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Thread: The Old Dutch Cafe, Smithdown Rd

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    Newbie Bloonose's Avatar
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    Default The Old Dutch Cafe, Smithdown Rd

    Hi all,

    I am the grandaughter of the owners of The Old Dutch Cafe. Betty and Frank owned the cafe from the fifties until 1972 when grandma was too ill to carry on. She died that year and Frank a few short years after. I would be interested in hearing any memories you may have of them or times spent there when the cafe was in it's heyday.

    Thank you
    Donna


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    Member Capo's Avatar
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    Hello, my ggreat uncle had the Capaldi Cafe on 266 smithdown road!
    I dont suppose you have any photo's?

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    Default OLD DUTCH aka DUTCH EDDIE'S

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloonose View Post
    Hi all,

    I am the grandaughter of the owners of The Old Dutch Cafe. Betty and Frank owned the cafe from the fifties until 1972 when grandma was too ill to carry on. She died that year and Frank a few short years after. I would be interested in hearing any memories you may have of them or times spent there when the cafe was in it's heyday.

    Thank you
    Donna
    Hi Donna,

    I and many others in the late 1960's always knew it as "Dutch Eddies" - and it was absolutely brilliant!!

    I'd just migrated from my sister's Li 150 Lambetta [bored out to 200cc] to a 500 Goldie DBD34...!! BIG jump huh! Used to go to the Merseyside Lambretta Club [Edna.....Ahh! Sigh!], and when I got my Goldie I needed to find somewhere else to hang out with like-minded people i.e. petrol heads and speed freaks! Then one night one of the guys at Christchurch roundabout said he'd come across this Rocker/"Greaser" cafe on Smithdown road that had over 100 bikes outside......Nah, he must be dreamin we thought - as in too good to be true!

    Anyway, we went for a ride to have a looksee - and it was like arriving in Heaven...really, it was!! Great juke-box with 100% bikie music, great grub, and I always remember Frank as a great bloke who was always friendly, kept the peace whenever anyone got a bit too boisterous, and also all the great guys who went there.

    I used to be called Mad Angus by my mates, who included Knocker [[whaaaay!] on a Triumph Speed Twin], Justin [time], Jake the Whaler [Ariel Arrow- but ridden like a KAMIKAZE PILOT!], Phil Worseley [Wild man of Borneo!], Little Nick [Nick Bailey - but on a not so little Norton 650SS!], and lots of others.

    If any of you guys are still out there then drop me a line at india39@hotmail.com - you too Donna if you want, and thanks for stirring up very happy memories Donna! How good was Dutch Eddie's! If I won the lottery today I'd buy out whatever is on the site tomorrow and re-open Dutch Eddies.

    Cheers,

    Lawrence [Mad Angus]

    ---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloonose View Post
    Hi all,

    I am the grandaughter of the owners of The Old Dutch Cafe. Betty and Frank owned the cafe from the fifties until 1972 when grandma was too ill to carry on. She died that year and Frank a few short years after. I would be interested in hearing any memories you may have of them or times spent there when the cafe was in it's heyday.

    Thank you
    Donna
    Hi Donna,

    I and many others in the late 1960's always knew it as "Dutch Eddies" - and it was absolutely brilliant!!

    I'd just migrated from my sister's Li 150 Lambetta [bored out to 200cc] to a 500 Goldie DBD34...!! BIG jump huh! Used to go to the Merseyside Lambretta Club [Edna.....Ahh! Sigh!], and when I got my Goldie I needed to find somewhere else to hang out with like-minded people i.e. petrol heads and speed freaks! Then one night one of the guys at Christchurch roundabout said he'd come across this Rocker/"Greaser" cafe on Smithdown road that had over 100 bikes outside......Nah, he must be dreamin we thought - as in too good to be true!

    Anyway, we went for a ride to have a looksee - and it was like arriving in Heaven...really, it was!! Great juke-box with 100% bikie music, great grub, and I always remember Frank as a great bloke who was always friendly, kept the peace whenever anyone got a bit too boisterous, and also all the great guys who went there.

    I used to be called Mad Angus by my mates, who included Knocker [[whaaaay!] on a Triumph Speed Twin], Justin [time], Jake the Whaler [Ariel Arrow- but ridden like a KAMIKAZE PILOT!], Phil Worseley [Wild man of Borneo!], Little Nick [Nick Bailey - but on a not so little Norton 650SS!], and lots of others.

    If any of you guys are still out there then drop me a line at india39@hotmail.com - you too Donna if you want, and thanks for stirring up very happy memories Donna! How good was Dutch Eddie's? If I won the lottery today I'd buy out whatever is on the site tomorrow and re-open Dutch Eddies.

    Cheers,

    Lawrence [Mad Angus]

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    Hi Donna and All-I used to hang around in the Dutch cafe in the early 60's I lived around the corner in Garmoyle road then, I block away from where John and Cynthia Lennon first lived in a bedsit. ( I guess Julian Lennon was concieved there as he was born in Sefton General hospital on Smithdown Rd. (same as me) anyway back to the Dutch cafe, The beatles used to go there and play on the pinball machines in the back room, the same as I did. A lot of motorbike lads used to hang out there too. My Mam used to go mad at me if she found out I'd been in Franks cafe! I was just 15/16 at the time and I favoured the obsolete ( by then) teddy boy style. I had long sideboards and Skin tight jeans. Couldn't afford a Teddyboy suit till I joined the Army, and by then it didn't matter anymore as my lovely hair with the big quiff and the sideboards had been chopped off! It was a very lively scene in that area of Smithdown road in those days. Franks cafe had a jukebox and I remeber an American country record that we used to play a lot -Walk On By -by Leeroy Van Dyke- it was a great song and it was one of Franks personal favourites. I also used to visit Capaldis coffee bar further along Smithdown road near the railway bridge. I did a fair bit of courting in that place and the Capaldi family were great they really got on well with all the local teenagers. I used to go there with a girl who lived around the corner. Happy days!
    Last edited by Fat scouse; 11-02-2010 at 01:13 AM. Reason: forgot the intro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat scouse View Post
    Hi Donna and All-I used to hang around in the Dutch cafe in the early 60's I lived around the corner in Garmoyle road then, I block away from where John and Cynthia Lennon first lived in a bedsit. ( I guess Julian Lennon was concieved there as he was born in Sefton General hospital on Smithdown Rd. (same as me) anyway back to the Dutch cafe, The beatles used to go there and play on the pinball machines in the back room, the same as I did. A lot of motorbike lads used to hang out there too. My Mam used to go mad at me if she found out I'd been in Franks cafe! I was just 15/16 at the time and I favoured the obsolete ( by then) teddy boy style. I had long sideboards and Skin tight jeans. Couldn't afford a Teddyboy suit till I joined the Army, and by then it didn't matter anymore as my lovely hair with the big quiff and the sideboards had been chopped off! It was a very lively scene in that area of Smithdown road in those days. Franks cafe had a jukebox and I remeber an American country record that we used to play a lot -Walk On By -by Leeroy Van Dyke- it was a great song and it was one of Franks personal favourites. I also used to visit Capaldis coffee bar further along Smithdown road near the railway bridge. I did a fair bit of courting in that place and the Capaldi family were great they really got on well with all the local teenagers. I used to go there with a girl who lived around the corner. Happy days!
    Great post. Thanks, Fat scouse. I remember the Old Dutch Cafe from traveling back and forth on the 80 bus to where I lived in Mossley Hill. As I recall, it was light blue... Delft color... and had a cutout (wooden?) picture of a windmill on it. Can anyone come up with a photograph of it?

    Chris
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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    Hello Fat Scouse

    You also forgot to mention that Pete Best worked for Frank and Betty in his post Beatles years.

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    Hi Cuz!
    I have a couple pictures of our Grandmother (Betty) and Frank inside/outside the cafe. Nana visited us once or twice a year in Massachusetts when I was little. I was a young kid, but remember her well. My cousin Donna (creator of this thread) can expand/confirm more details about the following info: but Nana and Frank's plan was to sell the cafe (supposedly, one potential buyer was John Lennon) and then move to the states and live with us, but her Cancer took hold quicker than expected. Nana passed away in the early 70's, the cafe was sold, Frank moved to the US and lived with my family in Massachusetts for a few years (great memories of 'Grampy'). Frank remarried in Massachusetts and passed away a few years later.

    One of the pictures I have may be Pete Best with Nana at the cafe, on the back it just labels a 'peter' in the photo, so I'm not sure....I have posted over at petebest.net to ask Pete if it's him or not. (whatcha think Donna? you've seen the picture, is it him?)

    After I upload, links to the cafe pictures will be posted here shortly. I scanned them hi-res, so they are too big to post on a forum.

    p.s. Hi Donna!
    -Ed Morris

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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_yankee View Post
    Hi Cuz!
    I have a couple pictures of our Grandmother (Betty) and Frank inside/outside the cafe. Nana visited us once or twice a year in Massachusetts when I was little. I was a young kid, but remember her well. My cousin Donna (creator of this thread) can expand/confirm more details about the following info: but Nana and Frank's plan was to sell the cafe (supposedly, one potential buyer was John Lennon) and then move to the states and live with us, but her Cancer took hold quicker than expected. Nana passed away in the early 70's, the cafe was sold, Frank moved to the US and lived with my family in Massachusetts for a few years (great memories of 'Grampy'). Frank remarried in Massachusetts and passed away a few years later.

    One of the pictures I have may be Pete Best with Nana at the cafe, on the back it just labels a 'peter' in the photo, so I'm not sure....I have posted over at petebest.net to ask Pete if it's him or not. (whatcha think Donna? you've seen the picture, is it him?)

    After I upload, links to the cafe pictures will be posted here shortly. I scanned them hi-res, so they are too big to post on a forum.

    p.s. Hi Donna!
    -Ed Morris
    Should that not be..."Hey-hey Donna"?

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    Newbie the_yankee's Avatar
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    pictures of the cafe and Betty Morris (Nana) during 60's:




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    Mossy Mossy's Avatar
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    Brilliant photos Yankee thanks for sharing them with us

    Mossy
    You Can Lead a Horse To Water But You Cant Make Him Drink

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    Came fourth...now what? Oudeis's Avatar
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    I wonder did this cafe have one of those fascinating coke machines;a big white-painted metal box. You ask for a coke, the 'girl' takes a bottle from the shelf and drops it into a slot on top of the box and hey-presto an ice-cold bottle of coke drops into a tray in the front; I thought it was magic.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Smashing photies Yankee.

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    Hi Donna,

    I am a commercial photographer and have been asked by the current owners of 'THE DUTCH CAFE' to produce a framed print of the history of the Cafe and the surrounding shops. It it now hanging up inside the shop that was the Dutch cafe ! It is a bathroom showroom. They have also asked be to make a framed print, detailing the history when Frank and Betty ran the cafe and the Beatles meet there ! It you want to see the print and photos of the shop, now.Let me know. Regards Laurence
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloonose View Post
    Hi all,

    I am the grandaughter of the owners of The Old Dutch Cafe. Betty and Frank owned the cafe from the fifties until 1972 when grandma was too ill to carry on. She died that year and Frank a few short years after. I would be interested in hearing any memories you may have of them or times spent there when the cafe was in it's heyday.

    Thank you
    Donna

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    Newbie the_yankee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlori View Post
    Hi Donna,

    I am a commercial photographer and have been asked by the current owners of 'THE DUTCH CAFE' to produce a framed print of the history of the Cafe and the surrounding shops. It it now hanging up inside the shop that was the Dutch cafe ! It is a bathroom showroom. They have also asked be to make a framed print, detailing the history when Frank and Betty ran the cafe and the Beatles meet there ! It you want to see the print and photos of the shop, now.Let me know. Regards Laurence
    Hi Laurence, I think we'd be very interested in seeing that if it's not too much trouble to scan/post what you have....or you could send to us thru e-mail. Thanks!

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    Hello yankee

    It looks like Laurence (Sirlori) has only ever posted once in this forum, and that was 2 1/2 months ago. He might not see your post. Perhaps someone on the forum could go in and photograph the display or ask the present owners or Laurence to send a copy to post as you say.

    Chris
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    Hi ( and thanks Chris)

    I will be in Liverpool in the next 6 weeks and if Laurence hasn't posted by then I will drop by Smithdown Rd and take some photos for the family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloonose View Post
    Hi ( and thanks Chris)

    I will be in Liverpool in the next 6 weeks and if Laurence hasn't posted by then I will drop by Smithdown Rd and take some photos for the family.
    Wonderful. Thank you, Bloonose.

    Chris
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    good point Chris. Thanks Donna! -Ed

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    Thank you Chrisgeorge. I haven't been on here for a while, don't always have enough time! I passed along Smithdown Rd some years back and recall seeing the Windmill shape still up on the wall above the shop, which was not a cafe any more, I'm more into photography now so I must get down there and get a quick pic.. Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat scouse View Post
    Thank you Chrisgeorge. I haven't been on here for a while, don't always have enough time! I passed along Smithdown Rd some years back and recall seeing the Windmill shape still up on the wall above the shop, which was not a cafe any more, I'm more into photography now so I must get down there and get a quick pic.. Cheers.
    Thanks, Fat scouse. I'll look forward to that.
    Christopher T. George
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    Sorry Oudeis I missed the link when you first posted it- Had a look today and Youtube have taken it down- (copyright probs again!) Many thanks for your trouble anyway! I guess that was a link to Lee Roy Van Dyke, maybe? I still have a jukebox 45 of the record Walk On By, and it is available in various Country compilations. I reckon the singers name must have appealed to Frank at the Dutch cafe.He used to wear it out!

    ---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

    I wasn't into bikes much then (well not the ones with big engines) but I do recall all those bikers at the Dutch cafe. I fell in with one of 'em and he took me on the back of his BSA Super Meteor for a spin. Up to Penny Lane, at 60mph then a quick bomb along Queens drive at 80mph then up the East Lancs to do the proverbial ton towards Rainford, then a quick return. Brilliant-and all with no helmet! thanks for the reminder.

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    Here are two photos I took a couple of weeks ago of the exterior:





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    Great! Thanks!
    Christopher T. George
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_yankee View Post
    Hi Cuz!
    I have a couple pictures of our Grandmother (Betty) and Frank inside/outside the cafe. Nana visited us once or twice a year in Massachusetts when I was little. I was a young kid, but remember her well. My cousin Donna (creator of this thread) can expand/confirm more details about the following info: but Nana and Frank's plan was to sell the cafe (supposedly, one potential buyer was John Lennon) and then move to the states and live with us, but her Cancer took hold quicker than expected. Nana passed away in the early 70's, the cafe was sold, Frank moved to the US and lived with my family in Massachusetts for a few years (great memories of 'Grampy'). Frank remarried in Massachusetts and passed away a few years later.

    One of the pictures I have may be Pete Best with Nana at the cafe, on the back it just labels a 'peter' in the photo, so I'm not sure....I have posted over at petebest.net to ask Pete if it's him or not. (whatcha think Donna? you've seen the picture, is it him?)

    After I upload, links to the cafe pictures will be posted here shortly. I scanned them hi-res, so they are too big to post on a forum.

    p.s. Hi Donna!
    -Ed Morris
    I can well believe that John Lennon could or should have been a prospective buyer for the cafe as he spent a fair bit of pre fame time in there in the early days- Probably the fame caught up with him too quickly and killed the deal. I never really knew who he was back then only that he was a bit older than me and a very stylish feller. Some years later the penny dropped when I started working in the Cotton Exchange and visiting the Cavern for the lunchtime sessions. There he was again the guy and his pals who used to go to the Dutch Cafe, centre stage and belting out "Give Me Money- That's What I Want" Most of the girls were drawn to John then, he stood out from the rest of the group and had loads of Charisma. Cilla Black was the cloakroom girl then and Bob Wooler the owner and DJ. I got on well with the bouncer on the door but can't remember his name. I met him again in the 90's working for a building supplies firm just of Queens Drive near the flyover at Rice lane. ( I was delivering plastic drain pipes then )

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    Hello Donna

    I've just come across this thread and this website and I must admit I am very intrigued to find some discussions on Dutch Eddie's cafe at long last after searching high and low on the internet for any info or stories on it.

    Just to introduce myself: my name is Simon Gong and I was born in Smithdown Road in 1965 and lived at number 294 (which was the old T. Gong Chinese Laundry which my parents owned and worked in for nearly 15 years before moving across the river to Wallasey - where we have been mostly based since.). I have many many fond memories and recollections of my infant life on this road, which is surprising but I really do recall a lot of things whilst living there with my family.

    I was the second youngest of four children all born at Sefton Park General Hospital (which is now Asda!) and my two elder sisters, Susan and Linda used to always take me to this legendary place (The Old Dutch Cafe) when I was but a wee two year old. In 2009, I met up with Kay Jones from Liverpool Museums at the Oomoo Cafe to share recollections and memories of our early infant/childhood lives on Smithdown Road, and Tim Brunsden actually interviewed me (for a short film that will also be featured at this exhibition when it opens in July at the New Museum Of Liverpool) talking about our Laundry whilst I took him on a walk around our Wavertree haunts back in the late 60s. The only problem was, at the time of the filming (February 2010), my recollection of where exactly this seminal Dutch cafe was along Smithdown Road was vague - and yet I completely overlooked the fact that it was where the Bathroom Centre currently stands - marked so obviously by a blue windmill above the frontage. It just goes to show that I wasn't doing my homework properly in failing to do something as simple as just look UPWARDS!!!

    Of course, when you're a toddler like I was, always being taken out on shopping trips with your two big sisters (my younger sister Christina wasn't born until December 1967 - on Christmas Day in fact), distances would always appear to be vast. This might well explain why I always thought the Old Dutch Cafe was further up Smithdown Road going in the Allerton direction than it really was. In fact, where the derelict buildings were near the car-servicing place towards the old Co-op location (now an overgrown piece of shrubland), was where I mistakenly assumed the Cafe once stood.....

    Anyway, having now finally established that it was where it really was (before Dudley Road junction), I can say very emphatically that my sisters used to always frequent that place to pick up some milkshakes and then a couple of ex-juke box vinyl singles of the current hit records of the day. It was thanks to my sisters always taking me to this place to get the records that I became a vinyl addict at the tender age of two (incredible but true!). I can even remember a whole load of the singles we bought from here between 1966 and 1971 which was the last time I passed by the cafe as we'd moved to the Wirral to set up a fish and chip shop business in New Brighton by 1970. For example: Bus Stop, by The Hollies, Mighty Quinn by Manfred Mann (actually the first record I was given for my 2nd birthday!!!), Ha Ha Said The Clown, again by Manfred Mann - they turned out to be my favourite group when I was just two - the Beatles didn't even figure in my young life until Hello Goodbye/Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields came along a little later.... Working In A Coalmine by Lee Dorsey, Monsieur Dupont by Sandie Shaw - I really loved Sandie Shaw even at this tender age!!, Goodnight Midnight by Clodagh Rodgers, (Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher by Jackie Wilson, Fox On The Run by Manfred Mann, River Deep Mountain High by The Supremes and Four Tops, and, the last record I ever got from there: Two Little Boys by Rolf Harris !!!!

    I was also aware of a lot of the bikers who used to congregate outside there, as my sisters would always tell me about "the heavies and hells angels".... but to this day I had never seen any old pictures of the place, until I clicked onto this link which showed some amazingly evocative photos that you and a couple of other contributors put up. All I remembered at that age was the PEPSI signs on the front because they were so prominent!

    During my chat with Tim Brunsden whilst we were filming for the Secret Life Of Smithdown Road exhibition, I had actually put out a request for anybody who had pictures of the old Dutch Eddie's cafe to get them uploaded - but not many had appeared in the ensuing year...until now! This is such an amazingly evocative and nostalgic discussion and I really love nothing more than to hear other people's stories and recollections. In fact I was deeply moved to discover that two of my sisters's best friends back then in the 1960s had added some comments to the four pictures of myself, my parents and my sisters that I contributed to the Facebook page and I will be hoping that our paths might cross come the opening of this exhibition in July as my two sisters Sue and Linda are now very keen to meet up with them - which would be so fantastic as they haven't seen them [thus effectively losing touch with them] for the last 45 years!!!!

    Here's hoping more peeps come on here with their reminiscences of this legendary meeting place on the most legendary of streets in Liverpool. Truly, in my view, Smithy Road is THE multicultural artery of south Liverpool...there really is no other road like it and I feel so honoured to have been born there - even if I did myself only live there for just three or four years.

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