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Thread: George Kelly Cameo Cinema Murder

  1. #121
    paddy Paddy's Avatar
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    Well by oral account I mean the oral tradition that comes from ordinary Liverpool folk. My Dad knew Kelly and would talk about him after a pint. He always gave me the impression that he had an underlying sympathy for the man. Well my Dad was not a gangster and he only hung about with labourers. He was a ship scaler and a coal man but him and people he knew, all knew George. In the time of the Cameo murder guns where quite rare. Some war surplus firearms were about but gun crime was not common. The creation of the gangster myth was where the Echo came in. The Liverpool public had a picture painted of Kelly as Liverpool?s top under world figure this label created by the Echo went along way to securing a conviction because the public saw him as a very sophisticated criminal. Regards the deal made with Connolly it has always been my understanding that changing his plea would avoid him going to the gallows?I think when people get appeals and walk a shadow often hangs over them. I think that is the case in quite a few celebrated cases. We might also like to believe that it is encouraged.


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    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
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  2. #122
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    Thanks for the explanation Paddy.
    And your dead right about the Echo. But I heard it was Balmer who invented the Little Caesar tag and gave it to the Papers in order to smear Kelly. Did your dad also know Jimmy Skelly and "Johny One" who according to The Cameo Conspiracy book, were Kelly's mates? And did you live around the Bullring?
    Despite what you say about people "walking" from appeals, I think everyone now agrees that, after the Appeal Court's decision, and the lambasting of Balmer by the three judges, that Kelly and Connolly were truly innocent.
    If you havent already done so, You really need to read the Court's official reasons for allowing the appeals.
    I've heard that Balmer also done a carbon copy murder by framing Devlin and Burns 2 years later and that Skelly is doing a book on that case. because those two lads were surely murdered just like Kelly.

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    [QUOTE=Harryboy;166846]Thanks for the explanation Paddy.
    And your dead right about the Echo. But I heard it was Balmer who invented the Little Caesar tag and gave it to the Papers in order to smear Kelly. Did your dad also know Jimmy Skelly and "Johny One" who according to The Cameo Conspiracy book, were Kelly's mates?





    I knew "Johnny the One". We lived up in Croxteth for a while in Masonettes. We lived on the third floor and Johnny and his wife, Annie, lived on the ground. It was only after I lent my brother George Skelly's book, that we realised the connection.

    Johnny the One was known by every one in the area. He died about 10/15 years ago and I know that George Skelly attended his funeral. He was a really funny man, who loved his ale. I wish I'd known about his connection to the Cameo murders, I would have loved to hear his view.

    In another connection, Charles Connolly lived in St Oswalds House, Old Swan up to his death. I don't remember him at all, but a couple of people I know do. He kept himself to himself, and came across as quite miserable. Not surprising really given what he went through.

    Liverpool really is like a small village at times!

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    paddy Paddy's Avatar
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    Default The Gun

    Well about my Dad knowing other townies I cannot answer. My observation was he was laid back. We did not live in the Bully and I was born in 54 in Warwick gardens. As I have said the oral tradition of the account of the Cameo murders has always differed from the official account. The point about the Echo label is important as I feel that people who really knew George were baffled by the account of his supposed notoriety. I hope the Devlin Burns case is investigated. These revelations give people more confidence in the legal system. We should not feel vulnerable about Law and order it is there to protect people. My consistent concern has always been where did the gun come from.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    Well about my Dad knowing other townies I cannot answer. My observation was he was laid back. We did not live in the Bully and I was born in 54 in Warwick gardens. As I have said the oral tradition of the account of the Cameo murders has always differed from the official account. The point about the Echo label is important as I feel that people who really knew George were baffled by the account of his supposed notoriety. I hope the Devlin Burns case is investigated. These revelations give people more confidence in the legal system. We should not feel vulnerable about Law and order it is there to protect people. My consistent concern has always been where did the gun come from.
    I think Whittington-Egan also has some explaining to do about comments he made appertaining to George Kelly in his book "Liverpool Roundabout".

  6. #126
    Captain Kong captain kong's Avatar
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    In another connection, Charles Connolly lived in St Oswalds House, Old Swan up to his death. I don't remember him at all, but a couple of people I know do. He kept himself to himself, and came across as quite miserable. Not surprising really given what he went through. [Burkhilly]

    Charles lived in West Derby at the time of his death, he collapsed and died in ASDA in Norris Green on 18 April 1997.
    I was a friend of Charles for many years.
    Barry Shortall`s Book was not approved by Charles, he didnt want to know about Shortall so Shortall made up what information Charles would not give.
    George Skelly was the only man that Charles trusted and approved of, to investigate and write the book "Cameo Conspiracy"
    Charles was not a miserable man, he had a good sense of humour, but did not like people to take advantage of his "reputation". He was a very private man and you had to prove your good intentions before you became a friend.
    I had several tests to go through, such as searching Preston for Graham, and around Trafford in Manchester for Jackie Dickson, before we became good friends and he was then able to confide in me. he told me all the story.
    At the funeral of George Kelly only George Skelly and myself were stood outside the Cathedral in the rain, we were not allowed in, the security guards kept us out.
    Last edited by captain kong; 03-28-2009 at 10:43 PM.

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    I'm sorry Paddy but you really perplex me. people should not be interested or put any value on the "oral accounts", which is another word for misinformation, rumour, myth and lies. As I've said you really do need to read the judgement of the Court of Appeal. Maybe someone on the forum can give you the link.
    You also say you have read Skelly's book but still wonder where the gun came from.
    Well if you really have read the book you would know exactly where the gun came from. And you would also have known, as I have explained to you, that the police had nothing whatever to do with Connolly;s change of plea.
    As Skelly's book and the Appeal Court tells us, it was due to a legal conspiracy by the lawyers and the judge..

  8. #128
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    Has anyone heard of Shortall since? Maybe he's in hiding with embarassment!

    Captain Kong, did you ever find any trace of Graham or Dickson? Somebody said that Northam owned a car repair garage in Wallasey and had a big house and a loada kids after the Cameo.

    I wonder if the Johnson brothers are still alive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryboy View Post
    I'm sorry Paddy but you really perplex me. people should not be interested or put any value on the "oral accounts", which is another word for misinformation, rumour, myth and lies. As I've said you really do need to read the judgement of the Court of Appeal. Maybe someone on the forum can give you the link.
    You also say you have read Skelly's book but still wonder where the gun came from.
    Well if you really have read the book you would know exactly where the gun came from. And you would also have known, as I have explained to you, that the police had nothing whatever to do with Connolly;s change of plea.
    As Skelly's book and the Appeal Court tells us, it was due to a legal conspiracy by the lawyers and the judge..
    Click on this link and it should show you the appeal notes at the top for Kelly and Connolly. Click on that link and it will take you to the PDF file.



    http://www.ccrc.gov.uk/es/esearch.as...&submit=Search

  10. #130
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    Default scousers

    Well harryboy oral tradtions keep communities alive. However you seem to smug for me perhaps you should write on the Echo if it bothers you that much.The part about the gun I dont understand I hav read the book evenso. Legal doccuments on the case might be interesting but looking into the Devlin Burns case wont give cause for ammendments roll on the oral tradition of scousers.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    Legal doccuments on the case might be interesting but looking into the Devlin Burns case wont give cause for ammendments roll on the oral tradition of scousers.
    How wrong you are matey. You don't know one half of it.

  12. #132
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    Default Well

    I will let you dwell on the other half then!
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    i think if you add up all the facts there is a common denominator between all involved... the boys got screwed... is it true Balmer, at one time, was a prosecutor before becoming a cop? Is it true this story and "Cameo Conspiracy" is finally being made into a feature film?

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    Captain Kong, did you ever find any trace of Graham or Dickson? Somebody said that Northam owned a car repair garage in Wallasey and had a big house and a loada kids after the Cameo.

    I wonder if the Johnson brothers are still alive?
    Famous Scouser

    I searched Preston, for Graham, around his last known address, I went into his pub, White Horse, opposite his old house. When I went in and asked the landlord if he knew him, the pub emptied, the Landlord said they all thought I was a Policeman, so they all left. I had a friend in Age Consern in Preston, she searched all their records and there was no trace of him.
    In Trafford I searched and asked questions in pubs,shops and a Chinese Chippy where she was once known to frequent but again to no avail. she may have died young as she was a consumptive.
    I believe one of the Johnson brothers died a few years ago in a car park in the South of England. I have no idea of the whereabouts of `Stutty` Northern. I should think they will all be dead by now, it is 60 years ago, they wouild all be pushing late 80s to 90 years old by now.

    The connection between the story of Burns and Devlin and the Cameo are very similar.
    There are no plans at the moment to make a film of the case, when you make a film of a true story you have to consider the legal views of the relatives of the people involved. So maybe one day, but not at the moment.
    Last edited by captain kong; 03-29-2009 at 02:00 PM.

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    I'm not smug Paddy, I'm just fed up with the "oral tradition" of Scousers which has been responsible over the years for the gossip, misconceptions, myths and lies about Kelly. e.g. the murder gun was buried in the coffin with his mother. And that Connolly turned Kings evidence. And that the police got Connolly to change his plea. I thought Scousers had moved on from this sort of rubbish, especially when George Skelly, who spent 5 years researching the case to find out the truth for his book, was proved right by the Court of Appeal. I don't think even Famous Scouser would agree with you.
    It was legal documents (not Scouse "oral tradition")which finally cleared Kelly and Connolly. And it's a good job we have people like Skelly and Lou Santangeli who are prepared to spend years to get at the truth, rather than leave it to gossip and rumour. You seem to have been reading the wrong book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain kong View Post
    Captain Kong, did you ever find any trace of Graham or Dickson? Somebody said that Northam owned a car repair garage in Wallasey and had a big house and a loada kids after the Cameo.

    I wonder if the Johnson brothers are still alive?
    Famous Scouser

    I searched Preston, for Graham, around his last known address, I went into his pub, White Horse, opposite his old house. When I went in and asked the landlord if he knew him, the pub emptied, the Landlord said they all thought I was a Policeman, so they all left. I had a friend in Age Consern in Preston, she searched all their records and there was no trace of him.
    In Trafford I searched and asked questions in pubs,shops and a Chinese Chippy where she was once known to frequent but again to no avail. she may have died young as she was a consumptive.
    I believe one of the Johnson brothers died a few years ago in a car park in the South of England. I have no idea of the whereabouts of `Stutty` Northern. I should think they will all be dead by now, it is 60 years ago, they wouild all be pushing late 80s to 90 years old by now.

    The connection between the story of Burns and Devlin and the Cameo are very similar.
    There are no plans at the moment to make a film of the case, when you make a film of a true story you have to consider the legal views of the relatives of the people involved. So maybe one day, but not at the moment.
    There is however a screenplay being written so maybe one day we will see it on the silver screen, but then poetic licence maybe as damaging as good ole "Scouse oral tradition".

    Even if there isn't anyone still alive, relatives would be good to hear from.

  17. #137
    Senior Member burkhilly's Avatar
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    Charles lived in West Derby at the time of his death, he collapsed and died in ASDA in Norris Green on 18 April 1997.
    I was a friend of Charles for many years.
    Barry Shortall`s Book was not approved by Charles, he didnt want to know about Shortall so Shortall made up what information Charles would not give.
    George Skelly was the only man that Charles trusted and approved of, to investigate and write the book "Cameo Conspiracy"
    Charles was not a miserable man, he had a good sense of humour, but did not like people to take advantage of his "reputation". He was a very private man and you had to prove your good intentions before you became a friend.
    I had several tests to go through, such as searching Preston for Graham, and around Trafford in Manchester for Jackie Dickson, before we became good friends and he was then able to confide in me. he told me all the story.
    At the funeral of George Kelly only George Skelly and myself were stood outside the Cathedral in the rain, we were not allowed in, the security guards kept us out.[/QUOTE]




    I didn't know Charles.........and the miserable description was from a teenagers's point of view. Miserable is totally wrong and your description of private man is correct. I didn't mean any offence, so please accept my apologies. The poor man had enough to deal with in his life without me making unfounded comments.

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    I beg to differ I agree that some romancing goes on and that the truth becomes uncertain. However the oral tradition I refer too stems from the perception of false consciousness, and the awareness of suppression. For nearly two decades people in this country believed that the Birmingham six were guilty and also the Guildford four. However on their release perceptions change about how forensic evidence was used. The papers did not report the Irish community belief that the people involved were innocent yet in some quarters it was known. The oral tradition of suppressed people always acknowledges these things regardless of the dominant ideology. How many people in Liverpool believe that Michael Shields is innocent regardless of the official version? So you cannot discount what ordinary people hold as true or perceive as injustice. We could pack out the libraries with swats yet unmanufactured public opinion has to be considered an asset.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Once again Paddy you are wide of the mark. "Uncertainty" and "romancing" is no substitute for the Unvarnished Truth backed up by evidence. Once again, if you had read Skelly's book (which I now seriously doubt) you would know that 99% or the public, including Scousers, believed for years that Kelly and Connolly were guilty. And we now know how wrong they all were!

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    Default Subject form and style

    I feel your inability to read and understand the substance of my comment stultifies the debate. I don't have a limited understanding of false consciousness and I certainly dont mislead.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    [QUOTE=Paddy;166976]I feel your inability to read and understand the substance of my comment stultifies the debate. I don't have a limited understanding of false consciousness and I certainly dont mislead.[/QUOTE]

    Paddy, I do understand only too well what you are doing. You have inverted the argument and used selective cases (e.g. The Guildford 4 and Birmingham6) in order to convince us that the public instinct and conception is more valid than hard legal evidence. But I'm sorry your ploy does not work. The reason being that even in those cases, as in the Cameo case, it was the discovery of new evidence by committed people searching for proof - not bar-room gossips and rumour-mongers- which overturned those convictions. And by the way, I did not accuse you of misleading anyone. I just think your logic and your perceptions are a little opaque.

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    just wondering if it's urban legend or true that Lou Santangeli actually tried to get into the hearins in 1950 but it was full and he couldn't watch the hearings?

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    Default The Ancient Landmark

    Well the thing about all this is that George was hung. He has now been reprieved but when you?re dead, as in shaken off ones mortal coil. You can not collect your personals items and skip down the road to your waiting girlfriend .Legal documents don?t guarantee other transgressions as the law is often abused. I think the legal system in this country is a good one. Having said that I am not writing from Belmarsh prison as a suspected Muslim extremist. Getting back to the topic of oral tradition it would be fair to say that we all take heed in some way or other of differing opinions e.g. What happened to the pig and sausage at Litherland a once famous landmark.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Once again, wide of the mark Paddy. ...."when we have shuffled (not "shaken") off this mortal coil" - Shaksepeare.
    But finito to this. We are obviously on different wavelengths!

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    There was a letter in the Echo last night from George Skelly about the Cameo case. He reckons the daughter and the two nephews, who are behind the latest move for an Inquiry, never campaigned for Kelly's innocence - and I guess he should know because he said he had interviewed them during the research for his book.
    I think, he rightly gave Santangeli the credit for the quashing of the convictions of Kelly and Connolly. And I've heard, on this site i think, that they never even said Thank you to him!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi all

    I received an email recently from George Skelly, author the Cameo Conspiracy, telling me that the screenplay of his version of the Cameo story is now with movie producers, and the film's development is going ahead.

    Emma, knowing that George's father, James Skelly, was a friend of the wrongfully convicted and hanged George Kelly, I am sure that the film portrayal will help to set the record right about what happened at the Cameo theatre and in the aftermath.

    Best regards

    Chris
    Yes you're right, I heard a production is now in full gear... finally!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianLad View Post
    Yes you're right, I heard a production is now in full gear... finally!!!
    No. No production in full gear at all. George Skelly hasnt finished the screenplay yet.

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    I was introduced to Mr Skelly at a reception on the Wirral last week. We had a fascinating talk. He told me he is working all hours of the night on completing his book on the Cranborne Road murder, and simultaneously completing his screenplay of The Cameo Conspiracy. And, at the same time is involved in a lengthy legal process on another miscarriage of justice. When asked by a colleague how he found the time, he just replied, "With great difficulty". I'll bet!

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    What a guy!

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    sorry, just heard producer Colin McKeown was producing a film about it... looking forward to George's film.

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