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Thread: Julia Wallace Murder Case

  1. #751
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Yes, that photo of Parry is a good one. Goodman had that in his reprinted book in 1987.

    I have to say that we didn't have a yearbook when I went to Lister Drive (or if we did, I never received one ). It was a primary school (age from 5-11)
    That doesn't surprise me that you never heard from the lady again!!

    It is Accomplished

  2. #752

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    Mark, just a thought...if the Anfield Housebreaker was behind it, he must have known much about Wallace...at least enough to know his collection habits and that he would have most money on a Tuesday (or most Tuesdays). And it appears that it is someone that Julia knew reasonably well. This does seem to rule out a lot of people and take away from a "random thief" scenario.

    Tom Slemen's theory always struck me as crackpot nonsense...can't believe JSJ could have done it for numerous reasons. What do you think about that?

  3. #753
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mark R;206880]

    I'm sure the original houses in Pennsylvania and Missouri Roads were demolished. Strange thing is though, the new houses in Pennsylvania are minus number 26. That was the number the Wallace's lived at for a short time:-).
    QUOTE]
    --------------

    did a quick scan through this whole thread last night - it's amazing how this case still generates interest and I'm sure this must be the longest thread we have on a serious topic. 76 pages up to now


    Missouri rd and Pennyslvania rd are mentioned and I remembered I have pics:

    1- Missouri, 2 Pennyslvania -
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  4. #754
    Senior Member underworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acrosstheuniverse View Post
    Okay thanks to both of you. Glad to have some British jargon down!

    Mark, you make some very good points. Have you read Wallace the final Verdict though by Richard Wilkes? There does seem to be a very good case made against Richard Gordon Parry. I am not convinced of the whole of John Parkes testimony...he was an old man who had never come forward and was now doing so on a hospital bed?!? But, some aspects of his story about Parry do ring true. Evn discounting Parkes though the book does raise some points against Parry. I think the author wants you to believe he did it...I am not persuaded he committed the actual murder but I am somewhat persuaded he made the Qualtrough phone call. What are your thoughts about this?

    Again, just wanted to add I haven't seen enough evidence against anyone that I would convict on a jury.
    I have this book. Didn't realise it was worth that sort of money!

  5. #755
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    ''Mark R, you seem to be a very well respected poster here and have a vast knowledge of this case. Why do you find this theory bunk? The fact Wallace pointed the finger at Parry and Marsden doesn't seem strange at all to me. After all, it might stand out if he DIDN'T. He could have told them to have a perfect alibi ready because he would mention them as suspects.''

    Hello Acrossthe universe.

    I agree that Mark is THE MAN.

    I would suggest the only perfect alibi is a real one. If he has a real one then Parry couldn't have done it - but does he have a real one?

    He was late arriving at Lily Lloyds on the night of the murder which she duly noted. Mark, did the police ever take Parry's possible involvement seriously enough to check with Hignetts that he did go there for his accumulator, you would think that possibly WHW defence team would check out all possibilities on all other possible suspects.

    Parkes also mentioned Parry telling him he disposed of an iron down a grid outside a doctors on Priory Road. I wonder?

    Hope i've got those sequence of events on the murder night right Mark. Was it the night of the 19th that Lily Lloyd gave an alibi for Parry then later retracted it when they'd split up - but even that could be because of a woman scorned etc....
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  6. #756
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Acrosstheuniverse:

    Regarding the Johnston theory...I've never been convinced it was them. The idea that they could monitor Wallace's movements and do other things are a possibility but I don't think it was them. The arguments Tom Slemen put forward that Julia was asleep in the front room, putting the heater on to keep warm (whilst she had a cold) is, to me anyway, not likely. Surely she would have been better (and warmer?) in the back kitchen/room were the range was? Or possibly even in bed? If I remember correctly, Slemen stated that Johnston killed her not for the money, but for some item that was in the Wallace house. Slemen alluded to it being something that would be detrimental to Johnston and that Johnston was eager to get his hands on it, whatever it was...I think he also stated that the Johnston's were watching the movements of WHW and Julia on the evening of the 20th January, and that Wallace walked up the entry with Julia. The Johnston's believed that Julia had gone out with Wallace on his errand to Menlove Gardens. this is not consistent with the facts. Wallace said that Julia went to the back door and 'closed the door behind me.' On the other hand if Wallace was guilty, then Julia was dead at this time so she couldn't have been in the yard/entry. It makes no sense that Julia walked up the entry with Wallace. I think maybe that idea arose from Fred Williams (the first policeman on the scene) who claimed that Wallace had said to him that Julia walked down the entry with him. I believe PC Williams misheard (or misconstrued) what Wallace said/meant.
    I think Slemen also claimed that Johnston was the elusive 'Housebreaker'...

    Ged you flatter me!! Murphy claims the police followed up Parry's 'alibis.' I have to say that I never found anything of Parry's statement(s) among the Police Files...The alibi Lily Lloyd gave Parry was for the murder night (20th) Ged. I think she said that he picked her up about 9.00pm at the Clubmoor cinema. You are right of course - he could have been late on the evening before. Lily Lloyd's mother gave Parry an alibi in the fact that he visited her house (7 Missouri Road) at about 7.15 on the 19th. The phone call from Box 1627 was logged at between 7.15-7.24. But Mrs. Lloyd could have been wrong in her testimony. People can get times wrong. Perfect example of this is Sidney Hubert Green's remark that he saw WHW near MG West at about 7.10. This is impossible - Wallace was travelling along Smithdown Road at this time. He alighted on the corner of Menlove Gardens West at 7.20pm...
    Yes, you would think the Wallace defence team would have looked for other possibilities. I think though in all their wisdom, the main thing was getting Wallace off with it more than another theory, but then again, Roland Oliver did make the assumption that it could have been somebody else. One thing I have always found intriguing is the fact that Hubert Moore's daughter Imelda was Parry's fathers' secretary...
    Yes, Parkes' mention of the iron bar...I wonder if it is (still???) there?!!

    Great photos Lindylou. I was in Clubmoor last week. The area still looks very oldie-worldie
    It is Accomplished

  7. #757

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    I have managed to get a pdf of The Murder of Julia Wallace and read thru it today (only had about 15 minutes) but was able to look thru some of the most pertinent parts. I must say while the book is well written and provides a thorough digestion of the case there are clear places where Murphy appears prejudiced to his conclusion and obfuscates facts he must have in order to promote his hypothesis. The timing for the murder he proposes is ridiculous.

  8. #758
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Didn't they nickname the coppers doing the replicated Wallace walk from Wolverton St to the corner of Belmont Rd/West Derby Road the Anfield Harriers or something as they had to run it in the end to make the timings possible.

    Whilst it's true that any murderer could have just done it on the Monday when they knew Wallace would be at the Chess club, if they wanted to frame Wallace, they'd have to make the Qualtrough phone call from Wallaces' local phone box making sure it was traceable (though that could have been accidental and incidental when petty thief 'Parry' tried to con the exchange out of the cost of the call by saying he pressed button 'A' when in fact he'd pressed 'B'.

    Giving him a bum steer as in a none existant address would ensure he was well out of the way for a time.
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  9. #759
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acrosstheuniverse View Post
    I have managed to get a pdf of The Murder of Julia Wallace and read thru it today (only had about 15 minutes) but was able to look thru some of the most pertinent parts. I must say while the book is well written and provides a thorough digestion of the case there are clear places where Murphy appears prejudiced to his conclusion and obfuscates facts he must have in order to promote his hypothesis. The timing for the murder he proposes is ridiculous.
    I have read Murphy's book a few times - he makes some valid and excellent points. There were no traces the bath had been used...also MacFall's and Pierce's idea that Wallace could have avoided blood spatter - this I also believe is a ridiculous assumption...

    Yes Ged. They were christened the 'Anfield Harriers' and also 'Spring-heeled Jacks' I have always thought 'Q' using Box 1627 to be in Wallace's favour. Why he (Wallace) would use a phone in the Anfield area beggars belief. Murphy claims that Wallace had no choice to use it as it was 'dark and isolated' then goes on to say that Wallace couldn't use a call box near the chess club as it would be suspicious if he was seen...This is contradictory. Surely there was more chance of Wallace being recognised in his own area than one less conspicuous with him?
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  10. #760
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Only one word to say to all of that 'Agreed'.

    So then.

    Was it Parry, Marsden, Johnston, the anfield house breaker?

    And if either of the first two - were they in collusion with Wallace?

    Let's narrow it down.
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  11. #761
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Only one word to say to all of that 'Agreed'.

    So then.

    Was it Parry, Marsden, Johnston, the anfield house breaker?

    And if either of the first two - were they in collusion with Wallace?

    Let's narrow it down.
    Or, it could have been any of the 560 people on Wallace's round
    (Jeez, my relatives were amongst that lot and I think Linylou's were as well)
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  12. #762
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    yes, makes you think !!

  13. #763
    Senior Member Mark R's Avatar
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    It always says that Wallace collected in 'Clubmoor' (as he did) but I'm positive his round incorporated some of Anfield as well. My great aunt and grandparents lived in Clarendon Road and I'm sure he collected from them there. I don't think Clarendon was/is in Clubmoor but Anfield...
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  14. #764
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Could always widen it to a few hundred thousand city dwellers or even more if from outside the city but I somehow think our man is amongst my little list
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  15. #765

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    Mark R, yes the timing is insane and I thought of the drains myself...how could he bathe and clean them out with some scientific concoction in that amount of time? Makes no sense.

    Ged, good idea. Mark you are right though that there are numerous possibilities... why don't we just vote on Wallace' guilt or innocence. Guilt could mean he committed the actual murder or was in somehow involved in the murder and its planning. Innocence would mean he was innocent completely of the murder and did not plan it. I realize there is not currently enough evidence to convict so a guilty vote just means you think (higher than 50 percent chance) that he was guilty.

    I vote guilty.

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