I put this in the Liverpool Past>Housing>Ashfield Cottages thread but have just come across your post here, maybe you can help.
When my Granny married in 1887 she was living in Carey St. This was next to Abstinence St. in the area renowned for the poor quality of its health, sanitation and life expectancy. These streets were so bad they were wiped out sometime before 1906 [O.S. map 1906]. They are shown on my "alleged" map of c.1890.
They are shown more clearly on an 1891 map found at toxteth.net [can't do links!!?].
[Maybe I can?!?]
Does anyone have a copy from which they can show me a larger area?
All I said was, it isn't the 1890 OS version (as they show individual buildings as you can see on this one you've requested).
Yours might well be 1890, but I don't think I've seen it before.
Thanks Phil, no offense please. I just wasn't sure about the provenance of the map, the only info given is c.1890, so I guess S&n Genealogy Supplies aren't too sure about the date either. In future I'll refer to it as my 1890 map.
Thanks again for your latest posting.
Are we O.K.??
This is what the cover and the map look like, if it's any help.
It was published by Bacon and based on the OS, which most maps are.
The OS covered Liverpool from the 1840s.
I don't think the Record Office have this particular map.
Would you scan the Dingle area for me, and I might be able to date it reasonably accurately?
I've come to the conclusion that Bacon's used a map, perhaps from the early 1870s (no later), and haven't attempted to do much of an update.
The school in Park Hill Road is shown, but I never managed to find out when it was opened, but thought 1880s.
The following empty sites on the map would later contain the following buildings.
Mount Carmel Church and St Peter's Church, High Park Street (both 1878).
Beaufort Street School (1875).
St Gabriel's Church (1884).
However St Silas Church, High Park Street is also an empty site and that was built in 1865, but St Cleopas Church is shown (built 1867).
So I gave up then!
Maybe you can shed some light on this, though I'm not sure this is the right thread to broach it.
When I was growing up in L,pool my family often referred to Carey St., in various ways, as a euphemism for extreme poverty. I assumed it was a widely held saying, but, Googling it, and down South here, no-one else seems to have heard it used that way. Is it a L,pool thing, or was it just confined to my family — a tradition founded in my Granny's early experiences having lived for some time in Carey St.?
Most were jerry-built and became slums and, eventually, they were all replaced.
Carey Street, as you know, went quite early.
Do a Google for "Court Dwellings", if the expression is new to you.
As you seem to be the "Map Man", do you want a copy my map?
I have the same Burrows map too! How strange.
As an estimate, it could well date from the 1930's as Speke is shown as under-construction as are a few other out-lying districts. To be honest, I havent looked at it for a while; would be great tracking down where Ainsough went if the index wasn't so difficult to understand!
UPDATED 14JUN09 20 images added to Dovecot
Last updated 26ARP09 (Aigburth)
Apologies for the durge in updates!
To answer my own query, after some more research,— "Carey Street" was a recognised euphemism for bankruptcy, and poverty, not often used these days seemingly. It derives from the establishment of the main Bankruptcy Court in Carey Street in London sometime in the mid 1800's. "Carey Street" also became known colloquially known as "***** Street" which was used in the same way.When I was growing up in L,pool my family often referred to Carey St., in various ways, as a euphemism for extreme poverty. I assumed it was a widely held saying, but, Googling it, and down South here, no-one else seems to have heard it used that way. Is it a L,pool thing, or was it just confined to my family — a tradition founded in my Granny's early experiences having lived for some time in Carey St.?
I guess it's just a coincidence that Carey Street happened to be in one of the poorest areas in Liverpool. Obviously my Granny and her family knew what they were talking about!
Why is "***** Street" reproduced with a set of asterisks? It's a perfectly acceptable use of the phrase and surely cannot be interpreted as offensive. Isn't this just a ***** example of PC sensibilities gone mad?
Last edited by joge; 06-21-2007 at 12:42 PM.
As I can't see the 'banned' word, I'll guess you printed...q.u.e.e.r. street? Am I right.
I've heard this phrase in relation to being in financial trouble, but I haven't heard of the phrase 'Carey street'
Yes! You're right Marky. Well interpreted.
Sorry ive been absent a while- Phredd kindly sent me the street atlas, and ive been meaning to scan it and post it on here- and i consistently forget!! I will try and get it done in the near future, it will be of interest to many.
I have a map of the dock estate and River Mersey dated 1946. It lists all the docks, including Garsten and all the depths in the river channels and anchorages. It is printed on very heavy linen type material and is bound in a black hard cover.
Help find Madeleine
The derelict garage at the top-end of Kitchen Street has been demolished and the site is being cleared.
heres a page of the 1928 guide.
Shows the railways and tram routes nicely
I'll scan more if anyone interested