YO! Liverpool
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 91 to 96 of 96

Thread: Slavery Streets

  1. #91
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,093
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    I checked the Library index for St James Church and found this extract:
    "The church was not assigned a Parish until 1844". This probably accounts for his burial here, even though he seems to have lived in Town (and married at St Nicholas 1768).
    http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dser...83%20JAM%27%29
    The first naming of Penny Lane, found so far, is the 1840s well after his death ((1799), or that of his eldest son (also James Penny d.1820). The track existed for many decades prior to this date and likely already had a name. As the census was 1841 I'd assume it was Penny Lane prior to this decade.
    A trawl of early newspapers would seem to be the most likely place to find street-name changes and announcements about creating new streets etc. I'd hate to be the one searching for the word 'penny', though.

  2. #92
    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Third rock
    Posts
    1,131
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Good work Marky.

    If there is a name-change notice to 'Penny Lane' in the newspapers (assuming it was actually named after James Penny) then I'd target the years 1799-1807. After 1807 (post-abolition of the slave trade) may have been an unpopular decision given the public mood at the time. Although it wasn't until the Slavery Abolition Act was passed in 1833 that gave all slaves in the British Empire their freedom.

    "Penny" - I'm not volunteering to search either. :-)

    Daz
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."... ... ... Mark Twain.

  3. #93
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    I checked the Library index for St James Church and found this extract:
    "The church was not assigned a Parish until 1844". This probably accounts for his burial here, even though he seems to have lived in Town (and married at St Nicholas 1768).
    http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dser...83%20JAM%27%29
    The first naming of Penny Lane, found so far, is the 1840s well after his death ((1799), or that of his eldest son (also James Penny d.1820).
    A trawl of early newspapers would seem to be the most likely place to find street-name changes and announcements about creating new streets etc. I'd hate to be the one searching for the word 'penny', though.
    Thanks, Marky. I think you are right that a trawl of early newspapers might elucidate the origin of the name "Penny Lane" so thanks for that. A study of land records or records of law cases also might help.

    I have found a few early mentions of the name through Google Books, one of which might bear out my earlier suspicion that there may be a link between Penny Lane and the name Penketh Hall, a local mansion that stood near the junction of Greenbank Road and Smithdown Road:

    "The names of Penny Lane and Penketh bear testimony to conflict, K. pinn-nidh, pinn-keit, both signifying battle-hill. The names of Penketh and Penny are of frequent occurrence on the ordnance survey."

    In: Joseph Boult, F.R.I.B.A., "GLEANINGS IN THE EARLY HISTORY OF LIVERPOOL AND THE NEIGHBOURHOOD," Proceedings of the Liverpool Literary and Philosophical Society, Volume 30, 1876, pp. 153-82 (quote on page 171).

    On the downside, if you look at the rest of the article, Mr Boult might be a bit creative in terms of some of his interpretations of local names, and as far as I know there is no independent verification that a battle took place in the neighborhood of Penny Lane and Penketh Hall. I am also not sure what he means by the designation "K." though elsewhere he uses "AS" which certainly denotes "Anglo Saxon." Look at his discussion of the possible origins of the name "Liverpool" at the top of p. 157 and where he also uses the abbreviation "K."

    Penny Lane is also mentioned in The Times Law Reports, Volume 16, 1900, p. 44, in a law case, Littledale v. Liverpool College heard in the Court of Appeal, 1899, involving "a small strip of land near Toxteth-park, Liverpool":

    "The land in dispute was a narrow strip open at both ends, situate between two fields belonging to a Dr. Solomon, the defendants' predecessor in title, and having hedges the whole length of the strip. The strip led from a public road called Penny-lane to a piece of land belonging to a person named Sinclair and adjoining the two fields above referred to, but separated by them from Penny-lane. In 1843 this piece of land, which was then pasture, was conveyed to the plaintiffs or their predecessor, and it is hereinafter referred to as the plaintiffs' field. The strip of land was grass and was the means of access to the plaintiffs' field from Penny-lane."

    I am assuming the Dr. Solomon in question is the famed Dr. Samuel Solomon (1745–1819) of the Balm of Gilead who owned lands in Kensington and what is now south Liverpool. A grand mausoleum built on his estate in Mossley Hill was later demolished when the land was purchased by the London and North Western Railway Company and the remains of the doctor and his family removed to the Necropolis on West Derby Road.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  4. #94
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    384
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    CG, I also found Boults article and was confused by the 'K'. I now realise it stands for 'Keltic'. Boult was writing in a time when K/Celtic was generally thought to mean Anglo-Saxon or Old English. The K simply means it was the Keltic name for something.

  5. #95
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    3,590
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Thanks, Daz. Yes I somehow thought that might be what he meant.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  6. #96
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,093
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    The 'Pennies lane' link I gave on post No. 80 has an incorrect transcription.
    I checked the 1841 census and it is recorded as PENNIS Lane. The name appears twice, next to Grove Cottage, copies below:



    ADVERTISING






    This site already had Grove Cottage, Pennis Lane, and the Census reference numbers:
    http://yourarchives.nationalarchives...reet_Index_G-K

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 57
    Last Post: 04-27-2011, 12:31 PM
  2. Slavery and Liverpool
    By Kev in forum Kev's Liverpool History and Pictures
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 03-09-2009, 02:02 AM
  3. Slavery and Liverpool
    By Kev in forum Liverpool History and Heritage Discussion
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 03-09-2009, 02:02 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

For daily updates, to support us further or to join in the conversation: Follow us on Twitter @YOLiverpool / Like our Facebook Page: @yoliverpoolpics / Join the Facebook Group: YO! Liverpool Pictures

× Thanks for coming to the web site. Support our future by turning off your Ad-Blocker or consider a donation via PayPal or Credit Card!