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Thread: Leveson Street House

  1. #1
    MissInformed
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    Default Leveson Street House

    Hi all
    Does anyone know of a pic/photo of the Leveson Street house (where the murder took place)


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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    Hi all
    Does anyone know of a pic/photo of the Leveson Street house (where the murder took place)
    Hello MissInformed

    Leveson Street is now Grenville Street South. Steve Horton has a page on The Leveson Street Massacre which shows the street. I should think that the house where the murders occurred probably has been swept away.

    Chris
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  3. #3
    MissInformed
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    hi chris
    thanks for replying. I have walked down grenville st south many times!
    The case fascinates me somewhat.I have read up on it quite a bit.

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    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hello MissInformed

    Leveson Street is now Grenville Street South. Steve Horton has a page on The Leveson Street Massacre which shows the street. I should think that the house where the murders occurred probably has been swept away.

    Chris

    Given Chris has posting links to this site more than once I may as well idetify myself as the author. I posted that site in 2001, made periodic updates then from 2003 onwards geared most of my energies to football writing. Now I cant remember the passwords to update it, as Id now like to revamp it completely.

    When Gleeson was hanged for the murders at Kirkdale Gaol special trains were run from as far away as Lancashire and estimates of the crowd vary at between 50,000 and 100,000.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    Given Chris has posting links to this site more than once I may as well idetify myself as the author. I posted that site in 2001, made periodic updates then from 2003 onwards geared most of my energies to football writing. Now I cant remember the passwords to update it, as Id now like to revamp it completely.

    When Gleeson was hanged for the murders at Kirkdale Gaol special trains were run from as far away as Lancashire and estimates of the crowd vary at between 50,000 and 100,000.
    Thank you, Steve. Good information on your crime pages. I appreciate it.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  6. #6
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    Given Chris has posting links to this site more than once I may as well idetify myself as the author. I posted that site in 2001, made periodic updates then from 2003 onwards geared most of my energies to football writing. Now I cant remember the passwords to update it, as Id now like to revamp it completely.

    When Gleeson was hanged for the murders at Kirkdale Gaol special trains were run from as far away as Lancashire and estimates of the crowd vary at between 50,000 and 100,000.
    I read that too.

    It's quite surprising that seems a really big case yet i have never seen any photos of the people/places involved. (at the time)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    I read that too.

    It's quite surprising that seems a really big case yet i have never seen any photos of the people/places involved. (at the time)
    Photos in 1849?

    1849 was the when the Irish famine was on. Liverpool was inundated with starving Irish living on the streets, 20 to a room and begging on the streets.

    Maurice Gleeson said he was a ships carpenter. He had a skill while most Iriosh could no read or write with no skills whatsoever. So he could afford lodgings around there, which at the time was a wealthy part of town.
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  8. #8
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Photos in 1849?

    1849 was the when the Irish famine was on. Liverpool was inundated with starving Irish living on the streets, 20 to a room and begging on the streets.

    Maurice Gleeson said he was a ships carpenter. He had a skill while most Iriosh could no read or write with no skills whatsoever. So he could afford lodgings around there, which at the time was a wealthy part of town.

    I didn't mean to write photos! Sorry!! I meant sketches. From the papers of the day.

  9. #9
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    Given Chris has posting links to this site more than once I may as well idetify myself as the author. I posted that site in 2001, made periodic updates then from 2003 onwards geared most of my energies to football writing. Now I cant remember the passwords to update it, as Id now like to revamp it completely.

    When Gleeson was hanged for the murders at Kirkdale Gaol special trains were run from as far away as Lancashire and estimates of the crowd vary at between 50,000 and 100,000.
    Just been looking at the site, and noticed on the 'Riddle of the Hanging Boy' page, it said pictures to be added soon....are there any to post here???

  10. #10
    MissInformed
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    Hi
    This question is really directed at Chris George or Philip G for their expertise, Chris in true crime, PhilipG in Liverpool maps, etc.
    But any ideas/answers would be appreciated!

    In the Leveson St case, I have read a few times that the murderer washed his hands in the 'FIGURE OF EIGHT PIT, toxteth Park'...

    any ideas where this/is was?

  11. #11
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    Hi
    This question is really directed at Chris George or Philip G for their expertise, Chris in true crime, PhilipG in Liverpool maps, etc.
    But any ideas/answers would be appreciated!

    In the Leveson St case, I have read a few times that the murderer washed his hands in the 'FIGURE OF EIGHT PIT, toxteth Park'...

    any ideas where this/is was?
    Hi MissInformed

    I would be prepared to defer to Steve and PhilipG on their greater local knowledge. The Figure of Eight Pit is new to me.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
    Chris on Flickr and on MySpace

  12. #12
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi MissInformed

    I would be prepared to defer to Steve and PhilipG on their greater local knowledge. The Figure of Eight Pit is new to me.

    Chris
    ta chris will do!

  13. #13
    PhilipG
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    It's new to me too.
    Ponds were sometimes called pits.

    I could probably find Leveson Street/Grenville Street North on a map.
    Try the Record Office for photos.

  14. #14
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    It's new to me too.
    Ponds were sometimes called pits.

    I could probably find Leveson Street/Grenville Street North on a map.
    Try the Record Office for photos.
    I went there a few years back, and had a look on some old maps of the time of the murder, but I couldn't see it on that.
    It is in the Whittington Egan version of the story that I saw the figure of eight pit...

    interesting about the ponds theory philip

  15. #15
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    It's new to me too.
    Ponds were sometimes called pits.

    I could probably find Leveson Street/Grenville Street North on a map.
    Try the Record Office for photos.

    True, the "Forty Pits" in Allerton near the present day junction of Allerton Road and Booker Avenue was a series of ponds set in woodland that existed until a modern housing development encroached in the early 1970's. Thanks, PhilipG.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  16. #16
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    I didn't mean to write photos! Sorry!! I meant sketches. From the papers of the day.
    I've looked at press cuttings from the trial at the record office and there didnt seem to be any pictures/sketches at all.

  17. #17
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    I went there a few years back, and had a look on some old maps of the time of the murder, but I couldn't see it on that.
    It is in the Whittington Egan version of the story that I saw the figure of eight pit...

    interesting about the ponds theory philip
    I have a 1769 map of Toxteth Park that I got in a pack of stuff from Scouse Press. There is what I am assuming to be a pond marked on it in a figure of 8 shape, around the site of the current junction of Upper Stanhope St and Princes Rd. This is about 500m from Grenville St South. What I dont know is if this area had been built upon by 1849, if indeed whats on the map is a pond in the first place.

  18. #18
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteH View Post
    I have a 1769 map of Toxteth Park that I got in a pack of stuff from Scouse Press. There is what I am assuming to be a pond marked on it in a figure of 8 shape, around the site of the current junction of Upper Stanhope St and Princes Rd. This is about 500m from Grenville St South. What I dont know is if this area had been built upon by 1849, if indeed whats on the map is a pond in the first place.
    That is brilliant
    Thank you so much for looking into that for me.
    What was the pack you got from Scouse Press?

  19. #19
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    That is brilliant
    Thank you so much for looking into that for me.
    What was the pack you got from Scouse Press?
    Have a look here. http://www.scousepress.co.uk/home.htm. I'm going back 4-5 years and I got packet number 2. If its what is advertised here it is great value, about 10 maps an 4-5 prints.

  20. #20
    TonyS
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    Hi
    This question is really directed at Chris George or Philip G for their expertise, Chris in true crime, PhilipG in Liverpool maps, etc.
    But any ideas/answers would be appreciated!

    In the Leveson St case, I have read a few times that the murderer washed his hands in the 'FIGURE OF EIGHT PIT, toxteth Park'...

    any ideas where this/is was?
    Is this referring to Mather's Dam ?

    I've attached a scan from an 1821 map.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Mathers Dam.jpeg copy.jpg 
Views:	176 
Size:	340.9 KB 
ID:	1943  

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    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Old-Merseytimes website, mentions a pond in a field at the end of Crown Street as being 'the figure of eight pit'. A mid-19th century map might show it.
    http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/levesonstmurder.html

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    Good find Marky.
    www.inacityliving.piczo.com/

    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

  23. #23
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    Default 'Figure Of Eight Pit' Location

    Hi Gang,

    I've looked at the period maps (in particular the 1850 map of the area, before it was developed much beyond the junction of Beaumont St and Kingsley Rd) and I've superimposed the figure of eight pit (clearly visible - and to the same scale) onto a modern satellite photo, using an image from Google maps.

    I make its location just above the junction of Eversley Street and Kingsley Rd - and have lightened it up for greater clarity.



    1850 map showing 'figure of eight' pit



    Location of the 'figure of eight' pit transposed on a modern topographical map

  24. #24
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Extract from Liverpool Mercury 1849 C)British Library



    Murder scene plan:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2563250...l-60302053@N00

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