have a feeling they are now opening up the entrance once again to faciliate the removal of all the crap in the cutting, but who knows.

me thinks once they have got the crap out the cutting both ends will have raillings put in front of them

while merseytravel and government look at re-opening the old tunnel.

so if anyone wants to walk it, you may only have a few months in which to do so

so long

[Waterways]

anyone got any pictures or memories of Exchange Street Station which is now Mercury Court? I'm sure it was quite a station in its day.

We would use it regularly to go to Southport and Ainsdale Beach. It was big enough indeed. The facade was/is brilliant.

To think Liverpool, had three large rail termini: Lime St, Central, Exchange and maybe four if you include Riverside Station at the Pier Head.

The irony is that Lime St may not be big enough to cope for future traffic, so these stations, or at least one, should have been been put into mothballs.

The end of the either the Waterloo or Wapping Tunnels should be made a terminus, with Merseyrail links, if Lime St can't cope. The infrastructure is there.

[chippie]

Seeing this is the transport section and it,s Rememberence Sunday, (what,s that got to do with it?) I,ve found an old photee of where I worked in Mill Road Hospital when this airship went over... interesting????