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Thread: Orange Parade, London Road 1969

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    Senior Member Colin Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Default Orange Parade, London Road 1969

    I had never come across the annual Orange marches until I came to Liverpool. My first experience was when I worked in Seel Street in 1974 and heard an incredible thumping of drums and the wail of bagpipes. Rushing up to Berry Street, I was mesmerised by a long procession of pipers, drummers, baton carriers [...]

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    Pennylane
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    The Orange Lodge was nothing unusual where i lived , they still marched in the 80's and still do today , sectarianism seems strange to an outsider , by outsider i mean someone who wasn't brought up with it . i was brought up with it all my life .. I was Catholic my friends were in the Orange Lodge , every Sunday or every other Sunday we'd cease to be mates , and call each other terrible names , they would paint obcenties on our Church doors , mostly it was LOL that stood for Loyal Orange Lodge , we'd call them Orange King Billy Ba$tards !
    My mother had a huge statue of Our Lady that got displayed in the window , overlooking the square where the Lodge gathered for their march , as they were coming through the tenements my mum would stand on our landing with her medal on a chain hanging over the landing ..
    The 12th or July was the worse , the tension was terrible , our next door neighbour who was prostestant , told my dad that Catholics robbed the houses of protestants while they were all in Southport , i remember my Mother fuming at this remark !
    Anyway the 12th came , and i will never forget our neighbours T.V. and furniture all crammed into our living room , he was ranting and raving when he come home from Southport , he knocked at our flat and was telling my mum , when my dad went to see him ..
    He said ' here you are lad , a Catholic was minding them for you in case you were burgled ' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I'm not sure what happened after that , i was only a kid , but the neighbour never made anymore anti Catholic remarks after that ...

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    Senior Member Colin Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Great story! I was shocked by some of the graffiti when I arrrived in 1970 - slogans painted on walls denouncing the Pope (Down with Popery) and Catholic ones proclaiming him (including one on the walls of the Met Cathedral - 'God Bless the Pope'). As you say, all rather strange to an outsider.

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    Pennylane
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    It still happens today Colin , My girls don't know what i'm talking about when i tell them these stories , i stopped it with my kids , but some don't and it becomes generational , like in Northern Ireland , they kids are taught hatred from an early age . If the parents don't stop it , who will ? Although things have improved greatly , it does still exist .

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    It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!

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    Pennylane
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!
    Oh no Steve , I worked very hard bringing my kids up to know that creed.. colour.. rich or poor , we are all human beings , and should respect each other .. They can't comprehend religous or racial hatered at all , it has to stop with the kids , it can't be generational .....

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    Woodstock Gardens with thanks to Bernard Fallon.




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    Taken by Harry Ainscough - owned by the LRO.






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    Let's hope we never get back to bottles getting lobbed on London Road. We'd see the lodge going along Netherfield Road from our classroom windows on Prince Edwin Street. Drunkeness down by Exchange Station after getting back from Southport. I remember one person missing that big pole they'd throw up in the air. As far as I was concerned, it was just a band, I loved the scotchies, didn't know the significance, probably the best way. My mam would say' You stay away from that Tugboat tonight' - I never did, she thought there'd be trouble but it was our patch where our gang drank so we were ok.

    Still took my kids to watch them if we chanced upon them while up at Everton Park - just a band to them too. Mind you, did curse them once when stuck in traffic on Moss Street for about half an hour.
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    i worked in the telephone managers office in derby house 1968/9, my big mate was king billy mad, anyway gets to the 12th and he says come with me lunchtime for a great time and free food, the lot, he takes me to central station ( i think ) to see the orange lodge off to southport, fantastic, what a great time and free scram, told my mam when i got home and she went mental, Irish catholic family?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    I have no time for this Irish organisation, the Orange Order, in any way shape or form. They are based on hate - they hate Catholics. It is working class. The educated, intelligent, middles cases of Liverpool wanted nothing to do with them, and they never operated in middle class districts.

    I have no time for people who hate others, be they Catholic, Muslim, or whatever.

    Big business in Liverpool silently encouraged it to keep the working class split - divide and rule.

    If an organisation decided to march in the streets who hated Muslims and shouted obscenities outside mosques they would be banned from marching. So why does this band of Catholic haters, who would shout obscenities when passing Catholic churches and schools be allowed to march?

    This Irish outfit has no place in modern Liverpool. If they feel so much about this organisation of hate then they should go to Ulster with the rest of the idiots.

    They should not be prominent in our history - only worthy of the odd mention, because they did and do actually embarrassingly exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Wilkinson View Post
    Great story! I was shocked by some of the graffiti when I arrrived in 1970 - slogans painted on walls denouncing the Pope (Down with Popery)
    The antagonists were the protestants - bigots. Coming from the south end we never saw much of it. It was mainly in the north end. The Dingle Orange Lodge had a police Land Rover in the front with police all along its march in case of trouble. If this march was such a threat to the breach of peace, the police's main concern is keeping this, it should not have been allowed to march.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    It's gone pretty quiet now,but there's still some, who would like to start it off again!
    People are too intelligent for that these days. Or are they?
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    Pennylane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    People are too intelligent for that these days. Or are they?
    Well i sincerely hope they are WW .. But i seem to remember an incident in Northern Ireland , not so long ago , it was the same year my little girl started school , 2001 i think it was , the Protestants would'nt let they little Catholic kids walk through their area to get to school .. But in saying that , i thought the Catholic parents were just as bad for putting their little children through a terrifying experience , when they could so easily have taken another route .

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    Well i sincerely hope they are WW .. But i seem to remember an incident in Northern Ireland , not so long ago , it was the same year my little girl started school , 2001 i think it was , the Protestants would'nt let they little Catholic kids walk through their area to get to school .. But in saying that , i thought the Catholic parents were just as bad for putting their little children through a terrifying experience , when they could so easily have taken another route .
    With all due respect, we are not Irish. I personally have Irish connections from the famine which is now getting on for 200 years ago. We have just discovered that part of our family date from 1557 in the Lake District. We are mixed like the rest of Liverpudlians, with Irish way down the list. I do not consider myself Irish in any way whatsoever. I have no connections with Ireland.

    That island, which most is a foreign country and not even in the British Commonwealth, has a troubled past and present. As one Irishman said to me, "the Irish have a problem with Christianity". It is not our business in Liverpool to engage in it. No more than us engaging in the problems of other countries. And although Ulster is officially in the UK, it is realistically not. Look at the politics of the place. The Labour Party is not even set up there and they are the ruling party in the UK. It is different, it is not the same as us. Ulster is a foreign country inside the UK - still a colony in effect.
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    Pennylane
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    I did'nt say anything about us being Irish , but both sets of my greatgrandparent were IRISH though ! As for us engaging in the Irish troubles , well i blame the Orange order for that one , they are carrying on some age old tradition that belonged to William of Orange and the battle of the Boyne , and they rubbed our faces in it on a weekly basis , i was too young to understand it all until i got older .. As for the politics of it all well , i was in Belfast last year visiting a friend , she is studying to be a human rights lawyer , she works with the Lawyer who helped to write up the Good Friday agreement , she told me that you have to live it to even begin to understand the complexities of it all .. But i'll tell you this , as soon as i got into the taxi , the driver kept asking me what part of Belfast did Grace come from , the Falls Rd or the Shankill , Grace is protestant , but i told him she just lives by the city centre .. It's still a bone of contention over there , and to me , it has more to do with each generation teaching hatred than it does with politics !

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    Henry the horse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    Oh no Steve , I worked very hard bringing my kids up to know that creed.. colour.. rich or poor , we are all human beings , and should respect each other .. They can't comprehend religous or racial hatered at all , it has to stop with the kids , it can't be generational .....
    Good for you,Penny.

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    Pennylane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry the horse View Post
    Good for you,Penny.
    Thank you Henry .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    Thank you Henry .
    No probs,Penny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry the horse View Post
    No probs,Penny
    x

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    It's still a bone of contention over there , and to me , it has more to do with each generation teaching hatred than it does with politics !
    Exactly. I want nothing to do with it. It has no place in Liverpool. Those who want to engage in it should go to Ulster. It is not our problem or concern.
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    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Anyone remember the large graffiti - near the south end of the Dock Road, I think.

    A "WE LOVE OUR POPE" slogan got changed to --

    "WE LOVE OUR POPEYE" with the addition of a few letters...

    It was there for a long time.

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    Graffiti on the long wall at Netherfield Road - the hotbed.



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    The lodge marching along Nethy in the 50s.



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    Here's another thread on the lodge here.

    http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/sho...t=orange+lodge


    The funny thing was, when searching for it, one of the threads that showed up was about sunbed parlours ha ha.
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    Keeping It Real !!!!!!!!! ItsaZappathing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Exactly. I want nothing to do with it. It has no place in Liverpool. Those who want to engage in it should go to Ulster. It is not our problem or concern.
    Here here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    Oh no Steve , I worked very hard bringing my kids up to know that creed.. colour.. rich or poor , we are all human beings , and should respect each other .. They can't comprehend religous or racial hatered at all , it has to stop with the kids , it can't be generational .....
    That's to be admired,But someone still has to go around scrubbing the fresh graffiti off,in Shaw st.recently, and I was told about more,up Garston/Speke way!?! So some would like it to continue/resume,unfortunately, but most of us, have well gone past that type of predjudice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennylane View Post
    Oh no Steve , I worked very hard bringing my kids up to know that creed.. colour.. rich or poor , we are all human beings , and should respect each other .. They can't comprehend religous or racial hatered at all , it has to stop with the kids , it can't be generational .....
    If only that was taught more often to the children of today. Do you think it is ? I

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsaZappathing View Post
    If only that was taught more often to the children of today. Do you think it is ? I
    Unfortunatley NO Zapp , if there was , there would be a lot more tolerence around .. I was helping my friend with her outfit one day , she was the 'Queen' in the Lodge , and she looked beautiful in my eyes , i'll never forget the hiding i got for that one , i was helping her down the stairs in our tenements , we were only kids .. I don't know how to say this , but the protestant Mums seemed more tolerent and kind than our Catholic Mums ... Yikes !! I best run nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I have no time for this Irish organisation, the Orange Order, in any way shape or form. They are based on hate - they hate Catholics. It is working class. The educated, intelligent, middles cases of Liverpool wanted nothing to do with them, and they never operated in middle class districts.

    I have no time for people who hate others, be they Catholic, Muslim, or whatever.

    Big business in Liverpool silently encouraged it to keep the working class split - divide and rule.

    If an organisation decided to march in the streets who hated Muslims and shouted obscenities outside mosques they would be banned from marching. So why does this band of Catholic haters, who would shout obscenities when passing Catholic churches and schools be allowed to march?

    This Irish outfit has no place in modern Liverpool. If they feel so much about this organisation of hate then they should go to Ulster with the rest of the idiots.

    They should not be prominent in our history - only worthy of the odd mention, because they did and do actually embarrassingly exist.
    You do seem very bitter
    So The Orange Order should not be bitter
    yet you can be.
    If you read up on this, you would realise that member of the Royal Family were actualy part of the Orange Order.
    I don't remember any of the guys shouting at Catholic schools or kids as we marched during the 60s
    I was child back then by the way.
    It is about remebering our heritage
    Oh I'm sorry
    English people are not allowed heritage are they.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    There are Orange orders throughout the world too:
    Australia, Canada, Ghana, Togo, Nigeria, New Zealand, USA.

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