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Thread: The great benefactors of Liverpool in the 18th century

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Default The great benefactors of Liverpool in the 18th century

    1772 Infirmary


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    Details from a document showing who the great benefactors of Liverpool were in the 18th century.

    Courtesy LRO.
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    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    A couple of dodgy slave owners on there Kev! Interesting stuff.

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    Senior Member John Doh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieW View Post
    A couple of dodgy slave owners on there Kev! Interesting stuff.
    Can you give more details: who are the dodgy ones?

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    I think he probably means that they were dodgy because they were slave owners. In fact I recognise that 90%+ of the names on that list were slave traders.

    We must get out of this mindset that because Mr. so-and-so was a slave trader he was a brutal and inhumane person. In a hundred years time our descendants may look at us and think that because we let our terminal cancer/alczhiemers patients suffer until death that we are inhumane and brutal. Not the case.

    I'm not saying the slave trade wasn't cruel, brutal and inhumane but it would be terrible to judge these people on one aspect of their lives.

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    Senior Member John Doh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    I think he probably means that they were dodgy because they were slave owners. In fact I recognise that 90%+ of the names on that list were slave traders.

    We must get out of this mindset that because Mr. so-and-so was a slave trader he was a brutal and inhumane person. In a hundred years time our descendants may look at us and think that because we let our terminal cancer/alczhiemers patients suffer until death that we are inhumane and brutal. Not the case.

    I'm not saying the slave trade wasn't cruel, brutal and inhumane but it would be terrible to judge these people on one aspect of their lives.
    OR, perhaps we should be judged too... and probably will be by future generations. Fair point, either way!

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    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doh View Post
    Can you give more details: who are the dodgy ones?
    Earle, Seel, Tarleton. Pay no attention to racist types who would, given another couple of generations, find no fault with anything the likes of Hitler, Himmler, Franco or Mussolini ever got around to. Just because Mr so-and-so thought partook of barbarism doesn't mean to say his followers might not find some excuse for his depravity in another few years.

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    RonnieW, you've forgotten Cunliffe, Goore (somtimes spelt Gore), Deane, Blundell, Blackburne, Knight, Backhouse, Gregson, Williamson, Hollinshead... They all had their fingers in the pie Ronnie.

    I do not know what you mean by 'racist types' and I hope that is a general statement.

    The difference between the slave traders and Hitler et al was that what they did was socially acceptable at the time. They were shaped by their society in the same way we are shaped by ours. It was only much later when leading lights such as Wilberforce and Roscoe tried to change societys outlook for the better.

    I think you'll find that even Hitlers ideas were much criticised in his own time.

    To John Doh... good point mate, perhaps we should be judged, but i'd hate to be the bugger who has to do it!

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Interesting...

    It looks like the entire top level staff changes every year.... Seems bad for continuity.

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    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    RonnieW, you've forgotten Cunliffe, Goore (somtimes spelt Gore), Deane, Blundell, Blackburne, Knight, Backhouse, Gregson, Williamson, Hollinshead... They all had their fingers in the pie Ronnie.

    I do not know what you mean by 'racist types' and I hope that is a general statement.

    The difference between the slave traders and Hitler et al was that what they did was socially acceptable at the time. They were shaped by their society in the same way we are shaped by ours. It was only much later when leading lights such as Wilberforce and Roscoe tried to change societys outlook for the better.

    I think you'll find that even Hitlers ideas were much criticised in his own time.

    To John Doh... good point mate, perhaps we should be judged, but i'd hate to be the bugger who has to do it!
    [Removed]
    Last edited by Kev; 06-09-2010 at 09:47 AM.

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    Quentin_Sharples
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonnieW View Post
    [Removed]
    Rather harsh, RonnieW.

    You've heard of William Roscoe, I suppose?

    The great son of Liverpool.
    Famous anti-slavery man.

    Even so, it didn't stop him going into partnership in the banking business with a slave-trader.
    Last edited by Kev; 06-09-2010 at 09:47 AM.

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    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Sharples View Post
    Rather harsh, RonnieW.

    You've heard of William Roscoe, I suppose?

    The great son of Liverpool.
    Famous anti-slavery man.

    Even so, it didn't stop him going into partnership in the banking business with a slave-trader.

    Raally? Well I never! Who would have thought he would have done that? I suppose someone will tell me that Voltaire had shares in a slave ship soon! I bet I'll find out the ME-109 had parts made by DH or that Blue Circle Cement supplied the Germans in WW1. These Capitalists eh? There's no telling what kind of jape they'll get up to next!

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    I can see your point Ronnie but what a lot of people don't see is who sold the people to th treaders.Arab traders crossed to the coast picking up 'slaves' as they went.West coast people raided the interior for more.Do you hear them getting sl4ged off,being made to say sorry,no.I bet you most of the money people never even saw a slave,it was just business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    RonnieW, you've forgotten Cunliffe, Goore (somtimes spelt Gore), Deane, Blundell, Blackburne, Knight, Backhouse, Gregson, Williamson, Hollinshead... They all had their fingers in the pie Ronnie.

    I do not know what you mean by 'racist types' and I hope that is a general statement.

    The difference between the slave traders and Hitler et al was that what they did was socially acceptable at the time. They were shaped by their society in the same way we are shaped by ours. It was only much later when leading lights such as Wilberforce and Roscoe tried to change societys outlook for the better.

    I think you'll find that even Hitlers ideas were much criticised in his own time.

    To John Doh... good point mate, perhaps we should be judged, but i'd hate to be the bugger who has to do it!
    Just for the record, Hitler was accepted in Germany when he was rounding up the Jews and the general public used to laugh and goad them when they were being taken off to the Transit/Death camps.

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    Senior Member kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underworld View Post
    Just for the record, Hitler was accepted in Germany when he was rounding up the Jews and the general public used to laugh and goad them when they were being taken off to the Transit/Death camps.
    Not by all. There was such a climate of fear that many people took part in the abuse because to not do so would get them reported to the party - which could result in them also being sent to concentration camps.
    There's no doubt though that Nazism allowed the nasty nature of some to be expressed without condemnation.

    Reading a book at the moment called Alone in Berlin, by Hans Fallada. It's a novel but based upon the author's experience of surviving under Hitler during ww2. The author died in 1947.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Not by all. There was such a climate of fear that many people took part in the abuse because to not do so would get them reported to the party - which could result in them also being sent to concentration camps.
    There's no doubt though that Nazism allowed the nasty nature of some to be expressed without condemnation.

    Reading a book at the moment called Alone in Berlin, by Hans Fallada. It's a novel but based upon the author's experience of surviving under Hitler during ww2. The author died in 1947.
    By many!

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    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    It is very hard to judge how many really supported Hitler and his ideas and how many just paid lip service for an easy life. But anyway, this is all beside the point.

    If RonnieW cannot have a decent and adult conversation without resorting to insults and offensive name calling then I don't think i'll be in this thread anymore.

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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