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Thread: Mackenzie's Tomb - Rodney Street

  1. #121
    Senior Member johnreppion's Avatar
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    Very old thread I know but did anyone ever get to the bottom of the original source (or first printed account) of McKenzie being entombed upright with a hand of cards? I always thought it was a Slemen-ism myself.

    That said, it looks like similar rumors seem to accompany other pyramid shaped tombs elsewhere. I wonder why.

    I was told on a walking tour of the area back in Autumn 2007 that the Uni are still supposed to be building on the site but leaving the tombs untouched and keeping some of the old frontage. Don't know how true it is though.


  2. #122

    Default The Chicken or The Egg?

    I'm wondering if this is our old friend 'urban legend', having been inspired by the following:

    'Well, Mr Garrett,' said Mrs Simpson, who had not yet resumed her work, and was looking at the fire thoughtfully, 'I shall tell you the story. You will please keep it to yourself, if you don't mind? Thank you. Now it is just this. I had an old uncle, a Dr Rant. Perhaps you may have heard of him. Not that he was a distinguished man, but from the odd way he chose to be buried.'

    'I rather think I have seen the name in some guidebook.'

    'That would be it,' said Miss Simpson. 'He left directions--horrid old man!--that he was to be put, sitting at a table in his ordinary clothes, in a brick room that he'd had made underground in a field near his house. Of course the country people say he's been seen about there in his old black cloak.'

    M. R. James : 'The Tractate Middoth' 1911

    Case closed?

  3. #123
    Senior Member johnreppion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lierbag View Post
    I'm wondering if this is our old friend 'urban legend', having been inspired by the following:

    'Well, Mr Garrett,' said Mrs Simpson, who had not yet resumed her work, and was looking at the fire thoughtfully, 'I shall tell you the story. You will please keep it to yourself, if you don't mind? Thank you. Now it is just this. I had an old uncle, a Dr Rant. Perhaps you may have heard of him. Not that he was a distinguished man, but from the odd way he chose to be buried.'

    'I rather think I have seen the name in some guidebook.'

    'That would be it,' said Miss Simpson. 'He left directions--horrid old man!--that he was to be put, sitting at a table in his ordinary clothes, in a brick room that he'd had made underground in a field near his house. Of course the country people say he's been seen about there in his old black cloak.'

    M. R. James : 'The Tractate Middoth' 1911

    Case closed?
    A very interesting connection indeed. Cheers lierbag.

  4. #124
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi lierbag and researchwriter

    Such folk tales have a tendency to migrate from one area to another and to morph as they do so. It's often very difficult to determine which came first or exactly how far back the different variations of such a tale go.

    All the best

    Chris
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  5. #125
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by researchwriter View Post
    I was told on a walking tour of the area back in Autumn 2007 that the Uni are still supposed to be building on the site but leaving the tombs untouched and keeping some of the old frontage. Don't know how true it is though.
    I wonder how true this is.
    I don't think they would want a graveyard at the front of any building.
    (Of course I don't want them to touch it!)

    Does anyone know of any ancestors of McKenzie?

  6. #126
    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    I wonder how true this is.
    I don't think they would want a graveyard at the front of any building.
    (Of course I don't want them to touch it!)

    Does anyone know of any ancestors of McKenzie?
    Is it still consecrated ground? If so they wouldn't be able to touch anything.

  7. #127
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    Is it still consecrated ground? If so they wouldn't be able to touch anything.
    In theory!!

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by lierbag View Post
    I'm wondering if this is our old friend 'urban legend', having been inspired by the following:

    'Well, Mr Garrett,' said Mrs Simpson, who had not yet resumed her work, and was looking at the fire thoughtfully, 'I shall tell you the story. You will please keep it to yourself, if you don't mind? Thank you. Now it is just this. I had an old uncle, a Dr Rant. Perhaps you may have heard of him. Not that he was a distinguished man, but from the odd way he chose to be buried.'

    'I rather think I have seen the name in some guidebook.'

    'That would be it,' said Miss Simpson. 'He left directions--horrid old man!--that he was to be put, sitting at a table in his ordinary clothes, in a brick room that he'd had made underground in a field near his house. Of course the country people say he's been seen about there in his old black cloak.'

    M. R. James : 'The Tractate Middoth' 1911

    Case closed?
    I'm pretty sure that both Mad Jack Fuller (referred to upthread) and James Tillie:

    http://www.follytowers.com/pentillie.html

    had entered local legend in Sussex and Cornwall respectively, and been published by the late nineteenth century, before M R James' story was written. Fuller, incidentally, was actually buried in the usual way under the floor of his pyramid.
    Last edited by ghughesarch; 01-21-2008 at 03:10 PM.

  9. #129
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghughesarch View Post
    I'm pretty sure that both Mad Jack Fuller (referred to upthread) and James Tillie:

    http://www.follytowers.com/pentillie.html

    had entered local legend in Sussex and Cornwall respectively, and been published by the late nineteenth century, before M R James' story was written. Fuller, incidentally, was actually buried in the usual way under the floor of his pyramid.
    That's a good point.
    Was it a legal requirement to bury someone "six feet under"?

  10. #130
    DaisyChains
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    Is there any evidence that anybody has tried to look inside the tomb?
    I remember somebody telling me workmen tried to over 10 years ago but it some sort of snag.

  11. #131
    Cadfael
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaisyChains View Post
    Is there any evidence that anybody has tried to look inside the tomb?
    I remember somebody telling me workmen tried to over 10 years ago but it some sort of snag.
    Personally, no one should be allowed - just because it is a fancy tomb doesn't give anyone the right to open it up. I wouldn't like it if it was a family relative and I suppose the rest of us wouldn't either.

  12. #132
    DaisyChains
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    I quite agree!

    I still wonder if there are any living relatives.

  13. #133
    Newbie kellyEvans's Avatar
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    what book is this from? my mate scanned it from a book in kenny library ages ago
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  14. #134
    DaisyChains
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyEvans View Post
    what book is this from? my mate scanned it from a book in kenny library ages ago
    That's interesting!
    I have consulted a Liverpool historian on the ssubject of where this myth originates...hopefully I will be able to report back quite soon.

  15. #135
    Senior Member johnreppion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyEvans View Post
    what book is this from? my mate scanned it from a book in kenny library ages ago
    Very interesting...

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