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Thread: Barclay's (Martin's) Bank Doors Linked to Slavery?

  1. #16

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    On that note, Ged, I stand corrected.

    However, there's no denying (as we all know) that goods from South America that had been traded using slaves arrived here in large numbers. Fair enough, it may not have been a large proportion of Liverpool's trade, but either way I'm not ashamed to be associated with Liverpool, and I'd never be ashamed to walk down/live on a road named after someone prominent in the slave trade.

    All this re-writing of history is reminiscent of 1984. If it's illegal to deny the Holocaust, how can we get away with proposing to rename 'slave trade' streets? It sounds like sweeping under the carpet and 'tidying up' to me. Oh, let's name them after abolitionists, that'd be PC... I disagree. I think it's just patronising Afro-American communities.

    The fact that Britain and North America (first nation to actively try and abolish it?) no longer participate in a slave trade/triangle should be enough. Liverpool councillors today would not participate in such activities given the chance, so they've nothing to feel guilty about.


  2. #17
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Yes. Agreed. I for one don't want any council apologising on my behalf. It was a bad thing, but the way of the world back then and other races were by far running slaves trades a lot earlier and a lot later than ours. It doesn't justify it but puts it into perspective - in fact aren't some still doing it.
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  3. #18
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  4. #19
    Senior Member fortinian's Avatar
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    I agree that Liverpool didn't make it's money solely off the slave trade but it was a hugely significant factor in Liverpools boom.

    As for Martins Bank, the building was constructed in 1932 - 125 years after abolition. It would be strange for slavery to be included on a bank carving over 100 years later.

  5. #20
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    I remember a caller to BBC Radio Merseyside, having been told by someone to go and check his facts regarding the slavery wealth of the city, did just that. His call was to enlighten us. Apparently, after scouring records for months in the Picton Library search room, he found that Liverpool was coining it in from far fewer known sources during the slavery period that what slavery ever produced - these being our trade with Ireland and The Isle of Man.
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  6. #21
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    The East Indies supplied both the cloths and beads which formed a major and essential part of the Guinea cargoes. The English East India Company supplies were high-priced. It was possible to import the less expensive Dutch East India Company goods into the Isle of Man from Holland. Between 1718 and 1764 slaving vessels called at the Island to collect these goods en route for Africa.

    On 22 January 1761 Paul Bridson imported into Douglas from on board the Bonac, Jan Wolfers master, from Rotterdam the goods displayed in the table.

    28 chests Beads arangoes or red carnelian beads from Indial
    7 casks Baft from India coarse cotton cloth from
    1 chest Chintz India painted or stained calico more expensive than the bafts
    15 chests Silesias fine linen or cotton fabric from Silesia
    154 casks Cowries Small shells from the Maldive Islands off India
    3 casks 748 dozen knives also used as part of the ‘pawn’ to purchase slaves
    14 hoops Ling fish provisions for the voyage

    The value of these Guinea goods, excluding the knives whose value is not listed, was £4,056 (over £240,000 in current values). Part of the customs record for this landing is shown below.

    The Top 20 Merchants importing Guinea goods into the Isle of Man, 1718-1764
    1 Paul Bridson
    2 William Teare
    3 William Murray Senior
    4 William Quayle
    5 John Joseph Bacon
    6 Thomas Arthur
    7 Patrick Savage
    8 John Murray
    9 Robert Kennedy
    10 Phil Finch
    11 Mary Reeves
    12 Philip Moore
    13 Hugh Cosnahan
    14 Andrew Savage
    15 Ross, Black & Christian
    16 John Frissel
    17 Edward Moore
    18 Catherine Halsall
    19 James Oates
    20 John Taubman

    paul bridson was the islands chief constable

    there was probibly more cash changing hands on the final passage dropping contraband on the island before discharging cargo in england

  7. #22
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    Ref: the southern portico of St George's Hall. The missing frieze. The best authority to my mind is Terry McGunigle of the Merseyside Forum for Sculpture, Painting & Allied Crafts.
    Terry is Florence trained and has a sculpture CV (the Liverpool greats) that ranks with the great masters. He has a mock-up (makes it sound like a patch-up) faithful copy of this frieze at his studios. He is rarin' to go on this restoration but ironically, artists with his considerable gifts are denied resources - some Capital of Culture eh?
    He is supremely talented is Terry; wonderfully deserving but understandably frustrated. Yes, if we could get the money together that wonderful frieze would be restored. Terry's details: 07904 748 725 / 0151 298 9185. The (cash starved) Merseyside Forum . . . . Borden Court, 145 / 163 London Road. Lost in a labyrinth of an old department store). terry.mcgunigle@ukonline.co.uk An artist well worth knowing.
    War is the terrorism of the rich... Terrorism is the war of the poor. - Peter Ustinov

  8. #23
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    Terry has made some of the plaques/monuments commission by Ron Formby of the Scottie Press - a friend of mine, yes Terry could be better supported.
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  9. #24
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    The guide in question is well-known for spicing up Liverpool's slavery connections whereas it's a serious enough subject as it is - there's no need to exaggerate. Martins was built in the 1930s so unlikely to be slavery related. The same guide says the French POWS at Nelson's memorial are slaves and the ship of St Nicholas and his flower (built 1952) are a slave ship and a cotton plant.
    He's well-known in guiding circles. A black historian was irate by the incorrect info he gives out as it undermines the cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    just remembered!
    It was the first series of Coast on BBC1.

  10. #25
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    Default A link does exist.....

    Quote Originally Posted by julieoapw View Post
    . Martins was built in the 1930s so unlikely to be slavery related. .
    It does have a link to slavery, Martins bank incorporated Heywood`s Bank which was founded by Arthur and Benjamin Heywood, who owned slaving ships.

  11. #26
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    I think what he meant was that the building itself (rather than the bank) is unlikely to have direct references to slavery. If you look at the style of the building it is art-deco, a style famous for its use of 'ethnic' influences (Egyptian, Ethyopian etc...) and the figures are clearly allegorical representing the wealth of the sea, shipping, maritime trade in general and not explicitly slavery.

  12. #27
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    I noticed the slavery museum thread was closed.

    According to a Radio Merseyside phone-in caller there is a very good book available from the library called White Gold (by Giles Milton)

    It concerns white slaves, captured in Southern England, Southern Ireland (including the whole town of Baltimore, S.I) - and as far away as Scandinavia.

    Captured by the Algerians and Moroccans of North Africa from 1600 until 1820with torturous and wanton violence consequences. Piracy was involved and it eminated from the Moors being driven out of Spain. Sounded interesting anyway but where's the museum?
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    That is the reason why it hasn't been replaced, but it was taken down in 1950 because it became unsafe.
    Political Correctness seems to me to be an excuse not to bother going to the expense of putting it back.

    See this.....

    Seems like a lot of money to me and possibly unobtainable. Why does it have to be marble?


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  14. #29
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool and the Slave Trade

    For those who want a more detailed and historically correct analysis of slave trade, I'd recommend they read " Liverpool, the Afican Slave Trade, and Abolition" edited by Anstey and Hair published 1989. ISBN 0 9503591 5 7

    It's contents may surprise many. There's a very detailed chapter on the role of wealthy African intermediaries ( local kings, merchants etc) in gathering up slaves from the more interior areas for sale to the slave ship captains. So if Liverpool feels it has to apologise for the slave trade, it's clear others should too.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortinian View Post
    I agree that Liverpool didn't make it's money solely off the slave trade but it was a hugely significant factor in Liverpools boom.

    .
    Not really see post 29

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