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View Poll Results: Should Liverpool build 'L.A.' type Skyscrapers?

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  • Yes

    14 48.28%
  • No

    15 51.72%
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Thread: Should Liverpool build 'L.A.' type Skyscrapers?

  1. #61
    Newbie IllmaticScouser's Avatar
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    whatever happened to good architecture


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  2. #62
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllmaticScouser View Post
    whatever happened to good architecture
    Open your eyes. Beetham West. the stainless Alexandra Tower, The Wedges, Unity 1 and 2, the new Museum. Even the unique Capital Building, which needs a colourful re-clad to become world-renowned. In London the Ghurkin, etc

    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  3. #63
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I hate glass, its ugly.
    I love it. Liverpool built the world first metal framed glass curtain walled building - 1864. It is of the city - it is ours.

    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  4. #64
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Its still ugly.

    We need better buildings than this rubbish that is going up.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllmaticScouser View Post
    whatever happened to good architecture
    I agree mate. Some real shockers getting built now, pig ugly.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  6. #66
    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    I like Beetham West. Don't like the sandbox, the Echo or the Unity though.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

  7. #67
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    I think the mix of old,and new, look great! Many people from outside the city,that I've met on my travels,think so too! Some "ex-pat's" are sad that we've lost buildings like the sailors home,etc,but think the city appears more dynamic, with the new architecture! I must admit,when the "Cloud" was first suggested,I was horrified,but gave the idea some thought! I considered that it was, the 21st century,and also that other "classic" buildings like the "Liver" building,were criticised,in their time,and decided that if you're going to do it,go for it,....then it was scrapped!

  8. #68
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    That's what I like about our new buildings - they make Liverpool dynamic as you say.

    The new museum I won't judge too much yet until I've been inside to see it. I have a feeling it will be fab inside and the views overlooking the river and waterfront will be great.

    The black buildings are going to be real smart too. I like the wedge looking like a huge liner.

  9. #69
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    I dont think it looks Dynamic? Pig Ugly Yes
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  10. #70
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    That's what I like about our new buildings - they make Liverpool dynamic as you say.
    Spot on the pair of you. Outsiders are impressed. The Shanghai Tower, if and when built at Central Docks, should really add some height and quality. We need a big slam them type of building.The tallest in Europe. One which is world renowned.

    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  11. #71
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I dont think it looks Dynamic? Pig Ugly Yes
    Spike, they're not that bad !!

    I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.

  12. #72
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.
    Without doubt.

    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  13. #73
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    We need a bomb to blow up a few of those ugly buildings that ruin the skyline.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  14. #74
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    Spike, they're not that bad !!

    I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.
    Or the "Royal"hospital!!!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    Spike, they're not that bad !!

    I think something like St Johns precinct is ugly.
    St Johns is ugly I agree, So is the Royal.

    I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked. Heading into town the views of the River are already restricted by these silly looking buildings that look like the Transformer toys the kids have.

    They are building way to much and are blocking some great views. The fantastic view from the Albert Dock across to the three grace's is now blocked by a lump of rubbishAttachment 16147Attachment 16148Attachment 16149 It is shameful.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  16. #76
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    Or the "Royal"hospital!!!
    That is to be replaced.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  17. #77
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked.
    They are not. Liverpool is far from NY. There is only one modern building that could be said to be tall at the waterfront.

    The city needs more and more more height to get the density up, to get the centre more vibrant. Then work out into the inner-city districts. Merseyrail will need extending with tunnels recommissioned to encourage investment - as they did in London's Docklands. The elevated Light-Railway was built first to encourage investment. I doubt Merseyrail will be extended with this bunch of amateurs running the economy.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  18. #78
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Not in my book. Its an eyesore now. I dont want any more of this rubbish.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  19. #79
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Not in my book. Its an eyesore now. I dont want any more of this rubbish.
    Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  20. #80
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    St Johns is ugly I agree, So is the Royal.

    I dont see how cramming the waterfront with silly looking towers is making it look better? The Cathedrals are in danger of being blocked. Heading into town the views of the River are already restricted by these silly looking buildings that look like the Transformer toys the kids have.

    They are building way to much and are blocking some great views. The fantastic view from the Albert Dock across to the three grace's is now blocked by a lump of rubbishAttachment 16147Attachment 16148Attachment 16149 It is shameful.
    Of course I love those views, and our gorgeous old buildings are beautiful and make you feel all cosy and at home I love them and never get tired of seeing them.

    .. but the vibrancy of the new buildings are exciting. I like 'bling' as much as I like old.
    You can have both. I love old Victorian houses (I live in one), but I love snazzy new apartments too. it's nice to have a mixture and a choice.

  21. #81
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.
    or Derby !!

    we got lost in Derby town centre once driving round and around !!

    We used to visit relatives living in the Derby area.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Have you tried living in Nottingham? That should do you.
    No I live in Liverpool unlike yourself. So I would prefer my city not to become a laughing stock.

    Build your towers in Watford.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  23. #83
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    I dont mind NEW Lindy. Its these joke buildings that I object too.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  24. #84
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I dont mind NEW Lindy. Its these joke buildings that I object too.
    must admit, I laughed at your description of the view being blocked by a lump of rubbish !!


    ps,

    there was a similar discussion on breakfast tv this morning - about new buildings v traditional.

  25. #85
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    I dont mind new mixing in with Old. Its when you build massive towers that do not fir in. Its stupid and looks stupid.

    The new Museum fits in well.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  26. #86
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    there was a similar discussion on breakfast tv this morning - about new buildings v traditional.
    What is traditional? The four buildings at the Pier Head. Two are Americanesque, one Italianesque and one Art Deco (which is modern) At Lime St one is classical Greek (3,000 year old design) and the other French Renaissance (looks like a Chattauex)which is 300 year old design. These buildings are heavy and expensive to construct

    Modern materials make it easier and cheaper to construct buildings more on a human scale. The interiors are far superior given large open rooms. Far more flexibility is given when the architect has the right vision. Unfortunately many modern buildings lack attention to street level, which is a human failure, not one of the construction techniques or style.

    The Atlantic Tower, the Capital Building and others were designed for the elevated roadway Shankland plan - which thank God, never came. That is why at street level they are geared for cars. That can be rectified giving vibrancy and animation, but we need the population density in the centre and attractions in to draw people in from all Merseyside. Height gives that.

    We also need Merseyrail extending to cope and enhance the vibrancy. Make it easier for people to get to places of interest and vibrancy in comfort and they will go. I know of people on the Wirral who spend their evenings in Liverpool city centre. They live near Merseyrail stations and it is minutes into the centre.

    It is not modern buildings that was the problem in Liverpool, it was the planning. St. John's market is/was an absolute failure in planning. Another is the Liverpool One complex,which should have had the historical dock under it partial excavated to add value and attraction - water attracts and the historical angle adds much value. Boats cannot enter as the main sewage pipes run down the Dock Rd.

    When Clayton Square was built, the Albert Dock was well under way. Common sense said put it near the water, near a Merseyrail station.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  27. #87
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I dont mind new mixing in with Old. Its when you build massive towers that do not fir in.

    Liverpool does not have massive towers at all. Go to London, Chicago and NY....and even Manchester. Liverpool is pretty well low rise.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  28. #88
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    This could be the impetus to remove the Dock Rd highway from running through Liverpool's city centre and make the city more people friendly.


    The New York Times. Special Report: Business of Green. June 24, 2010

    Watery Future for the City of Light

    By LOUISE LOFTUS -
    NY Times

    PARIS — Murky with pollution after decades of industrial and agricultural dumping, the River Seine, flowing through Paris, was nearly dead in the 1970s.

    Jacques Chirac, then mayor of Paris, started a cleanup campaign in the early 1990s, and by last year Atlantic salmon were reported to have returned to the river — though just this month eating fish from the river was banned because of dangerously high residual levels of polychlorinated biphenyl, a toxic chemical outlawed from industrial use in Europe more than 20 years ago.

    The French environment minister, Jean-Louis Borloo, has set in motion a project to eradicate PCBs from Paris’s waters. Meanwhile, a plan to extend the cleanup from the river to its banks is being pushed by City Hall — part of an ambitious project to lure Parisians back to the river.

    Every Sunday for the past few years, the expressways that border the Seine in central Paris have been closed to cars and opened, instead, to strollers, roller skaters and cyclists.

    In April, the Socialist mayor of Paris, Bertrand DelanoŽ, announced plans to go a step further by permanently closing a 2-kilometer, or 1.2-mile, stretch of the Left Bank and slowing traffic on the Right Bank. The whole area would be transformed into a “pretty urban boulevard,” Mr. DelanoŽ said, with cars and pedestrians coexisting among cafes, flowers and floating islands.

    City Hall planners estimate construction costs at €40 million, or $48.8 million, and maintenance costs at €2 million a year, and say the project could be completed in two years.

    That, however, may depend on the readiness of the center-right French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, and his government to support the plan, since the riverside roads belong to the autonomous Paris Ports Authority, not to City Hall, and traffic management on them is the responsibility of the prefect of Paris, an official appointed by Mr. Sarkozy.

    Mr. Sarkozy himself has other visions for Paris, expressed by the creation in March 2008 of a new government post, secretary of state for the development of the Capital Region, and the announcement last year of a €35 billion metropolitan redevelopment plan covering Paris and the Seine Valley.

    With presidential elections due in 2012 — in which Mr. DelanoŽ may be a Socialist contender — the Seine is on the front line both in the political war and in Mr. DelanoŽ’s battle against what he calls the “unacceptable hegemony” of cars in the capital. Since 2001 he has introduced new trams, bike and bus lanes and the popular Vťlib’ bicycle rental scheme. He is also responsible for the Paris-Plage program, which transforms a section of the riverbank into an urban beach every summer.

    But some Parisians are not convinced. The Seine expressways were built in the 1970s as the linchpin of a program by President Georges Pompidou to turn Paris into “a city for the automobile.” On the Right Bank, the expressway carries 40,000 vehicles per day and 4,000 an hour at peak times, according to City Hall figures. On the Left Bank, the traffic is lighter but still reaches 2,000 vehicles per hour at rush hour.

    According to Mr. DelanoŽ’s office, rerouting traffic away from the riverbanks would increase commute times across the city by only six minutes. But some commuters and taxi drivers warn that congestion in the city, already scarcely tolerable, would be made far worse.

    “This will degrade the quality of life of French workers,” said one message on the mayor’s public consultation Web site. “The lives of people who work during the week will be even more complicated and stressful, and you degrade the working conditions of the inhabitants of őle de France in favor of the ‘idle’ and tourists.”

    Supporters of Mr. DelanoŽ turn that argument on its head. “This is an initiative for all Parisians, and it’s part of a pattern of a larger translation. We are in the midst of a shifting paradigm,” said Eric Britton, an American economist in Paris and founder of NewMobility, a sustainable transport advocacy organization.

    Amenities like rivers and green space must be allowed to once again become the “lungs of the city,” Mr. Britton said. “Cities must plan this way to be global competitors now,” he said. “The time of the car is over, and symbols, like the river, are the new metrics of civilization.”

    The benefits can be not just environmental, but economic too, he said.

    A 2009 study by Walkscore, a Web site that rates neighborhoods in terms of pedestrian access, evaluated the effect of “walkability” on U.S. housing prices, using 95,000 real estate transactions. The study found that making it easier for people to get around on foot raised housing values in 13 out of 15 markets. In some areas, increasing walkability by 25 percent raised house values by as much as $34,000 — with potential spinoff benefits to the public through higher property tax revenues.

    “What we have to make sure of,” Mr. Britton said, “is that there is a proper system of land value capture in place.”

    Todd Litman, a transportation economist and executive director of the Victoria Transport Policy Institute, an independent research organization based in Canada, puts the lesson this way: “Some of the money cities currently spend to increase travel speeds could be spent more efficiently improving the comfort, convenience and security of walking, cycling and public transport.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post

    Liverpool does not massive have towers at all. Go to London, Chicago and NY....and even Manchester. Liverpool is pretty well low rise.
    And thats how it should stay. I thank thee
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  30. #90
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Liverpool should adopt this Mew Mobility Agenda.

    New Mobility's aims can be described as:

    • Providing equity of mobility between those with and without cars, and throughout the urban area
    • Reducing the carbon intensity of urban transport (as a whole)
    • Making use of all the modes of transport at our disposal (including foot, cycle and all means of motorised transport), as well as technological solutions such as teleworking and passenger information
    • Improving the quality of urban life, particularly in terms of the effects of road traffic
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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