Julia Wallace Murder Case

[RodCrosby]

"But what if Wallace decided not to go up to Menlove Gardens? Or was notified beyond ALL reasonable doubt that there was no such place? Yes, I know the Gardens hadn't been a residential area for long and that is a point. Qualtrough was taking a massive risk in pinning his hopes on Wallace following it all through though... "
There was no risk. Or rather, the only risk was the risk of not being able to carry the plan all the way to execution, due to the non-compliance of Wallace or Julia. In which case we wouldn't be discussing "the Wallace Case" at all, would we?

[Mark R]

"There was no risk. Or rather, the only risk was the risk of not being able to carry the plan all the way to execution, due to the non-compliance of Wallace or Julia. In which case we wouldn't be discussing "the Wallace Case" at all, would we?

To go to the lengths of murder though there IS a risk. Why would Qualtrough put so much faith in a false address when he could have sent Wallace to a genuine address in the same area? He would have had adequate time to do what he had to do in the time Wallace would have travelled to and from Menlove Gardens.

[RodCrosby]

"To go to the lengths of murder though there IS a risk. Why would Qualtrough put so much faith in a false address when he could have sent Wallace to a genuine address in the same area? He would have had adequate time to do what he had to do in the time Wallace would have travelled to and from Menlove Gardens."
I don't think it was conceived as a murder, but as a robbery. The false address bought more time, as they rightly figured Wallace would try at the other Menlove Gardens before giving up. It probably didn't make much difference in reality, but they thought it might, so why not include it the plan? Maybe it was just a personal touch, an extra wind-up for Wallace, part of a jolly jape that was only supposed to end in theft. Let's see if Wallace, the chess giant, can figure out how he's been had...

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

I'm in complete agreement with acrosstheuniverse on this latest thread. Having been raised in a very similiar house(but in Walton),the front living room (THE PARLOUR as it iwas always called) was usually only used for VISITORS. JULIA would only admit someone she knew & unfortunately the idea of an unknown QUALTROUGH being admitted with the idea of robbery just doesnt add up. JULIA knew both PARRY & MARSDEN for CERTAIN & she would willingly have admitterd either or both.....PARRY was QUALTROUGH. AS MARK R points out, would WHW have been so stupid as to make the call to the chess club himself & the fiddle the coins..NO CHANCE!! AS you say, the time factor & lack of ANY blood stains make it impossible for WHW to have done the deed...but I'm more convinced now that he organised it!!
Again I agree completely with MARK R about MURPHY's conclusion....it was much the same as the prosecution came up in 1931..just plain IMPOSSIBLE!! IAN(FJumble)

[Mark R]

It annoys me when people say "They wouldn't do that. There isn't much in it" or "So little to be gained from it." Criminals have and always will commit crimes opportunistically. I read today of a thug that assaulted a 92 year woman and took £30.

Just found a link for it here:

http://www.manchesterwired.co.uk/new...oorstep-attack

[IAN DAVID FRYER]

I think the "Robbery Gone Wrong" theory is a smoke screen.... doubtless encouraged by WHW...especially with the Anfield Burglar on the prowl. I agree of course, as you point out, that awful almost pointless crimes occur daily,especially in the drug crazed minds of modern thugs..but Julia Wallace's murder was no on the spot panic attack.. it was PLANNED!! IAN(FJumble)

[Mark R]

Yes Ian. MacFall said that it was a case of frenzy thereby telling us the obvious but Oliver argued the fact that it was a premeditated act - thereby ruling out an insanity plea due to MacNaughten rules - diminshed responsibility due to it (not that an insanity plea was going to be considered by Wallace). It makes the murder even more chilling to think that someone stood on that corner of Rochester Rd making a telephone call with the intention of carrying out a murder, be it Wallace or Qualtrough...

[Acrosstheuniverse]

Ian, yes that's exactly what I was saying. I'm glad RodCrosby brought it up because I think it can be expanded to eliminate ANY robbery motive. This was clearly a murder plot...robbery doesn't make any sense at all...getting Wallace out of the house doesn't mean Julia would be.

The Qualtrough call rules out stuff like a random robbery, the Anfield housebreaker etc.. IMO. Very clearly a planned murder from the get-go. Now ask yourself who would go to such great lengths to plan something like this?

[RodCrosby]

"because I think it can be expanded to eliminate ANY robbery motive."
Sorry, you've lost me. What can be expanded?

So far, I've seen nothing that is inconsistent with my theory that Parry & A.N. Other cooked up a plan to rob, which went badly wrong. On the contrary it all fits.

[Ged]

Some great posts on here since I last logged in. If Parry wasn't a suspect in laymans minds before, the statements that John Gannon posted up is further evidence but now we must ask, Why didn't the police notice a glaring discrepincy in something we've all noticed - or did they but it didn't fit with their growing notion that it was WHW?

[RodCrosby]

Maybe the police thought they just didn't have enough on Parry that would "stick." I'm not sure Parry could ever have been charged with murder. Perhaps someone with legal knowledge could opine?

[Ged]

Yet they thought that flimsy circumstantial evidence which involved co-ercing a witness to put back his time (Alan Close), Poo pooing John Parkes and Mr Atkinsons account (assuming it did happen) and jiggling about the Anfield Harriers time trials to suit their purpose, not coming up with any motive or account for the lack of bloodstaining on Wallace and MacFall being inept on at least 3 counts would stick. Well it very nearly did due to a possibly prejudiced jury who could have read the papers and had a pre-conceived opinion of Wallace. This despite Justic Wright all but directing them to find WHW not guilty?

[Spike]

I went up to the street for the first time yesterday. I was wondering how Wallace was running from and to the back of the house to gain access when he returned home on the murder night. Seeing how close the entry is to the house has now explained this for me.

Where the phone box was. The 68 bus stops there and goes through to the terminal at Penny Lane roundabout. Was there any tram in 1931 that took this route? if so why did he go the longer route ( 26/27 Sheild road )

[RodCrosby]

Ged, the plod just play the numbers game. Most people are murdered by someone they know, often spouse or other family member. Therefore if a spouse or family member has acted in the remotest way suspiciously, they become suspect #1. Poor Wallace found himself in this position, and the plod simply tailored the evidence to fit their own conclusion.

[lindylou]

I wonder if 29 was a rented property or their own ??
Just wondering if it's been mentioned -- don't feel like trawling through 100 odd pages to find out

It has sometimes been suggested along the way the Wallace may have got fed up of his life with Juila and wanted rid of her so he could live out the rest of his days without her - - well, in that case he could have just walked out of the marriage - done a disappearing act so to speak (and saved himself all the trouble) - It has been done many times before - a spouse escaping a marriage and disappearing.
If the house was their own then maybe Wallace wouldn't walk away from his share of it - but if the house was rented there would be nothing to lose.

Somewhere along the line I saw mention of a possibility that Julia could have been having an affair or even paying someone for, shall we say intimate favours - - no, I can't believe that theory at all. Judging by Julia's appearance - her being a rather antiquated person - and by all accounts having incontinence problems ! I'm sure any kind of premarital hanky panky was unlikey !!
My grandmother told me that Julia was known to be a staid and old fashioned kind of woman - to use my grandmother's turn of phrase, 'antwacky'.

Just a thought .. but poor Julia losing any last bit of dignity by having her undergarments and incontinence discussed by all and sundry.

Poor woman