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Thread: ALBERT DOCK, Jesse Hartley's masterpiece

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    Default ALBERT DOCK, Jesse Hartley's masterpiece

    1- The largest group of grade 1 listed buildings in the country. The dock walls are listed too.
    2- The worlds first enclosed dock system.
    3- The worlds first hydraulic hoists, costing 1000 in old money.
    4- The first dock to be opened by a prince consort.
    5- The first dock warehouse built entirely from incumbustable materials, cast iron, stone, brick and galvanised iron roofing.



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    the river side of the dock was built on sand, and it rises and falls with the tide!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    the river side of the dock was built on sand, and it rises and falls with the tide!
    I never new that Louis! Sheesh - u learn something new everyday
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    Default .....

    it was named after prince albert

    only joking (although it was)

    it could not provide deep enough water for the new steam ships and trade started to decline during the 1890s therefore being left idle shortly after until its closure in 1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lian
    it was named after prince albert

    only joking (although it was)

    it could not provide deep enough water for the new steam ships and trade started to decline during the 1890s therefore being left idle shortly after until its closure in 1972
    Not quite. The size and depth of the dock was fine in fact the dock is quite big with large ships being able to turn in the dock the south end docks were smaller than the larger north end docks, yet they were still quite big with quite large ships entering them. The odd large ship still enters Albert. Steam ships required more quay space to load and unload for larger cranes to operate. It was designed for sailing ships which could take the cargo right out and into the warehouses. Roof mounted cranes were considered but thought too costly and I think the structures could not hold the weights involved. The warehouses were always used. The cargo was taken from ships in other adjacent docks to the Albert Dock.

    Dukes Dock next to Albert had a unique grain warehouse that was near 200 years old when demolished in the early 1960s. The city has done some appalling acts of historical vandalism in its time.

    Dukes Dock is now filled in and a concrete stadium and a multi-storey car park being built upon it.


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    Would be nice to see Hartley's other masterpiece the Stanley Dock renovated.

    There was talk of tearing the gigantic tobacco warehouse down. That would be absolute madness no other city in the world would do such a thing.


    There must be some imaginative company which could take this on and convert it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways
    Dukes Dock next to Albert had a unique grain warehouse that was near 200 years old when demolished in the early 1960s. The city has done some appalling acts of historical vandalism in its time.

    Dukes Dock is now filled in and a concrete stadium and a multi-storey car park being built upon it.

    I agree very poor decision to knock this gem down.

    I hope they don't knock the Stanley Dock warehouse down, no way !!
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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    Newbie Tony Mo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Dukes Dock is now filled in and a concrete stadium and a multi-storey car park being built upon it.


    Duke's Dock was still there this morning when I drove past it.

    There was a concrete stadium and mult-storey car park being

    built on King's Dock, but we all know that don't we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony

    Mo;22034
    Duke's Dock was still there this morning when I drove past it.
    You only saw part of Dukes Dock. Dukes Dock originally in the

    1700s, was nearly as you see it now. It was extended to have a branch off it in a cross shape - one of the old unique grain warehouse was at the end of one

    of the legs and ships loaded/unloaded in the dry. The entrance to the branch can still be seen. Look at the old maps. The branch became the dock. Dukes

    Dock was also extended into the Wapping Basin, as it is now. This section unofficially became know as Dukes Passage, as it was was a transit passage to

    Dukes Dock proper (the cross shape) and Wapping Basin.

    It is fair to say Dukes Dock is filled in and the concrete stadium is being built on it.



    http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

    There was a concrete stadium and mult-storey car park being built on King's Dock, but we all

    know that don't we?
    Unfortunately it is. See:
    http://www.saveliverpooldocks.co.uk
    Go to:
    "King Dock - How not to do it",

    on the menu.

    Below: the grain warehouse at the end of the branch, which actually became the dock where the work took

    place.

    Last edited by Waterways; 10-20-2006 at 03:14 PM.
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    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban View Post
    Would be nice to see Hartley's other masterpiece the Stanley Dock

    renovated.

    There was talk of tearing the gigantic tobacco warehouse down. That would be absolute madness no other city in the world would do such a

    thing.
    Don't forget, it was only the south and north Stanley Dock warehouses that were designed by Hartley - he doesn't take the credit for the

    main tobacco warehouse.

    There have been proposals for redevelopment of all three warehouses, and there is an illustration somewhere. One of the main

    problems with the tobacco warehouse is the fact that the floors are low in height, which would make them unfeasible for most

    developments...



    [IMG]http://www.forties-design.co.uk/

    l2/reports/images/tobacco/Dsc_0166.jpg[/IMG]

    If any of those warehouses were ripped down, it would be truly horrendous! I can deal with the

    old grain silo getting the chop, but the warehouses are something else, especially the tobacco warehouse.

    EDIT: BTW, I mean the grain silo on Stanley

    Dock, not the old one on Dukes Dock - that looked really unique...

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    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    Don't forget, it was only the south and north Stanley Dock warehouses that were designed by Hartley - he doesn't take the credit for

    the main tobacco warehouse.

    There have been proposals for redevelopment of all three warehouses, and there is an illustration somewhere. One of the

    main problems with the tobacco warehouse is the fact that the floors are low in height, which would make them unfeasible for most

    developments...
    They don't look that low to me.

    The whole area is in the WHS zone. The Stanley dock is not owned by Peel or

    British waterways.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    Don't forget, it was only the south and north Stanley Dock warehouses that were designed by Hartley - he doesn't take the credit for

    the main tobacco warehouse.

    [CENTER]
    Spappel, one

    thing about your great pics on the forties-design site. At times you don't give an overall picture of the buildings you take pictures of inside. E.g., it

    would be nice to have pics of the south warehouse from many angles.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    E.g., it would be nice to have pics of the south warehouse from many angles.
    This is something I'm already conscious of! I

    keep trying to find time to get some decent shots of the outside of the warehouses, in particular the south one. Too many places I visit I don't take

    enought time to photograph the outside - it's something I'm trying to work on! Oh, and the site is level-two.co.uk, the forties-design bit is somebody

    else's hosting, we just can't get the level-two domain name to mask properly yet...

  14. #14
    scouserdave
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    JB (Waterways) can probably confirm this, but wasn't there a very serious idea of demolishing the Albert Dock in the 70s and replacing it with an office block and underground car park?!

    Snappel, your warehouse pics are brilliant! Thanks

  15. #15
    PhilipG
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    Default Tobacco Warehouse

    It was designed by A. G. Lyster and built c1897 to 1901.
    125 ft (38 metres) high.
    Constructed of 27 million bricks, it was claimed to be the largest single brick building in the world.
    It closed in 1980.
    The floors are only 7ft 2in (2.2 metres) high because the 77,000 casks were stored in single tiers to avoid breakage.

    Source: "Liverpool", by Joseph Sharples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouserdave View Post
    JB (Waterways) can probably confirm this, but wasn't there a very serious idea of demolishing the Albert Dock in the 70s and replacing it with an office block and underground car park?!
    Harry Hyams of Centre Point in London fame - a shark who pulled out the contractors and left it empty with 24/7 security for years on end until protestors occupied the site and hung massive banners from its floors. The law was changed because of him.

    In 1966 Harry Hyams wanted to demolish the Albert Dock, Canning, Salthouse etc, and build four 40 plus floor glass blocks with an underground car park. The docks would be the underground car park so no excavating. Thankfully the crank was turned down, as who knows what would have happened.

    Then in the 1970s there was moves to demolish and build a Polytechniique and car park there too.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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    scouserdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Harry Hyams of Centre Point in London fame - a shark who pulled out the contractors and left it empty with 24/7 security for years on end until protestors occupied the site and hung massive banners from its floors. The law was changed because of him.

    In 1966 Harry Hyams wanted to demolish the Albert Dock, Canning, Salthouse etc, and build four 40 plus floor glass blocks with an underground car park. The docks would be the underground car park so no excavating. Thankfully the crank was turned down, as who knows what would have happened.

    Then in the 1970s there was moves to demolish and build a Polytechniique and car park there too.
    Thanks.
    Nice to see my photies are of some use for your website btw. You're doing a cracking job

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    It was designed by A. G. Lyster and built c1897 to 1901.
    125 ft (38 metres) high.
    Constructed of 27 million bricks, it was claimed to be the largest single brick building in the world.
    It closed in 1980.
    The floors are only 7ft 2in (2.2 metres) high because the 77,000 casks were stored in single tiers to avoid breakage.

    Source: "Liverpool", by Joseph Sharples.
    The low ceilings has precluded converting the building to apartments up to now. I read that the inside is iron framed and this means that every other alternative floor can be taken, with added strengthening, out to give the height. Not sure if it can though.

    The UK building regs does not specify a minimum ceiling height. 7 foot 2 inches using wall lighting is fine. It is the hanging lights that are the problem in low ceilings, as I know when I smack my head on them in new houses.

    A hint. If you use wall lights and insert downlighters, a room appears far higher. Well worth doing. Downlighters in suspended floors require a fireproof surround. Some downlighters now come complete with the fireproof surround.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    The UK building regs does not specify a minimum ceiling height. 7 foot 2 inches using wall lighting is fine.
    Fair enough, but they might now be popular... Of course, if they did rip out every other floor, they could built mezzanine style apartments.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouserdave View Post
    Thanks.
    Nice to see my photies are of some use for your website btw. You're doing a cracking job
    Thanks Dave, all pics are welcome. There is a guy in Hamburg who will go out and take photos to order for me of Hamburg. The Dutch and Belgian helped in providing info in putting together the excavating water spaces page. The help has been phenomenal from all over the world.

    Many were mumbling to themselves and I was the only one who did anything, which struck a chord. The only person who has ever criticised is that silly Martin fella on Skyscrapercity forum, which is full of half-wits anyway. The BBC were looking at the web site this morning.

    Moves by Councillor Malcolm Kennedy, whose ward covers much of the docks World Heritage Site, and the Waterloo Quay Tenants Association are in motion to extend the World Heritage Site around Central Docks. This move is to prevent outrageous proposals to in-fill docks by developers who see fast money on generating land and implement large commercial or leisure complexes. Excavation of Trafalgar Dock is also one of the aims.

    Trafalgar Dock is partially filled in. Initially it was a temporary measure.

    I am working on an in-filled docks page. Pictures are very important. So to all, any old and new pictures of in-filled docks please direct me to them. It will be a before and now type of thing. Highlight what we have lost. The acreage lost in Liverpool and the Wirral is colossal. I am having difficulty gaining the acreage of each dock filled in to get a grand total - probably the equivalent, or more, of Venice.

    I will also do one on the Dock Road and how it is not needed and just a hindrance to just about everything

    The Waterloo Quay Tenants Association approached me for help in the new canal re-direct link, which is a clear ploy to set up dominoes to in-fill docks. Time is critical as they think Trafalgar will be lost forever, when Peel announce in a blaze of glory their proposal for Central Docks. Which no doubt will have Trafalgar Dock permanently filled in and possibly West Waterloo as well. Dissenting voices may not be heard as the glitz will blind them. Now is the time to act. Time is critical.

    BTW, please will all object to the canal re-direction. Hit the link on the signature below.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappel View Post
    Fair enough, but they might now be popular... Of course, if they did rip out every other floor, they could built mezzanine style apartments.
    The point is: Conversion is possible, as many were trying to say it was not.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
    Rapid-transit rail: Everton, Liverpool & Arena - CLICK

    Save Royal Iris - Sign Petition

  22. #22
    scouserdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Thanks Dave, all pics are welcome. There is a guy in Hamburg who will go out and take photos to order for me of Hamburg. The Dutch and Belgian helped in providing info in putting together the excavating water spaces page. The help has been phenomenal from all over the world.

    Many were mumbling to themselves and I was the only one who did anything, which struck a chord. The only person who has ever criticised is that silly Martin fella on Skyscrapercity forum, which is full of half-wits anyway. The BBC were looking at the web site this morning.

    Moves by Councillor Malcolm Kennedy, whose ward covers much of the docks World Heritage Site, and the Waterloo Quay Tenants Association are in motion to extend the World Heritage Site around Central Docks. This move is to prevent outrageous proposals to in-fill docks by developers who see fast money on generating land and implement large commercial or leisure complexes. Excavation of Trafalgar Dock is also one of the aims.

    Trafalgar Dock is partially filled in. Initially it was a temporary measure.

    I am working on an in-filled docks page. Pictures are very important. So to all, any old and new pictures of in-filled docks please direct me to them. It will be a before and now type of thing. Highlight what we have lost. The acreage lost in Liverpool and the Wirral is colossal. I am having difficulty gaining the acreage of each dock filled in to get a grand total - probably the equivalent, or more, of Venice.

    I will also do one on the Dock Road and how it is not needed and just a hindrance to just about everything

    The Waterloo Quay Tenants Association approached me for help in the new canal re-direct link, which is a clear ploy to set up dominoes to in-fill docks. Time is critical as they think Trafalgar will be lost forever, when Peel announce in a blaze of glory their proposal for Central Docks. Which no doubt will have Trafalgar Dock permanently filled in and possibly West Waterloo as well. Dissenting voices may not be heard as the glitz will blind them. Now is the time to act. Time is critical.

    BTW, please will all object to the canal re-direction. Hit the link on the signature below.
    I think you're being a bit harsh about Martin. I may not always agree with his views, but he has always come across as a nice lad. Regarding skyscrapercity.com, the Scouse lads are just Gothicform's B1tches and they just don't know it. That's their problem.
    Last edited by scouserdave; 11-09-2006 at 02:18 PM.

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