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Thread: Boundary Markers

  1. #1
    MissInformed
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    Default Boundary Markers

    I found this on the bbc website.
    A pic of a blue stone/plaque dated 1820. Apparently in Martindales car park in St Anne St.

    Any ideas what it is??


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  2. #2
    PhilipG
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    I've checked the 1908 OS map, and Rose Place was the "Divn. of Parly. Boro. & Ward Bdy." (sic).
    Division (?) of Parliamentary Borough and Ward Boundary.

  3. #3
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Default Boundary Stones

    I assume this is the Grade II listed boundary stone? I can just make out a 'W' and a 'G' either side of the dividing line.
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  4. #4
    MissInformed
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    Default Boundary Stones

    I know there are a few different little threads going on about boundary stones, but I think we should collect them all in one!

    Post your pics of boundary stones here!
    And any info/facts about them....most welcome..

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Thanks for starting this thread, MissInformed. As you can see, I have copied Marky's post of the boundary stone on Rose Lane by Mossley Hill Church to here. Marky said, "It's just a bit down the hill from the church (and on the same side). I just hope the letters don't stand for Water and Gas. I don't know its' age, but guess it's old." And I expressed the view that the "W" probably stands for "Wavertree" and the "G" for "Garston."

    I will also put the St. Anne's boundary marker here as well. -- The pic of which you helpfully posted earlier.

    Chris
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    Hi MissInformed

    Toxteth.net has a discussion of the boundaries of Toxteth Park including pictures of two boundary stones, for Wavertree and Toxteth Park, respectively, shown with a "W" and a "TP" -- which might confirm what I said above that the Rose Lane marker shows the boundary between Wavertree ("W") and Garston ("W"). Also shown on Toxteth.net are a recent railway marker close to those two stones, as well as another possible Toxteth boundary marker.

    On Mike Royden's history site in his discussion of the Oglet saltworks in Dungeon Lane, he mentions that "A ditch running alongside Dungeon Lane, which leads down to the shore from Hale Road, once formed part of the ancient boundary line between the townships of Speke and Hale" and that "A boundary stone bearing the Speke Hall Watt family's initials was situated on this line part way along the incline."

    In his discussion of Roby, Mike says, "The oldest standing structure is most likely what appear to be the remnants of either a village cross - or perhaps a boundary stone." A picture of the stone appears on his site.

    Chris
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    According to City Council the following Boundary Stones exist.

    Church Road: Grade II Stone. Divided into 2 parts. Left part "Much Woolton" right part "Little Woolton"

    Mill Lane Wavertree: Salisbury Stone Boundary Stone. Made of Sandstone. Inscribed with a crown and the letter S. 1861.

    Rose Lane: Township boundary stone, set against stone wall to north of Church of St. Matthew and St. James. Grade II. Made of Sandstone. Vertical line in centre. "W" (for Wavertree) on the left and "G" (for Garston) on the right.

    Priory Rd Anfield and Townsend Lane: Boundary Post 1884. Made of Sandstone.Township of Walton On The Hill and Township of West Derby.

    Walton Lane& Tetlow Street: Boundary Post 1865. Grade II. Cast metal.

    Mike

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    Great, thank you, Mike. I had forgotten that there was a "Much Woolton" and a "Little Woolton" although I have to admit I would not know which is which -- does anyone know? Also about the Salisbury stone in Mill Lane, Wavertree, I believe Lord Salisbury owned land in the Wavertree area so I should say that accounts for that designation.

    Ah, I now see that the Victoria County History has a site on Much Woolton and Little Woolton, the latter of which confirms the local link to the Marquis of Salisbury.

    Chris
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I'm sure I've posted these pictures somewhere on the forum before.
    Anyway, this is the boundary marker on Priory rd. Don't know what happened to the top of it (there used to be a pointy sort of cap ) - it suddenly disappeared after all these years. Might have been knocked off by vandals or something.
    Not very clear but one side says Township of Walton on the Hill.
    The other side, Township of West derby.
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    Last edited by lindylou; 12-07-2006 at 07:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    I'm sure I've posted these pictures somewhere on the forum before.
    Anyway, this is the boundary marker on Priory rd. Don't know what happened to the top of it (there used to be a pointy sort of cap ) - it suddenly disappeared after all these years. Might have been knocked off by vandals or something.
    Not very clear but one side says Township of Walton on the Hill.
    The other side, Township of West derby.
    Thanks, Lindy!

    Chris
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  11. #11
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerTheCat View Post
    According to City Council the following Boundary Stones exist.

    Church Road: Grade II Stone. Divided into 2 parts. Left part "Much Woolton" right part "Little Woolton"

    Mill Lane Wavertree: Salisbury Stone Boundary Stone. Made of Sandstone. Inscribed with a crown and the letter S. 1861.

    Rose Lane: Township boundary stone, set against stone wall to north of Church of St. Matthew and St. James. Grade II. Made of Sandstone. Vertical line in centre. "W" (for Wavertree) on the left and "G" (for Garston) on the right.

    Priory Rd Anfield and Townsend Lane: Boundary Post 1884. Made of Sandstone.Township of Walton On The Hill and Township of West Derby.

    Walton Lane& Tetlow Street: Boundary Post 1865. Grade II. Cast metal.

    Mike
    This list is interesting, but it's not complete.
    I don't know much about Boundary Stones, but funnily enough, the 2 that I do know are not here.
    There's one in Aigburth Vale, near Aigburth Road, and one in Smithdown Road, by the Cemetery wall.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    This list is interesting, but it's not complete.
    I don't know much about Boundary Stones, but funnily enough, the 2 that I do know are not here.
    There's one in Aigburth Vale, near Aigburth Road, and one in Smithdown Road, by the Cemetery wall.
    Hi Philip

    Thanks, Philip. Here's the one on Smithdown Road as pictured on Toxteth.net

    http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...y%20marker.htm

    I don't know the one in Aigburth Vale. I know there is a mile marker there which is described in the following PDF file from the Liverpool Corporation on local monuments and markers as a circa 1900 cast iron marker which states "Toxteth Park 3 1/2 miles to Liverpool Exchange"

    http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-37069.pdf

    Chris
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    Geek GingerTheCat's Avatar
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    For Aigburth they show a Cast Iron Mile Post, Grade II, Circa 1900 saying Toxteth Park 3 miles to Liverpool Exchange

    and nothing for Smithdown Road.


    Mike

  14. #14
    MissInformed
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    great info guys!

  15. #15
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerTheCat View Post
    For Aigburth they show a Cast Iron Mile Post, Grade II, Circa 1900 saying Toxteth Park 3 miles to Liverpool Exchange

    Mike
    That's gone missing
    It was in the corner by Aigburth Road (near the underpass).

    The Boundary Stone is just the other side of the "Old Bank" building.

  16. #16
    theninesisters
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    Wavertree has one - of sorts:


    Walk along Mill Lane - so called because it was the road leading from Old Swan to the ancient Wavertree Mill off Woolton Road - past the children's playground. A few yards inside the railed enclosure can be seen a sandstone block, protruding from the grassy surface, inscribed with a crown and the letter 'S'.

    This 'Salisbury stone' is a reminder of the old Wavertree Lake which existed on this site until 1929, and of a dispute between the Local Board and the Lord of the Manor as long ago as 1861. The Lake was a valued local asset; the existence of a water supply - springing from the original well - was probably the reason why a village developed here, the name 'Wavertree' having been translated by one scholar as "the place by the common pond". During the nineteenth century, however, it became very dirty and weed-infested, and the Local Board of Health decided to clean it up and plant trees round the edge. This provoked a reaction from the Marquess of Salisbury - Lord of the Manor of Wavertree - who ordered 'mere stones' (boundary markers) to be placed round the edge to show that it was his property rather than common land. Eventually the dispute was resolved - the Marquess agreeing to allow the Board to continue with its scheme - but one of the stones remains to this day.

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    Hi Jona76

    Thanks for that great information about the Wavertree boundary stone, Jona76. Most interesting!

    Chris
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  18. #18
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    That's gone missing
    It was in the corner by Aigburth Road (near the underpass).

    The Boundary Stone is just the other side of the "Old Bank" building.
    I think there is a pic of the one that says something about the Exchange in Our City, Our Heritage by O connor...i have lent out my book, so may need your help here Philip!

  19. #19
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    I think there is a pic of the one that says something about the Exchange in Our City, Our Heritage by O connor...i have lent out my book, so may need your help here Philip!
    Here's the relevant pic.
    Checked today, and this milestone's still missing.

    However, the Boundary Stone is still a few yards away on the other side of the door of the Old Bank in Aigburth Vale.
    T T P = Township of Toxteth Park.
    T G = Township of Garston.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Here's a location pic for the Rose Lane stone...the church is on the left near the top of the hill.
    I've seen a few metal plates around, some with numbers some without. Are these mile posts? There's a numbered one at Aigburth rd. and The Serpentine.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Here's the relevant pic.
    Checked today, and this milestone's still missing.

    However, the Boundary Stone is still a few yards away on the other side of the door of the Old Bank.
    T T P = Township of Toxteth Park.
    T G = Township of Garston.
    Hello Philip

    Many thanks for this. I worked for a while at what was then, in 1968, Martin's Bank in Aigburth Vale, on the eastern corner of Ashfield Road and Aigburth Road, which later became Barclay's Bank. This is pictured at Toxteth.net at http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...rth%20vale.htm

    I am assuming that the "Old Bank" is what was when I worked there, Westminster Bank, on the other side of Ashfield Road, pictured on Toxteth.net at http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverp...20vale%202.htm

    I am sorry to hear that the old mile marker is missing. I assume somebody might have it as a souvenir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    Here's a location pic for the Rose Lane stone...the church is on the left near the top of the hill.
    I've seen a few metal plates around, some with numbers some without. Are these mile posts? There's a numbered one at Aigburth rd. and The Serpentine.
    Liverpool area boundary stone complete with dolly bird swinging her handbag. Perfect!

    I have no opinion about the Aigburth Road and Serpentine marker that you saw. As we noted earlier, we might be drifting into corporation markers for gas and electric lines etc in contrast to the older boundary markers.

    Chris
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  23. #23
    PhilipG
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    The bank on the Garston side is now a wine-bar.
    The Boundary Stone is outside the former bank on the Liverpool side.
    That building is now a sort of private Labour Exchange. "Work today. Get Paid today".

    For years there were a few single storey shops before you got to Aigburth Vale.
    (I think I mixed up Aigburth Vale with Ashfield Road before).
    Those single storey shops and the building on the corner of the Vale have gone and have been replaced with a block of flats.
    The ground floor is taken up with garages as that was historically an area prone to flooding.
    At one stage a cinema was planned for that site. Not a lot of people know that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    The bank on the Garston side is now a wine-bar.
    The Boundary Stone is outside the former bank on the Liverpool side.
    That building is now a sort of private Labour Exchange. "Work today. Get Paid today".

    For years there were a few single storey shops before you got to Aigburth Vale.
    (I think I mixed up Aigburth Vale with Ashfield Road before).
    Those single storey shops and the building on the corner of the Vale have gone and have been replaced with a block of flats.
    The ground floor is taken up with garages as that was historically an area prone to flooding.
    At one stage a cinema was planned for that site. Not a lot of people know that!
    Hi Philip

    Yes last time I drove through Aigburth Vale, I was startled to see that where I labored as a bank clerk in 1968, the former Martin's and later Barclay's Bank, is now a wine bar! Thanks for clarifying that the boundary marker is on opposite street corner, beside the former bank on the Liverpool side, what had been "the opposition" -- Westminster Bank-- when I worked in the locality, but now a sort of private Labour Exchange. "Work today. Get Paid today". Incredible.

    Good to know about the trivia that a cinema was actually mooted to go into the area at one time! Thanks, Philip.

    Chris
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    Hi all

    Found this railway boundary marker on Liverpool Parks and Suburbs. Stated to be "A boundary marker on the pavement of Smithdown Road." Can anyone place it more exactly?



    Chris
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  26. #26
    MissInformed
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    I have never seen that!
    I will have to have a look out for it..
    thanks Chris!

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    Location of Railway metal plate: This is near the site of the old railway station, Smithdown rd. You can see it in the bottom-left corner of the following pic. It reads:

    BOUNDARY POST
    L. & N. W. Ry. Co.
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  28. #28
    MissInformed
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    that's brilliant marky!
    all the times i have been along there, and never seen it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marky View Post
    Location of Railway metal plate: This is near the site of the old railway station, Smithdown rd. You can see it in the bottom-left corner of the following pic. It reads:

    BOUNDARY POST
    L. & N. W. Ry. Co.

    Hi Marky

    Many thanks for tying down the exact location of this marker for us!

    Chris
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    Default Where is Aigburth

    However, the Boundary Stone is still a few yards away on the other side of the door of the Old Bank in Aigburth Vale.
    T T P = Township of Toxteth Park.
    T G = Township of Garston.[/QUOTE]


    I was very interested to see the reference to the Toxteth/ Garston boundary marker. It's one I'd not know about. Given that Aigburth is part of the township of Garston, does anyone know how the area of St Michael's , Lark Lane, Riverside Drive etc and indeed the whole of Sefton park are commonly stated to be in "Aigburth" when clearly they were and still are in Toxteth

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