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Thread: George Kelly Cameo Cinema Murder

  1. #391
    Senior Member burkhilly's Avatar
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    http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=218

    Have you looked at this site? It's great for info on the A6 Murder.

    I can see what you're saying, but personally I don't think there's much of a connection, although I'd never put together the Judge at the A6 murder being the same person who was the prosecuting counsel for the Cameo Murders.

    Fact is that the DNA evidence seems to prove that it was Hanratty who was the murderer and rapist, despite there being loads of evidence he was elsewhere at the time of the murder/rape. Whereby there was absolutely nothing whatsoever that ever linked the Cameo murders to George Kelly and Charles Connolly, only fabricated evidence (proved to be so) and so their conviction was quashed as unsafe - and so it should have been.

  2. #392
    Member Lord Dick's Avatar
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    Burkhilly, I'm surprised you didnt make the connection with Gorman, prosecuting Kelly and Connolly and being the trial judge in the Hanratty case. You've apparently read The Cameo Conspiracy several times, and in that book, the author mentions this fact!
    Incidentally, although Gorman (at the time, the Recorder of Liverpool) was ruthless against Kelly, he was very sympathetic to Hanratty, censuring the jury for coming back numerous times to ask silly questions - and thus prolonging the accused's agony -before finally finding him guilty. I still believe Hanratty was innocent. The DNA findings from Valerie Storey's underwear, was a whitewash. It was several years old and had been contaminated. Also, she had picked out an innocent man at the ID parade before "selecting" Hanratty.

  3. #393
    Senior Member burkhilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dick View Post
    Burkhilly, I still believe Hanratty was innocent. The DNA findings from Valerie Storey's underwear, was a whitewash. It was several years old and had been contaminated. Also, she had picked out an innocent man at the ID parade before "selecting" Hanratty.

    My brain only takes in what is absolutely necessary to understand something - great detective I'd make!

    With regards to Hanratty I too think the DNA evidence could have been contaminated and the way they tested is dodgy............ and my gut feeling is that he was innocent.

    I'm not really a crime buff, but something draws me to the A6 Murder and the Cameo Murders and soon.......the Cranbourne Road Murder.....when George Skelly's book comes out!

  4. #394
    Junior Member DRUFTER's Avatar
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    Default Drufter

    Hi, do you know what the weather was like on that fateful night?
    Was it raining, or foggy? and I know it was 9pm, and March, but how dark was it, and was there a full moon?....I was twelve at the time of this crime, and lived not far from where
    George Kelly lived (I lived just off Crown St), and it always stuck with me, that a man who lived so close to me could be hanged.And be so innocent of said crime.
    I am hoping to finish a picture of the Cinema soon, but for accuracy in capturing the scene
    I need to know what the climate was like that dreadful night.
    Thank You


    ( DRUFTER)

  5. #395
    Member Lord Dick's Avatar
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    Default Cameo Author's Very Entertaining Blog


    Seeing Captain Kong's alert on another thread some time ago about a blog by George Skelly, author of The Cameo Conspiracy, I finally located it simply by typing into Google, "Skellysworld".
    Having previously read Mr Skelly's book, I was pleasantly surprised to discover from his blog what a wide spectrum of other issues he writes about - and in such an entertaining fashion. He is obviously very politically astute and seems to have a wide knowledge of politics. But he can also be humourous and light- hearted. His frequent satirical despatches from Fantasy Island ["formerly Great Britain" ) are very funny but also a sad comment on the state of Britian today.
    A very amusing, entertaining but also very thoughtful Blog.

  6. #396
    Captain Kong captain kong's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=burkhilly;160873]I remember the day of GK's funeral and how cold and wet it was. I didn't go to the cathedral, but knew George Skelly was attending in the hope of being allowed entrance. I also know that he and others outside were barred from entering. It's a real shame that the people responsible for finally clearing GK's name were not allowed to attend.


    Hi does anyone remember the exact date of George Kelly`s Funeral at the Cathedral, I need to know, I was there at the time. The explanation will come out in due course.
    Thanks for any information.
    Brian

  7. #397
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Brian

    It looks like the date of the funeral service at the Metropolitan Cathedral was March 28, 2006.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Thanks for that Chris, I went to the funeral and took photos but I had forgotten the date for them.
    Cheers
    Brian.

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    Newbie ALI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    My dad knew George and when he had a pint he would go on and on about him being hung. Now my dad was never in with the criminals or the hard cases and I think it is a good indication, that the oral tradition that kept George?s memory alive was the unassuming Liverpool folklore. So who really hung George? Public opinion I think played the biggest part. The Liverpool Echo had George labeled from the outset and they created a myth that George was the little Caesar of the underworld. I think those who knew George would have challenged that view, people like my Dad who knew him for who and what he was. Georges biggest crime is it seems was to be a smart dresser. I think the book I read in Liverpool Central library sums it all up. The night before they hung him his dad had the last words with him and he said to George ?did you do it lad? and George said ?NO? that?s good enough for me and most Liverpool people.
    my mum was with kellys dad on this final visit

  10. #400
    Senior Member burkhilly's Avatar
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    Tell us more Ali. Please!

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    Hi
    slightly off topic, and I have asked before, without success.
    I need to find out the burial info,ie, cemetery,section and plot
    of both Leonard Thomas and John Bernard Catterall. I have trawled
    the net but all it comes up with is mainly about the Cameo murders
    centered on George, so a little help would be appreciated

    Ta

    Steve

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    Senior Member underworld's Avatar
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    From memory, both the Manager and Assistant Manager were from other parts of the country. It may be that they are not buried here.
    On another matter, I checked out George Kellys grave a few months back and it has been re vamped wit coloured stone and proper edging but still no grave stone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by underworld View Post
    From memory, both the Manager and Assistant Manager were from other parts of the country. It may be that they are not buried here.
    On another matter, I checked out George Kellys grave a few months back and it has been re vamped wit coloured stone and proper edging but still no grave stone.
    OK, thanks for the info. Will pop into Allerton when weather improves.
    It is possible that they, as you say, are buried elswere. Will search ancestry
    and see what I come up with as regards were they were born. Looking at
    the death certs the PM,s were done at 126 smithdown road, which of course
    is the hospital., and the certs are dated 1st April 1950

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    my mum is colleen dutton

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    Senior Member underworld's Avatar
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    Im interested in what George told your mum Ali.

    ---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by steveb View Post
    OK, thanks for the info. Will pop into Allerton when weather improves.
    It is possible that they, as you say, are buried elswere. Will search ancestry
    and see what I come up with as regards were they were born. Looking at
    the death certs the PM,s were done at 126 smithdown road, which of course
    is the hospital., and the certs are dated 1st April 1950
    Peterborough sticks in my mind for some reason. See Chris at Allerton. I'm sure he will find them if they were buried here.

  16. #406
    Senior Member steveb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underworld View Post
    Im interested in what George told your mum Ali.

    ---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------



    Peterborough sticks in my mind for some reason. See Chris at Allerton. I'm sure he will find them if they were buried here.
    Yes I know the guys at allerton, so will ask. Did a search on ancestry for catterall,s birth in about
    1920, it came up Grimsby, there are a few possibles for Thomas born around 1906 mostly around
    manchester, will keep digging, scuse the pun :-)



    Steve

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    Yes Grimsby. That rings a bell too. And one of them had the DSO medal Steve.

    I'd like to know where they are buried too.

    Alice Rimmer (Cranborne Road murder) is buried at Allerton too. Right at the back to the right by the railway sidings and near Hillfoot.

  18. #408
    Senior Member steveb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underworld View Post
    Yes Grimsby. That rings a bell too. And one of them had the DSO medal Steve.

    I'd like to know where they are buried too.

    Alice Rimmer (Cranborne Road murder) is buried at Allerton too. Right at the back to the right by the railway sidings and near Hillfoot.
    OK, Allerton have no records of them, LRO will have a look for 10, anyone know what
    religion they were. I have asked the guy who runs the toxteth cem site if they are there
    Maybe, as Sefton gen hossy was next door

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveb View Post
    OK, Allerton have no records of them, LRO will have a look for 10, anyone know what
    religion they were. I have asked the guy who runs the toxteth cem site if they are there
    Maybe, as Sefton gen hossy was next door
    For what it's worth I did search the on-line list of burials in the Toxteth Cemetery with no result, although I suppose that listing might not be exhaustive.
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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    Senior Member steveb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    For what it's worth I did search the on-line list of burials in the Toxteth Cemetery with no result, although I suppose that listing might not be exhaustive.
    Yes I did that as well, don't think it covers 1950, does it ?

  21. #411
    Senior Member underworld's Avatar
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    The Liverpool Echo said

    John B Catterall - Assistant manager aged 25 of Hampstead Road Fairfield Liverpool was demobbed from the navy 2 months ago. He came to the city from Grimsby as trainee manager at the Cameo. He had a fine naval record having been torpedoed 3 times. He leaves a young widow.

    Unfortunalety there is a hole in the echo page on the microfilm where the report of Mr Thomas would have been. Hope that helps Steve but it probably wont.

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by underworld View Post
    The Liverpool Echo said

    John B Catterall - Assistant manager aged 25 of Hampstead Road Fairfield Liverpool was demobbed from the navy 2 months ago. He came to the city from Grimsby as trainee manager at the Cameo. He had a fine naval record having been torpedoed 3 times. He leaves a young widow.

    Unfortunalety there is a hole in the echo page on the microfilm where the report of Mr Thomas would have been. Hope that helps Steve but it probably wont.
    Many thanks, at least I got Grimsby right. I will keep looking. It amazes me
    just how little info there is on victims..

  23. #413
    Member Lord Dick's Avatar
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    One or other was buried at Yewtree cemetery. But I can't recall if it was Mr Thomas nor Mr Catteral.
    Other info could probably be obtained from Mr Thomas's brother who is apparently still alive and living on Merseyside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dick View Post
    One or other was buried at Yewtree cemetery. But I can't recall if it was Mr Thomas nor Mr Catteral.
    Other info could probably be obtained from Mr Thomas's brother who is apparently still alive and living on Merseyside.
    Thanks for info, I will have a chat to my contact

  25. #415
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    The long awaited new book, `THE CAMEO CONSPIRACY`is coming on sale in July by George Skelly printed by the prestigious Waterside Press. It is over 400 pages and is updated and includes the successful Appeal Court Ruling in London.
    Also another NEW book by George , `Murderers or Martyrs` will be on sale in October. again published by the Waterside Press, This is the one about Burns and Devlin and the Cranbourne Road Murder. and how again they were set up by Inspector Balmer.


    ADVERTISING




    Just thought you would like to know.
    Cheers
    Brian

  26. #416
    Senior Member burkhilly's Avatar
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    Thanks Brian. I'm really looking forward to the book on Cranbourne Road.

  27. #417
    Member Lord Dick's Avatar
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    Yes, I've seen on various websites, adverts for Skelly's new version of The Cameo Conspiracy. There must be quite a lot of exrtra material in it including, as Kong says, the successful appeal, because it is priced at 19.50. Quite a lot for a paperback! But maybe it's targeted at academics, lawyers etc. because I understand it is now required reading in universities and law schools, and among barristers. Mr Skelly's new book on the Cranborne Road murder - Murderers Or Martyrs - is even more expensive - 25.00. I think this might have something to do with the fact that his reputation as a true crime writer and campaigner against injustice is now becoming world-wide, but also because, I heard somewhere that he has also referred this case to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, with a view to having the convictions of Devlin and Burns overturned by the Court of Appeal. So maybe the new book contains all the detals of this too.

  28. #418
    Senior Member Brian-P's Avatar
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    I read the Cameo Conspiracy many years ago. It is one of the best researched books I have ever read. It is also one of the most frustrating saddest books I have ever read. Frustrating due to the 'powers that be' giving little or no importance to the life of a fellow man.
    Can I ask some of our learned members...was it common to have a retrial so soon after the original? Also, was it normal to have an execution so soon after the verdict?
    May I also say that some of my family had 'dealings' with Balmer and they have told me he was a very nasty man with a very dodgy reputation that most people in town knew of.
    Finally, why was nothing mentioned in court about his dalliances with Doris O'Malley? Or did that not come out till afterwards? Surely some of Kelly's mates would of heard about these 'meetings'.

  29. #419
    Captain Kong captain kong's Avatar
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    The big problem in the 40s and early 50s if the Police arrested anyone for a crime and it was in the papers then a man was automatically believed to be guilty, or why would he have been arrested???
    The man would have to prove his innocence and not `Innocent until proven guilty`.
    This was not the law, just the way it was in those days. People believed the Police and the News papers, `always` told the truth, so the MAN must be GUILTY.

    People are more sceptical these days,

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    The new expanded version of The Cameo Conspiracy will be released in 2 weeks. It contains much more additional material, including the succesful 2003 appeals and photos. It also has a new cover, a list of chapter headings and a full index. (see website, Waterside Press). It is a much more polished and professional version.
    HOPE YOU ALL BUY THIS MASTERPIECE of Liverpool History.
    Cheers
    Brian.

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