Charles lived in West Derby at the time of his death, he collapsed and died in ASDA in Norris Green on 18 April 1997.
I was a friend of Charles for many years.
Barry Shortall`s Book was not approved by Charles, he didnt want to know about Shortall so Shortall made up what information Charles would not give.
George Skelly was the only man that Charles trusted and approved of, to investigate and write the book "Cameo Conspiracy"
Charles was not a miserable man, he had a good sense of humour, but did not like people to take advantage of his "reputation". He was a very private man and you had to prove your good intentions before you became a friend.
I had several tests to go through, such as searching Preston for Graham, and around Trafford in Manchester for Jackie Dickson, before we became good friends and he was then able to confide in me. he told me all the story.
At the funeral of George Kelly only George Skelly and myself were stood outside the Cathedral in the rain, we were not allowed in, the security guards kept us out.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know Charles.........and the miserable description was from a teenagers's point of view. Miserable is totally wrong and your description of private man is correct. I didn't mean any offence, so please accept my apologies. The poor man had enough to deal with in his life without me making unfounded comments.
I beg to differ I agree that some romancing goes on and that the truth becomes uncertain. However the oral tradition I refer too stems from the perception of false consciousness, and the awareness of suppression. For nearly two decades people in this country believed that the Birmingham six were guilty and also the Guildford four. However on their release perceptions change about how forensic evidence was used. The papers did not report the Irish community belief that the people involved were innocent yet in some quarters it was known. The oral tradition of suppressed people always acknowledges these things regardless of the dominant ideology. How many people in Liverpool believe that Michael Shields is innocent regardless of the official version? So you cannot discount what ordinary people hold as true or perceive as injustice. We could pack out the libraries with swats yet unmanufactured public opinion has to be considered an asset.
Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Dylan Thomas
Once again Paddy you are wide of the mark. "Uncertainty" and "romancing" is no substitute for the Unvarnished Truth backed up by evidence. Once again, if you had read Skelly's book (which I now seriously doubt) you would know that 99% or the public, including Scousers, believed for years that Kelly and Connolly were guilty. And we now know how wrong they all were!
I feel your inability to read and understand the substance of my comment stultifies the debate. I don't have a limited understanding of false consciousness and I certainly dont mislead.
Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Dylan Thomas
[QUOTE=Paddy;166976]I feel your inability to read and understand the substance of my comment stultifies the debate. I don't have a limited understanding of false consciousness and I certainly dont mislead.[/QUOTE]
Paddy, I do understand only too well what you are doing. You have inverted the argument and used selective cases (e.g. The Guildford 4 and Birmingham6) in order to convince us that the public instinct and conception is more valid than hard legal evidence. But I'm sorry your ploy does not work. The reason being that even in those cases, as in the Cameo case, it was the discovery of new evidence by committed people searching for proof - not bar-room gossips and rumour-mongers- which overturned those convictions. And by the way, I did not accuse you of misleading anyone. I just think your logic and your perceptions are a little opaque.
just wondering if it's urban legend or true that Lou Santangeli actually tried to get into the hearins in 1950 but it was full and he couldn't watch the hearings?
Well the thing about all this is that George was hung. He has now been reprieved but when you?re dead, as in shaken off ones mortal coil. You can not collect your personals items and skip down the road to your waiting girlfriend .Legal documents don?t guarantee other transgressions as the law is often abused. I think the legal system in this country is a good one. Having said that I am not writing from Belmarsh prison as a suspected Muslim extremist. Getting back to the topic of oral tradition it would be fair to say that we all take heed in some way or other of differing opinions e.g. What happened to the pig and sausage at Litherland a once famous landmark.
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Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Dylan Thomas
Once again, wide of the mark Paddy. ...."when we have shuffled (not "shaken") off this mortal coil" - Shaksepeare.
But finito to this. We are obviously on different wavelengths!
There was a letter in the Echo last night from George Skelly about the Cameo case. He reckons the daughter and the two nephews, who are behind the latest move for an Inquiry, never campaigned for Kelly's innocence - and I guess he should know because he said he had interviewed them during the research for his book.
I think, he rightly gave Santangeli the credit for the quashing of the convictions of Kelly and Connolly. And I've heard, on this site i think, that they never even said Thank you to him!
I was introduced to Mr Skelly at a reception on the Wirral last week. We had a fascinating talk. He told me he is working all hours of the night on completing his book on the Cranborne Road murder, and simultaneously completing his screenplay of The Cameo Conspiracy. And, at the same time is involved in a lengthy legal process on another miscarriage of justice. When asked by a colleague how he found the time, he just replied, "With great difficulty". I'll bet!
sorry, just heard producer Colin McKeown was producing a film about it... looking forward to George's film.
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