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Thread: Mormon Immigration 1

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    Senior Member brian daley's Avatar
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    Default Mormon Immigration 1

    I am attempting to post an extract from a Journal about the " Voyage of the Ellen Maria" in 1853. The extract was given to me by the great ,great grandson of the author ,with the express wish that I post it here. I am a rookie at this sort of thing so this will be my first attempt at posting actual documents, any advice will be extremely welcome as I don't know anything about DOS or whatever. I feel sure that you will enjoy it because it covers the little known subject of Mormon Emigration from Liverpool to the United States. Look forward to your help in this endeavour,
    BrianD


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    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian daley View Post
    I am attempting to post an extract from a Journal about the " Voyage of the Ellen Maria" in 1853. The extract was given to me by the great ,great grandson of the author ,with the express wish that I post it here. I am a rookie at this sort of thing so this will be my first attempt at posting actual documents, any advice will be extremely welcome as I don't know anything about DOS or whatever. I feel sure that you will enjoy it because it covers the little known subject of Mormon Emigration from Liverpool to the United States. Look forward to your help in this endeavour,
    BrianD
    Always thought it was the Mormons that came over here Brian. Can't help you I'm afraid, if I had to post it I woulda gone to the post box.

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    Senior Member brian daley's Avatar
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    The Mormons in this tale were converted in Lancashire and Liverpool by American missionaries,this story is about the journey of such converts to the "promised land " Utah.
    As you can see this posting has come out as thumbnails,is their an IT expert out there who can put me on the right track,
    BrianD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian daley View Post
    The Mormons in this tale were converted in Lancashire and Liverpool by American missionaries,this story is about the journey of such converts to the "promised land " Utah,
    BrianD
    I went to Salt Lake City. It's a lovely place. Alas it was dry...

    No alcohol, I never went back...

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    Captain Kong captain kong's Avatar
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    Hi Brian,
    I clicked on your thumb nail. to enlarge as usual, Then I clicked again on the ENLARGED thumb nail and another page opened up with it in, then click on `VIEW`, CLICK ON `ZOOM`, then CLICK on 200% to increase and it is normal size print, EASY TO READ.
    VOILA.!!!

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    Senior Member az_gila's Avatar
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    Smile We travelled through Utah...

    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    Always thought it was the Mormons that came over here Brian. Can't help you I'm afraid, if I had to post it I woulda gone to the post box.
    ...some 10 years ago, and stopped at many of the smaller museums in the small towns.

    The Mormons recruited lots of English residents at this time, and promised them land and free passage. This was the era before the Western US became part of the USA, and it was a method for them to populate the land and drive the Indians off. Around the 1850's they were the main white population in a large area of the West, called the Mormon Corridor - from wiki -



    This was the time a lot of folks were leaving England/Scotland/Ireland (my American side of the family came from Scotland in 1852 - my side went down into Yorkshire) and the promise of a free passage must have been very enticing.

    Apparently funds got low for the second part of the journey, the cross US trek (no train service then) and a few groups made the trip on foot pulling hand carts - quite an amazing feat.

    Story here -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers



    This is in the period 1856 to 1860 - a time of great emigration out of England via Liverpool and Glasgow - and of the settling of the Western US.

    I am not Mormon, but you have to admire these early pioneers - setting out into spots that not populated and enduring harsh winters with no other families in sight.were there are many fascinating stories told in the smaller museums we visited.
    If you think that the present cold Liverpool weather is bad - try a full winter on the US plains...

    I am interested in this period of history - we know lots of folks moved, but we don't really know why - except for the Irish potato famine - which did not spread to Ayrshire where my family was.

    My thoughts were that it was related to a rural life tuning into an urban life with the mill towns and industry forming - but who really knows...

    It wasn't an easy trip like I did in 1970 - a BEA Viscount from Speke to Heathrow , and a 707 to Detroit, and even then the plane had to refuel in Maine.... We are spoilt for travel now, and loving it....

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    Nice one Az Gila.

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    Senior Member brian daley's Avatar
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    Well ,here goes,i will publish it in full:-
    The Voyage of the Ellen Maria
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    I clicked on your thumb nail. to enlarge as usual, Then I clicked again on the ENLARGED thumb nail and another page opened up with it in, then click on `VIEW`, CLICK ON `ZOOM`, then CLICK on 200% to increase and it is normal size print, EASY TO READ.


    I can read it OK Brian, just follow what I said before, No problem. very interesting, some tough voyages there crossing the Atlantic, good seafarers. Some people moan about a crossing on Queen Mary 2.

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    Gonna be a while with this Brian.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    I went to Salt Lake City. It's a lovely place. Alas it was dry...

    No alcohol, I never went back...
    I spent about 2 to 3 months there. It isn't dry. Bars are few on the ground though. We found them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I spent about 2 to 3 months there. It isn't dry. Bars are few on the ground though. We found them.
    I was there in the early eighties. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    I was there in the early eighties. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single bar.
    Such a shame that WW had a return ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Such a shame that WW had a return ticket.
    I think he made that long march back...


    How'd you like to sit next to him on the flight home...


    He aint so bad. Just think he gets frustrated and gets rude.

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    aahh !! I wouldn't have Yo without WW, he's part and parcel of Yoliverpool

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    aahh !! I wouldn't have Yo without WW, he's part and parcel of Yoliverpool
    Yep - every site has one.
    Rather fond of him really, but don't tell anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
    This is in the period 1856 to 1860 - a time of great emigration out of England via Liverpool and Glasgow - and of the settling of the Western US.

    I am interested in this period of history - we know lots of folks moved, but we don't really know why - except for the Irish potato famine - which did not spread to Ayrshire where my family was.
    The mass emigration to the USA coincided after the land grab by the British aristocracy - the Highland clearances, the enclosures, etc. This pushed people into relative poverty, landless and having pay rents to landowners. America was the only way to improve your lifestyle. They were in effect forced out. It is still going on today. Indigenous British emigration is still quite high as people move to get themselves a decent sized home to live in.

    The settling of the US west is seen as a romantic quest. In effect it displaced a whole indigenous population. The natives were displaced by having their land stolen from them when Europeans went in, primarily British, who drew up land ownership deeds and laws. No one owned land in native America. Land ownership was alien to them - owning what is natural for life was not in their mindset. The locals were also "eliminated" if they stood in the way. Their source of life, the Buffalo, was eliminated.

    The great resources of the west of the USA were sought after. This made the USA rich, by making the USA self-sufficient - although the east coast alone was enough to make the USA self-sufficient. The boost was in exporting raw materials and grain. The rise of the steam engine made it possible to access these riches of the west with fast trains and steam ships to take the produce all over the world.

    This stealing of land and displacing the population of the US west to gain riches, and project the USA to a world economic power, was the impetus of Nazi Germany in their move to gain the riches of the Slavic east. Hitler always used the precedence of the move to the west of the USA to legitimise his military attacks and elimination of the populations of the east to gain the land and its natural resources. In their eyes, what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

    All to do with land.
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    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Yep - every site has one.
    Rather fond of him really, but don't tell anyone.
    Ha, he'll read this, sucker...

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    Such a shame that WW had a return ticket.
    I've been over a lot of the world and had a return ticket all the time.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I've been over a lot of the world and had a return ticket all the time.
    None of 'em would let you stay?
    (just having a laugh - no malicious intention).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    None of 'em would let you stay?
    (just having a laugh - no malicious intention).
    Ha, chicken...

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin View Post
    None of 'em would let you stay?
    (just having a laugh - no malicious intention).
    I never wanted to stay in any of them. Although I did consider buying a vineyard in the Cape once.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
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    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
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    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    Ha, chicken...
    Nope - just like it to be clear when I'm having a laugh and when I'm seriously sniping at someone (not that I ever would, of course).

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    I was there in the early eighties. I might be wrong, but I don't remember a single bar.
    There is the odd club and mainly restaurant sell alcohol. All the supermarkets sell it. There is a local brewery, which is excellent - Wasacht. A nice pale ale.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    This statue at the Albert Dock depicts a mormon family sailing from Liverpool to America.I was unaware of this thinking it was just an emmigrant family, until I was asked by a mormon friend to to send him a photo of it.
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    Nice one Joe. Don't think I've seen that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    There is the odd club and mainly restaurant sell alcohol. All the supermarkets sell it. There is a local brewery, which is excellent - Wasacht. A nice pale ale.
    I wasn't there long. Not like me to miss a bar. Or a new beer.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Why a Mormon family? What indicates so? Did the Mormons pay for it?
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I never wanted to stay in any of them. Although I did consider buying a vineyard in the Cape once.
    Tell us more about your vineyard WW, sounds interesting.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo42 View Post
    Tell us more about your vineyard WW, sounds interesting.
    It just was a vinyard with a large house attached and other buildings. Then you grow grapes and make wine. You could just grow grapes and send them to the local wine making factory - a co-op. A lot of South African wine is made this way, a blend of the local grapes. Some vinyards do both. When just growing grapes a lot of the year it is tick-over and then 24/7 in the harvest. Then hiring lots of locals, or people who come down from the north for the harvesting. Accommodation is sometimes provided for them. Some vinyards make their own wine - estate wine - and they have to know what they are doing. It is all now put down to a science, thanks to the Americans and Australians, rather than an art, as the French said it was, and can be learnt by taking courses. Modern thermostatically controlled and monitored vats take away much of the "its in the blood" approach.

    South Africa could give its whole crop to the British supermarkets. They do not of course. The supermarkets control everything, to the taste and types of wine, volume, design of labels, etc. Supermarkets like fruity wines, as those new to wine like fruity wines. They go for quantity rather than quality. But a good wine would go amiss on a novice. One French vinyard borrowed many millions to improve and expand plant for the UK supermarket trade.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


    Giving Liverpool a full Metro - CLICK
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