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Thread: Mackenzie's Tomb - Rodney Street

  1. #61
    MissInformed
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    ooohhh count me in!


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  2. #62
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    ooohhh count me in!
    Bravehearts on Rodney st eh Carrie, or is it just the thought of Chris and i in kilts?
    Simon Harrison

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    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    Its not too far gone yet.......
    LJMU's plans were very good and left the graves where they were. The refurbished/restored building had been planned to be the main ceremonial entrance into the Uni's 'Quad' area behind, so the green area of the graveyard is not needed as public green space and can be left as is. If you look at the white 'library' behind, it is planned with this in mind and the glazed central part of the elevation would act as the link between the 2 buildings. As the inside of the building is empty, the brick walls behind the sandstone facade could be rebuilt easily as there is nothing else of note while the sunday school on the opposite side is in OK condition as far as refurbs go.

  4. #64
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by christy View Post
    Its not too far gone yet.......
    LJMU's plans were very good and left the graves where they were. The refurbished/restored building had been planned to be the main ceremonial entrance into the Uni's 'Quad' area behind, so the green area of the graveyard is not needed as public green space and can be left as is. If you look at the white 'library' behind, it is planned with this in mind and the glazed central part of the elevation would act as the link between the 2 buildings. As the inside of the building is empty, the brick walls behind the sandstone facade could be rebuilt easily as there is nothing else of note while the sunday school on the opposite side is in OK condition as far as refurbs go.
    that's quite encouraging.
    the trouble with me is, that i love old ruined buildings. Touching them at all seems sacrilege to me, but I know it has to be done or they would fall apart altogether!

  5. #65
    Senior Member SteveFaragher's Avatar
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    Default What is the source of the tomb story

    Apart from Tom Slemen and Frank Carlisle and the growth of an urban myth does anyone know of any pre-80's sources of this story. I was watching a tv programme a couple of years ago (I wish I had noted the details) but the church was a long way from liverpool, down south I think and the local church had exactly the same story...i.e. bloke in tomb seated at table with hand of cards

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christy View Post
    Its not too far gone yet.......
    LJMU's plans were very good and left the graves where they were. The refurbished/restored building had been planned to be the main ceremonial entrance into the Uni's 'Quad' area behind, so the green area of the graveyard is not needed as public green space and can be left as is. If you look at the white 'library' behind, it is planned with this in mind and the glazed central part of the elevation would act as the link between the 2 buildings. As the inside of the building is empty, the brick walls behind the sandstone facade could be rebuilt easily as there is nothing else of note while the sunday school on the opposite side is in OK condition as far as refurbs go.
    My understanding is that LJMU no longer has an interest in acquiring this property having reached the conclusion that it has better things to spend its money on than lining Dr Prasad's pockets.

  7. #67
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFaragher View Post
    Apart from Tom Slemen and Frank Carlisle and the growth of an urban myth does anyone know of any pre-80's sources of this story. I was watching a tv programme a couple of years ago (I wish I had noted the details) but the chirch was a long way from liverpool, down south I think and the local church had exactly the same story...i.e. bloke in tomb seated at table with hand of cards
    Tom Slemen is not as early as the 1980s, but it was in the 1980s when "Villages of Liverpool" by Derek Whale came out (but offhand, I can't remember if DW mentions the grave).
    But I think the story of MacKenzies tomb is even earlier than that.
    There's no reason to believe that the story about somebody being buried sitting up is untrue - if you had the money, I'm sure there would have been no problems.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 02-21-2007 at 09:02 AM.

  8. #68
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Tom Slemen is not as early as the 1980s, but it was in the 1980s when "Villages of Liverpool" by Derek Whale came out (but offhand, I can't remember if DW mentions the grave).
    But I think the story of MacKenzies tomb is even earlier than that.
    There's no reason to believe that the story about somebody being buried sitting up is untrue - if you had the money, I'm sure there would have been no problems.
    I too, would love to know the original source for this information

  9. #69
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    I heard he was playing his cards close to his chest though.

  10. #70
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    I heard he was playing his cards close to his chest though.
    does anyone have any joke books they don't want? I think Ged needs em! hehe

  11. #71
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFaragher View Post
    Apart from Tom Slemen and Frank Carlisle and the growth of an urban myth does anyone know of any pre-80's sources of this story. I was watching a tv programme a couple of years ago (I wish I had noted the details) but the church was a long way from liverpool, down south I think and the local church had exactly the same story...i.e. bloke in tomb seated at table with hand of cards
    When I went on the shiverpool tour the other week the guides said all the ghostly locations had been corrobrated by a number of witnesses, in what I saw as a side swipe at Tom Slemen. They took us to this tomb and said that a number of years ago (may have been in the 70s) it was broken into and the tomb had to be resecured, and that police reports described a skeleton slumped forward holding a hand of cards.

  12. #72
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    When I went on the shiverpool tour the other week the guides said all the ghostly locations had been corrobrated by a number of witnesses, in what I saw as a side swipe at Tom Slemen. They took us to this tomb and said that a number of years ago (may have been in the 70s) it was broken into and the tomb had to be resecured, and that police reports described a skeleton slumped forward holding a hand of cards.
    On the face of it, that seems to be proof.
    Unfortunately it's a pity they said he was holding cards - they wouldn't have survived for so long, would they?
    His clothes had rotted, but not the cards?

  13. #73
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    On the face of it, that seems to be proof.
    Unfortunately it's a pity they said he was holding cards - they wouldn't have survived for so long, would they?
    His clothes had rotted, but not the cards?
    that is an excellent point Philip!

  14. #74
    Senior Member AntiPathos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    that is an excellent point Philip!
    Even back then could they not have had a coating of some type ? Modern cards have a plastic/resin coating don't they ?

  15. #75
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    On the face of it, that seems to be proof.
    Unfortunately it's a pity they said he was holding cards - they wouldn't have survived for so long, would they?
    His clothes had rotted, but not the cards?
    Someone did ask if it was a winning hand and was told they had rotted considerably. No clothes were mentioned though.

  16. #76
    Senior Member SteveFaragher's Avatar
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    Default still dubvious about this story

    The tomb break in of the 1970's still sounds a bit of hearsay if you ask me, that shoudl at elast be traceable thorugh the echo I would have thought. The church wasnt derelict then for a start off, did he have a rod up his back to make him sit up,otherwise it would ahve been more of a slump?

    how did his hand keep hold of the cards (they didnt have staple guns then), etc etc, the cards would have been card or linen so they would well have rotten,

    I think it s a great story, yeah its a great "story" but I'd file it under urban myth, i.e. made up embroidered, and then printed in one of TS's books...... thats enough for now Scully...

  17. #77
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    I call a spade a spade but surely in your heart of hearts you must know that as the skin on his fingers rotted away, so the cards would have fell to the floor or am I the only one in the sceptic club (sorry couldn't think of where diamond could fit in there even though the others are bad enough)

  18. #78
    Gerard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    I call a spade a spade but surely in your heart of hearts you must know that as the skin on his fingers rotted away, so the cards would have fell to the floor or am I the only one in the sceptic club (sorry couldn't think of where diamond could fit in there even though the others are bad enough)

    Snap..

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    You're a diamond geezer Gerard mate. I can feel a Max Bygraves song coming on.....

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    Senior Member SteveFaragher's Avatar
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    Default was he playing texas held em?

    when they opened the tomb did he throw his hand in, fold or twist or stick, I think Tom might know the answer....... it couldn have been texsas hold em as he'd lost his grip on life.... who you gonna call "Mythbusters"

  21. #81
    Senior Member knowhowe's Avatar
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    Default that pyramid...

    Here's a picture of the pyramid I took from inside St. Andrew's the morning after the fire that gutted it- was it 1982? (May be a year or two out on that). Whatever, I remember it was pretty hairy in there- big holes in the floor and everything still hot!

    Chester: a Virtual Stroll Around the Walls-
    http://www.chesterwalls.info

    The Liverpool Gallery-
    http://www.chesterwalls.info/gallery/liverpool.html

    The Chester Shop
    http://www.thechestershop.com


    Chester & Liverpool Guided Walks
    http://www.chesterwalls.info/guidedwalks.html

  22. #82
    snoochie boochie
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    Default Pyramid.

    It is actually an ancient moondial containing the corpses of several cats.
    It was built by ancient scouse druids, beards ago.

  23. #83
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoochie boochie View Post
    It is actually an ancient moondial containing the corpses of several cats.
    It was built by ancient scouse druids, beards ago.
    Actually there isn't a dead bloke in there sitting at a table with a winning hand of cards, but the Holy Grail is in there and the Da Vinci Code as well.

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  24. #84
    snoochie boochie
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    Default How so?

    I doubt it chris! Or why would you tell me?? You just want me to open it and come out stinking of dead cats dont'cha!

  25. #85
    theninesisters
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    Personally, I hope it is never opened at all. For all the mystery about it, it's still someone's grave - you wouldn't like it if it was one of your family no matter what the interest was.

    I remember when we found Joseph Williamson's Grave and we were classed as gravediggers - even though were were only after the stone, we didn't lift it at all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona76 View Post
    Personally, I hope it is never opened at all. For all the mystery about it, it's still someone's grave - you wouldn't like it if it was one of your family no matter what the interest was.

    I remember when we found Joseph Williamson's Grave and we were classed as gravediggers - even though were were only after the stone, we didn't lift it at all!
    You probably mean graverobbers don't you, Jona?
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  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    You probably mean graverobbers don't you, Jona?
    Haha did I say that. You know what I mean folks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona76 View Post
    Haha did I say that. You know what I mean folks

    Ermmmmmmm, yes I knew what you meant.. Personaly, I would like to see
    imside just to sort out the mystery once and for all. It is no different to
    walking through catacombs....

  29. #89
    Senior Member steveb's Avatar
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    What year did he die ?...

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    Hi
    have asked before, any idea the year McKenzie died.

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