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Thread: Julia Wallace Murder Case

  1. #766
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Oooh that's a tough choice and here's why for me.


    Did he did the murder himself - Innocent. (timings, alibi and blood)

    Could he have planned it - ?

    Did he have nothing to do with it - Probable.




    So, given that his guilt has to be beyond reasonable doubt for him to be found guilty. I would have to say innocent.


    Re: Menlove Gdns East. I know the lure of commission would be great but it was quite a way out of his district for calling-collecting money. Did he have any other customers this far out that would require all that travelling every time he collected?
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  2. #767

    Default WHO KILLED JULIA Radio City 1981

    Firstly,as this is my first post, can I say that I think WALLACE is 100% innocent & that PARRY was at least R.M.Qualtrough.I have had a lifelong fascination with the case & having read all the 76 pages of the thread,I dug out my tapes of the wonderful RADIO CITY programme from January 1981(at that time 50 years after the murder) Roger Wilkes based his later book
    "WALLACE;The Final Verdict" on the programme. In the most interesting discussion/phone in that followed,its a shame Roger & Jonathan Goodman etc did not realize the significance of the first caller..LESLIE WILLIAMSON(then aged 71)as it was at the WILLIAMSON house PARRY called on the murder night to try to get an invite to LESLIE'S forthcoming 21st birthday party.... & who,in part,gave him his alibi!!! They just thanked him for calling & confirming what they already knew,that PARRY was a conman.unknowingly,missing a great oppurtunity!! The House Manager,Mr Ted Holmes, of the Clubmoor cinema where Lily LLoyd worked also rang in & was a bit vague on the times Miss Lloyd would have been playing,but again agreed that she could not have been with PARRY at the time of the killing,as she would have been at work! Also, amongst the callers was of course Mr Russell Johnston,the grandson of the Johnstons...Now after nearly 80 years ..the case still grips...IAN(FJumble)

  3. #768
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Thanks Ian. A great imput for your first post on the subject. Parry has to be guilt (at least in part) IF we believe John Parkes.
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  4. #769

    Default John Parkes testimony

    Thanks for the response GED! I remember thinking at the time that PARKES testimony sounded far fetched..especially the glove...but having listened to him again recently..I not so sure.The, presumably upstanding, members of the Atkinson family who owned the garage & were interviewed certainly had no doubt he was telling the truth.I noticed one of the earlier posts highlighted the testimony that "he came back to the garage later to see PARKES..WITH ANOTHER CHAP!!"..highly significant...if PARRY was QUALTROUGH & had an accomplice..MARSDEN(?)......IAN(FJumble)

  5. #770
    Senior Member RodCrosby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAN DAVID FRYER View Post
    Firstly,as this is my first post, can I say that I think WALLACE is 100% innocent & that PARRY was at least R.M.Qualtrough.I have had a lifelong fascination with the case & having read all the 76 pages of the thread,I dug out my tapes of the wonderful RADIO CITY programme from January 1981(at that time 50 years after the murder) Roger Wilkes based his later book
    "WALLACE;The Final Verdict" on the programme. In the most interesting discussion/phone in that followed,its a shame Roger & Jonathan Goodman etc did not realize the significance of the first caller..LESLIE WILLIAMSON(then aged 71)as it was at the WILLIAMSON house PARRY called on the murder night to try to get an invite to LESLIE'S forthcoming 21st birthday party.... & who,in part,gave him his alibi!!! They just thanked him for calling & confirming what they already knew,that PARRY was a conman.unknowingly,missing a great oppurtunity!! The House Manager,Mr Ted Holmes, of the Clubmoor cinema where Lily LLoyd worked also rang in & was a bit vague on the times Miss Lloyd would have been playing,but again agreed that she could not have been with PARRY at the time of the killing,as she would have been at work! Also, amongst the callers was of course Mr Russell Johnston,the grandson of the Johnstons...Now after nearly 80 years ..the case still grips...IAN(FJumble)
    Fantasic Ian. I had the tapes, but have lost them!
    Is there any way you could upload them, or get me a copy on CD. I would of course cover any costs.

    I agree with you. Parry was Qualtrough but didn't kill Julia. Here's how it happened...

    Parry had a car. Parry had criminal propensities. Moreover, Parry had demonstrated his criminal propensities extended to cars. (the North John St incident.)

    At the risk of stating the obvious, a car is a very useful tool for a criminal to have. It enables one to move very quickly from one place to another, and is ideally suited for stalking people. Wallace was a particularly easy target to stalk, with his distinctive height and dress, and probable poor eyesight.

    Parry was intimately acquainted with the Wallaces, the layout of their home and Wallace's business methods. Parry was also intimately acquainted with the City Cafe and the North John St area.

    Parry may have borne a grudge against Wallace, or the Prudential or both. In any case, he was aware of the criminal opportunities offered at the Wallace home.

    Parry was accomplished at amateur dramatics, and could plausibly have disguised his voice.

    Parry seemed to have a large circle of friends, and it's possible some of them had criminal propensities similar to his own.

    However, Parry would know (and as it transpired, correctly) that the finger of suspicion would automatically point to him if anything untoward occurred at the Wallace house....

    Therefore, how to achieve his goal of robbing Wallace and the Prudential while ensuring his liberty?

    Parry needed a plan, an accomplice and an alibi....

    THE PLAN
    Parry had cased the Wallace house on many previous occasions during his visits. He knew exactly where the money was kept in the kitchen. He had witnessed Wallace's methodical, plodding dedication to his job. He knew Wallace might fall for a telephone message (in 1931 ownership of a telephone signified wealth. That was something he had learned during his own time working for the Pru. "A telephone call is a great prospect!" all the boys said...)

    He further knew of Wallace's well-publicised chess-matches held at the City Cafe. He had often seen Wallace there, and acknowledged him on the occasions Parry was at the Cafe for his amateur dramatic nights. What better place to leave a spurious telephone message for Wallace? Is it just a co-incidence that the last time Wallace said he saw Parry in the City Cafe was in November 1930, just at the time the chess championship listing was posted up on the board?

    Like most young men with a new car, Parry had travelled far and wide across Liverpool at all hours, exploring its highways and rat-runs. One evening he had wound up in Mossley Hill, and turning his car into Menlove Gardens he had discovered this triangular affair had no Menlove Gardens East. How curious! he remarked to himself, committing the fact to memory.

    Later, this address came to mind as a location to which Wallace might be lured. Parry was meticulous in his planning. How long might it take for Wallace to get there? Parry spent an evening in his car following trams from Belmont Road to Menlove Avenue. He watched them stop at Smithdown Rd, disgorging passengers, who then boarded another tram on to Penny Lane and Menlove Avenue. Nearly 30 minutes! And the same on the way back, don't forget. A whole hour. Throw in the time it would take for Wallace to walk to/from Wolverton Street, and knowing that pettifogging old Wallace would not leave Menlove Gardens or Mossley Hill until he had exhausted all possibilities, and that time would rise to about an hour and a half. Tops, say.

    Plenty of time for someone to screw the Wallace house. But that someone can't be me, for obvious reasons...

    Enter Mr."Z", another wide-boy in Parry's own mould. Parry and "Z" go through the plan several times, while stalking Wallace around Anfield in the car. There he his! the old bugger! What a lark! To see the look on Wallace's miserable face when he realises he's been had.

    Monday 19th January, 1931. 7.00pm Parry and "Z" sit in the car at a vantage point where they can see Wallace heading for the tram. Wallace appears at about 7.14pm. Mr "Z" exits the car and follows Wallace to the tram stop. Perhaps he even boards the tram and follows Wallace all the way to the chess club, just to be sure.

    Parry makes the Qualtrough phone-call to the City Cafe at 7.15. He is nervous, a problem with the call-box and Beattie's non-committal responses lead Parry into a slip. To impress upon Beattie the urgency of his message Parry dreams-up on the spur of the moment "my girl's 21st" [Parry is expecting a formal invitation to a 21st birthday party for "his girl" and himself from Leslie Williamson.] The Anfield exchange logs the call, but the timing is only rough, to the nearest 5 minutes.

    Parry jumps back in his car and makes the 3-minute drive to Missouri Rd, arriving a little after 7.20. Perhaps later that evening Parry travels into Liverpool city centre to rendezvous with "Z", or to observe Wallace leaving the chess club a little after 10 pm. In any event they calculate that Wallace has taken the bait, and go through the final preparations for the following night....

    Tuesday 20th January, 1931. Wallace returns to Wolverton Street a little after 6pm. After tea and scones with Julia, Wallace prepares for his journey to Mossley Hill. The newspaper drops on the mat, and a few minutes later, at around 6.40pm Julia takes in the milk from Alan Close. At around 6.45 Wallace and Julia walk down the back-yard, and Wallace takes his leave, Julia bolting the back-yard gate. Julia commences clearing away the tea things and sits down to read the Liverpool Echo at 7pm....

    She has reached the middle-pages of the paper, when just after 7.15 she hears a faint rapping on the front-door letterbox. Startled, she rises and approaches the front door.

    "Who's there?" she calls.
    "Is Mr. Wallace there?" a voice replies.
    "Who is it?", Julia repeats.
    "I have an appointment with Mr. Wallace. My name is Qualtrough!"
    Julia opens the door.
    "I'm sorry I'm a little early. I take it Mr. Wallace got my message?" says Qualtrough.
    "Yes, but..... I don't understand. I suppose you'd better come in Mr. Qualtrough. There seems to have been a misunderstanding..."

    LATER...

    It is a little after 8.20pm. Richard Gordon Parry looks nervously at his watch. "Well, Mrs. Brine, I'd better be getting off to Lily's now. Thanks for the tea.." Parry leaves 43 Knocklaid Rd and jumps in his car, and realises he needs more cigarrettes. He has been chain-smoking all evening. It is a 40 second journey from Number 43 Knocklaid Rd to the Post Office on Maiden Lane. Another 30 seconds and Parry is off again, up Maiden Lane. He turns left into Townsend Lane. Parry is beaming. "I wouldn't miss this for the world!", he chuckles. "To see the look on that old fool's face, as he trudges back to Wolverton Street. He'll be getting off his tram anytime now. That'll teach you, Wallace, to poke your nose into my affairs!"

    Parry turns left at the Triangle into Lower Breck Road, and left again into the pitch-black darkness of the recreation ground. The journey from the Post Office has taken a little over three minutes...

    "Z" emerges from the shadows and slides into the passenger seat.
    "How did it go?", asks Parry breathlessly, grinning from ear to ear.
    "Z" is tense, his face ashen."Badly..." he tersely replies.
    "How do you mean?" asks Parry.
    "Well, there wasn't much money, and.... she's not as daft or as doddery as you said she was... She smelt a rat, and I...I had to give her a 'tap'...", says "Z".
    "That's a gutter..." Parry replies, the grin disappearing from his face.
    "Listen Parry..." says "Z", "you are in this with me up to your neck. Take me home and.....Get Rid of These!" "Z" pulls out a pair of leather gloves from his pocket, and stuffs them into the compartment in front of him. He simultaneously slips an iron bar from his sleeve on to the footwell floor....
    Celeriter Nil Crede

  6. #771

    Default PARRY theory

    Thanks ROD for response..I have to say that your well thought out theory is more or less what I think happened! Even the very poor police force of 1931 thought PARRY was a likely suspect,even allowing for the fact that Wallace named him as such.His sister claimed that the police investigation of her brother was VERY thorough. PARRY'S statements to the police are clearly full of lies & the fact that he was relying on the Lloyd ladies to support his alibi is surely crucial to police attention focusing entirely on poor WALLACE.....no wonder she tried to retract her statement with Hector Munro some time later! This is clearly an important decision by Miss Lloyd & must have been very important to her..lying to the police in a murder enquiry was a very dangerous & risky action in 1931.I dont really go with "the woman scorned theory"as the entire reason Munro told her to forget it..she was risking jail for no real advantage except salving her troubled conscience.MUNRO,who is actually interviewed on the tape as a very old man-he died a few weeks later-would surely have advised Lily Lloyd of the serious consequences for HER never mind Parry.
    Another point..why did the police move the body? The scene of crime photgraphs(as used for example on the cover of the MURPHY book)do not show the body as it was found...see page 187/188 of GOODMAN-John Johnston in his witness account at the trial ...
    Re TAPES-I'm really not very good with modern technology & a friend was good enough to transfer the tapes onto CD's for me,so I can listen in my car!.I'll see what I can do after the holiday.(IDFryer@aol.com)

  7. #772
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Lily Lloyd wasn't even working at the Clubmoor cinema on the evening of 20th January 1931. If it was Parry and/or Marsden, they left a hell of a lot to chance and the complete faith in Wallace even going to Menlove Gardens...
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  8. #773
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    I enjoyed reading that Rod. Ian, it'd be easier to transfer from cd to another cd than from the tapes again I think.

    Yes, it doesn't have to be Marsden that was in collaboration with Parry. Was Marsden known to Julia? Were Parry and Marsden that friendly?
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  9. #774
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark R View Post
    Lily Lloyd wasn't even working at the Clubmoor cinema on the evening of 20th January 1931. If it was Parry and/or Marsden, they left a hell of a lot to chance and the complete faith in Wallace even going to Menlove Gardens...
    Parry having a car though, it'd help in the stalking of whw process.

    I somehow think the phone call fumble wasn't an accident.

    It was either to make sure the call was traceable as in to finger wallace or it was a ploy by Parry to cheat them out of the cost of the call not even realising it would be traced.

    The 'girls 21st' statement is just too much of a coincidence to me.
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  10. #775
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    I enjoyed reading that Rod. Ian, it'd be easier to transfer from cd to another cd than from the tapes again I think.

    Yes, it doesn't have to be Marsden that was in collaboration with Parry. Was Marsden known to Julia? Were Parry and Marsden that friendly?
    Wallace named both Parry and Marsden (and Stan Young) as three that would be admitted to the house by Julia, so I presume she knew all three.
    I agree Ged. I don't think the phone call was fumbled accidentally. Let us not forget Qualtrough tried getting through at 7.15 - then at 7.17 and was finally connected proper at 7.20. Surely an intelligent Wallace would find the possiblity that the call could be traced? He was of a scientific mind...James Murphy claims that it wasn't common knowledge in 1931 that a call could be traced. But my argument to that is the fact that it WAS traced and I believe anybody with a scientific mind could have an idea it COULD be traced. As I have said before it is almost beyond belief that Wallace would use a callbox so close to his home...
    It is Accomplished

  11. #776
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Nobody in the area said they saw a car in the vicinity or near Wolverton Street though. I know that doesn't mean there wasn't one there but it does suggest that such a vehicle would surely have been noticed by someone in the area. There weren't many cars on the roads in 1931. Certainly not in Wolverton Street.

    Not sure Wallace had poor eyesight. He was never short in his accounts and read quite a bit. Yes, he wore glasses but that doesn't necessarily mean he had poor eyesight.

    The last time Parry was in the Wallace's home was in 1928. Wallace could have changed the layout in the time between and up to January 1931.

    I cannot understand though why Parry/Marsden would rob the takings on a weekly take. It would surely be more benefitial to steal the takings on a 'monthly' round.

    Wallace wasn't a great attender at the chess club. It wasn't definite that he would be there on the 19th January.

    I believe Parry/Marsden would surely leave a proper address for Wallace. They took a ridiculous chance that the whole plan could have been scuppered from the off...All it would have taken was any of the members at the club notifying WHW that no such place existed...Surely they would have given him an actual address? He would have been out of the house for well over an hour - substantial time to steal and murder...

    The call ended no earlier than 7.24...
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  12. #777
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Yes. I would suggest glasses give you near as dammit 20/20 vision - isn't that their very reason.

    But....whoever did send Wallace on that wild goose chase - even if it was himself - did so with a phoney address like it or not.

    I agree the takings wouldn't be as much, also if he had been getting stalked, it would've been noted he was ill and hadn't collected as much as normal that week anyway.

    There was a lot left to chance - unless....there's more to it we don't know about like someone making sure he took the bait.

    If it was Parry or Marsden and they knocked at the house and the plan hadn't worked, it wouldn't be the end of the world (as known acquaintences to both Wallaces to just be calling anyway like they had in the past.)

    I agree - the murder might not have been part of the original plan.
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  13. #778
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    This thread is hotting up again
    havn't got time to read all these latest posts .. will sit and study them later.

  14. #779
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    I think along with Edgar Lustgarten, I must be the worst fence-sitter ever regarding the Wallace Case
    It is Accomplished

  15. #780
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Well you're in good company Mark.
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