Mormon Immigration 1

[kevin]

aahh !! I wouldn't have Yo without WW, he's part and parcel of Yoliverpool

Yep - every site has one.
Rather fond of him really, but don't tell anyone.

[Waterways]

This is in the period 1856 to 1860 - a time of great emigration out of England via Liverpool and Glasgow - and of the settling of the Western US.

I am interested in this period of history - we know lots of folks moved, but we don't really know why - except for the Irish potato famine - which did not spread to Ayrshire where my family was.

The mass emigration to the USA coincided after the land grab by the British aristocracy - the Highland clearances, the enclosures, etc. This pushed people into relative poverty, landless and having pay rents to landowners. America was the only way to improve your lifestyle. They were in effect forced out. It is still going on today. Indigenous British emigration is still quite high as people move to get themselves a decent sized home to live in.

The settling of the US west is seen as a romantic quest. In effect it displaced a whole indigenous population. The natives were displaced by having their land stolen from them when Europeans went in, primarily British, who drew up land ownership deeds and laws. No one owned land in native America. Land ownership was alien to them - owning what is natural for life was not in their mindset. The locals were also "eliminated" if they stood in the way. Their source of life, the Buffalo, was eliminated.

The great resources of the west of the USA were sought after. This made the USA rich, by making the USA self-sufficient - although the east coast alone was enough to make the USA self-sufficient. The boost was in exporting raw materials and grain. The rise of the steam engine made it possible to access these riches of the west with fast trains and steam ships to take the produce all over the world.

This stealing of land and displacing the population of the US west to gain riches, and project the USA to a world economic power, was the impetus of Nazi Germany in their move to gain the riches of the Slavic east. Hitler always used the precedence of the move to the west of the USA to legitimise his military attacks and elimination of the populations of the east to gain the land and its natural resources. In their eyes, what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

All to do with land.

[pablo42]

Yep - every site has one.
Rather fond of him really, but don't tell anyone.

Ha, he'll read this, sucker...

[Waterways]

Such a shame that WW had a return ticket.

I've been over a lot of the world and had a return ticket all the time.

[kevin]

I've been over a lot of the world and had a return ticket all the time.

None of 'em would let you stay?
(just having a laugh - no malicious intention).

[pablo42]

None of 'em would let you stay?
(just having a laugh - no malicious intention).

Ha, chicken...

[Waterways]

None of 'em would let you stay?
(just having a laugh - no malicious intention).

I never wanted to stay in any of them. Although I did consider buying a vineyard in the Cape once.

[kevin]

Ha, chicken...

Nope - just like it to be clear when I'm having a laugh and when I'm seriously sniping at someone (not that I ever would, of course).

[Waterways]

I was there in the early eighties. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single bar.

There is the odd club and mainly restaurant sell alcohol. All the supermarkets sell it. There is a local brewery, which is excellent - Wasacht. A nice pale ale.

[gregs dad]

This statue at the Albert Dock depicts a mormon family sailing from Liverpool to America.I was unaware of this thinking it was just an emmigrant family, until I was asked by a mormon friend to to send him a photo of it.

[pablo42]

Nice one Joe. Don't think I've seen that.

[pablo42]

There is the odd club and mainly restaurant sell alcohol. All the supermarkets sell it. There is a local brewery, which is excellent - Wasacht. A nice pale ale.

I wasn't there long. Not like me to miss a bar. Or a new beer.

[Waterways]

Why a Mormon family? What indicates so? Did the Mormons pay for it?

[pablo42]

I never wanted to stay in any of them. Although I did consider buying a vineyard in the Cape once.

Tell us more about your vineyard WW, sounds interesting.

[Waterways]

Tell us more about your vineyard WW, sounds interesting.

It just was a vinyard with a large house attached and other buildings. Then you grow grapes and make wine. You could just grow grapes and send them to the local wine making factory - a co-op. A lot of South African wine is made this way, a blend of the local grapes. Some vinyards do both. When just growing grapes a lot of the year it is tick-over and then 24/7 in the harvest. Then hiring lots of locals, or people who come down from the north for the harvesting. Accommodation is sometimes provided for them. Some vinyards make their own wine - estate wine - and they have to know what they are doing. It is all now put down to a science, thanks to the Americans and Australians, rather than an art, as the French said it was, and can be learnt by taking courses. Modern thermostatically controlled and monitored vats take away much of the "its in the blood" approach.

South Africa could give its whole crop to the British supermarkets. They do not of course. The supermarkets control everything, to the taste and types of wine, volume, design of labels, etc. Supermarkets like fruity wines, as those new to wine like fruity wines. They go for quantity rather than quality. But a good wine would go amiss on a novice. One French vinyard borrowed many millions to improve and expand plant for the UK supermarket trade.