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Thread: Herculaneum Pottery

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Default Herculaneum Pottery, Toxteth

    Liverpool's forgotten Glory [with apologies to to Peter Hyland].

    Herculaneum Pottery was built on the south shore, Toxteth in 1796. It survived for only 44 years. One of the reasons cited for it's early demise was the rapid development of the Staffordshire Potteries. Even today, 'Herculaneum pottery' is much sought-after by collectors, as examples of early earthenware, creamware and china from Liverpool's industrial past.


    Image 1 ^ Herculaneum Pottery by George Codling, engraving as displayed on share certificates. c.1806. NML image.





    Image 2 ^ Pottery location. The Potteries closed 5 years after the John Bennison map was drawn, in 1840.

    D.


    ADVERTISING


    Last edited by dazza; 01-13-2010 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Map, Version 2 added.

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    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Nice one Dazza.

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    Fine work here, Dazza. Thanks. I often give talks on the War of 1812 and at one I gave in Alexandria, which surrendered to the British in 1814, a collector had a specimen of Liverpool pottery which was a small milk or cream jug with the American slogan "Free Trade and Sailors' Rights" and a picture of a battle at sea with the American ship flying the stars and stripes. It is probably not well known that the British made a lot of pottery with patriotic themes for the American market. Similarly I saw a lamp stand in the Maryland Historical Society made in Britain that was in the shape of Baltimore's Battle Monument, built to honor the American dead from the Battle of Baltimore during which the "Star-Spangled Banner" was written by Francis Scott Key.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Fine work here, Dazza.
    Thanks Chris, I've been interested in the site, ever since reading The Herculaneum Pottery, a 'Liverpool University Press' book by Peter Hyland.

    On the British/ American War of 1812, and of British patriotism [or 'loyalty' as I should say, here in the UK]. The British pottery industry seemed to be serving two masters! One for the home market, and one for export market, notably America. I did once see a picture of a Chamber Pot with George III's face looking up from it, complete with an English maker's stamp - no doubt made for a very appreciative American market? The potters had an eye, for a brown nose, it seemed [excuse the pun]?

    Image 1 - some examples of c/pots: there's the 'Benjamin Franklin Butler' pot of civil war fame [not Herculaneum]; and even...

    Image 2 - a 'W.E. Gladstone' pot [not Herculaneum].

    Image 3 - a creamware Jug [Herculaneum] showing the 'Apotheosis of Washington' c.1805.

    Image 4 - a Sailors jug [Herculaneum] which contained the sailor's prayer:

    From Rocks & Sands
    And every ill
    May God preserve,
    The Sailor still

    Apparently there is still a lot of this Herculaneum pottery in circulation [in the US & UK], and you can regularly find it on eBay. In production from 1796-1840.

    D.
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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi dazza

    I am sure the pottery-makers were entrepreneurs, prepared to sell their wares wherever they could, and if they could equally curry favor with the British with patriotically decorated wares as similarly products that would please the American market, well, why not?

    I was amused by the Gladstone chamber pot. A renowned son of Liverpool, although possibly a political enemy of his or two enjoyed using that particular "po". By the way... I read that the possibly the only off-color reference that Edgar Allan Poe made in his writings was in doing a pun on his name!!!

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    I am sure the pottery-makers were entrepreneurs, prepared to sell their wares wherever they could, and if they could equally curry favor with the British with patriotically decorated wares as similarly products that would please the American market, well, why not?
    Hi Chris,

    'Entrepreneurs' oh totally. I'd love to get my paws on some pro-American, British earthenware?

    The Gladstone pot, probably from [stick my neck out] the rival Wedgewood, Staffordshire kilns?

    Edgar Allan Poe, cheerful soul! I can't imagine having a beer with him in the Fly in the Loaf? Poe-faced before he even started drinking!

    Daz

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    I'm trying to ID this painting? Ship building on the Mersey?

    Herculaneum Pottery can be seen on the lower ground, to the extreme right, with chimneys shown. And also, what appears to be a tall mill/ chimney on the higher ground, to the left - possibly Scott's mill???


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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    3 Duke Street, Liverpool - 'Heculaneum Pottery Warehouse' from a lease taken out in 1807.


    Image: a business card, as shown in The Herculaneum Pottery, Peter Hyland's book - source not credited.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    I'm trying to ID this painting? Ship building on the Mersey?

    Herculaneum Pottery can be seen on the lower ground, to the extreme right, with chimneys shown. And also, what appears to be a tall mill/ chimney on the higher ground, to the left - possibly Scott's mill???

    The shipyard looks like in front of Brunswick Dock, where boats are repaired to this day. The ships mast to the right look like Toxteth Dock with Harrington Dock would be where the Pottery is.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Default Lancashire Illustrated Painting

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    The shipyard looks like in front of Brunswick Dock, where boats are repaired to this day. The ships mast to the right look like Toxteth Dock with Harrington Dock would be where the Pottery is.
    I've managed to do a bit of research on the painting since posting. It was originally featured in the "Lancashire Illustrated", by S. Austin & William Henry Pyne. The painting is called "Liverpool from the Mersey No.IV" There's a Google Books version of the Lancashire Illustrated, here. And there's a description of the scene featured on the painting on page 36.

    Brief extract here:

    'The ship-building yards which are exhibited in this plate, are situated between the river and the Salthouse Dock...'

    'The large warehouse, which occupies the centre of the plate, belongs to the estate of the late Duke of Bridgewater, who caused this building to be errected...'

    "The view is terminated by the Herculaneum Pottery, which competes with the great manufacturies of Staffordshire..."



    ----
    Source: Lancashire Illustrated, Series of Views: from original drawings By S. Austin & William Henry Pyne

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    I thought the pottery was either side of the sail. The description is right. The painting is before Albert Dock of course. Where Albert is was a large tobacco warehouse and on the river front shipyards. These were removed for Albert Dock. Lairds was here and eventually had to move across to Birkenhead as docks took the river and displaced the shipbuilding. Jones, Quiggin & Co were roughly were Coburg/Queens Docks are now. They built ships for the Confederates. The masts are mainly at Brunswick Dock, 1832, which originally dealt in timber, then a cargo-liner docks, with the Coburg pub being a place of stay for passengers.

    The warehouse is here at Dukes Dock - demolished 1964.
    Dukes Warehouse

    I put this together:
    Confederate Fleet
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I thought the pottery was either side of the sail. The description is right. The painting is before Albert Dock of course. Where Albert is was a large tobacco warehouse and on the river front shipyards.
    The potteries are directly above the buoy in the image. There's a whisper of smoke coming out of them. There also appears to be some land in the distant right, which I think could be step-back to the Dingle foreshore?

    The ship-building yards shown in the engraving were once part of Trentham Street which adjoined them, and was subsequently excavated during the construction of the Albert Dock. The old river wall [& slips] would be roughly in line with where Fred's floating weather map used to be? I reckon that frigate would hit it, if launched today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    I put this together:
    Confederate Fleet
    Looks fascinating WW. I'm going to have a good look through tomorrow.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    circa 1833
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    circa 1833
    Map above c.1833 ^ Brunswick Dock [shown above, far right] had only opened in 1832. This map is dated c.1833, so we should remove B.D. from our discussion about the painting/ engraving?

    Lancashire illustrated, from original drawings (1831) The "Liverpool from the Mersey — No. IV" engraving [1 of a series of 100] was especially commissioned for this book and was completed between 1828 and 1829, with the Lancashire Illustrated book being published in 1831.

    The absence of Brunswick is also supported by the text [in full below] which accompanied this engraving. The Queens Dock is the last cited on the south shore. No mention of Brunswick Dock, as it wouldn't be complete for another 3-4 years.



    Liverpool from the Mersey — No. IV.

    The ship-building yards which are exhibited in this plate, are situated between the river and the Salthouse Dock, and have long been occupied for their present uses. Notwithstanding the great quantity of shipping required to carry on the business of the port, the number of ships built in Liverpool was inconsiderable, when compared with the number annually launched at several insignificant towns on the north-east coast of England. This resulted more particularly from a combination among the journeymen shipwrights. Happily this confederacy no longer exists, and Liverpool may compete with other ports in naval architecture.

    The number of vessels belonging to the port in 1828 was 793, measuring 158,446 tons, and navigated by 8900 men. This statement, however, affords no criterion of the quantity of shipping actually employed here, as a great part of the trade is carried on by means of vessels belonging to other ports.

    The large warehouse, which occupies the centre of the plate, belongs to the estate of the late Duke of Bridgewater, who caused this building to be erected, and a Dock, contiguous to it, to be constructed, for the accommodation of the vessels employed in trading along his line of internal navigation. A branch of the Dock is beneath the roof of the building, by which arrangement goods may be warehoused without incurring any charge
    for cartage, or being subject to risk of injury from exposure to the weather.

    Farther south is shewn the King's Tobacco-warehouse, enclosing an area of three acres, one rood, and twenty-five perches, situated between the river and the King's Dock, erected by the Corporation, and rented by Government. All the tobacco imported is lodged here until the duties are paid, and the article examined. Whatever portion is damaged, so as to be unsaleable, is burnt within the premises, to prevent injury to the revenue. A gravelled terrace, extending the whole length of the King's Dock, lies between the warehouse and the river, and commands a fine view of the opposite shore.

    The entrance to the basin of the King and Queen's Docks immediately succeeds, and the view is terminated by the Herculaneum Pottery, which successfully competes with the great manufactories of Staff'ordshire, both in the quality and cheapness of its wares.

    We beg leave to add, that the series of Views now described, exhibits the most complete graphic delineation of Liverpool which has yet been presented to the public.






    Painting analysis: IMO, this is how I think the description fits. I've pushed the potteries further back, to account for the Queen's Dock ship-building yards, which would have been seen at the time.


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    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Herculaneum Pottery/Maritime Museum were in the news last year:
    http://liverpoolpreservationtrust.bl...-disaster.html

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    Quentin_Sharples
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    Default !843 Strangers Guide to Liverpool.

    These were the South Docks in 1843.
    I gave the previous dates in good faith.
    They're from the Annals and are correct, and presumably refer to when the Harrington and Herculaneum Docks were taken over by the Corporation.
    Prior to which they were private and rather small.

    I've sent contemporary maps to Dazza for him to wave his magic wand on.
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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Default Herculaneum Pottery - Site Location

    Notice the smaller Harrington & Herculaneum Docks on the 1845 map.

    When they decided to build Toxteth Dock - it appears that Harrington & Herculaneum Docks where moved further south to accommodate it and were substantially increased in size.


    All images sourced: LRO

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    1825 Pottery
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quentin_Sharples
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    I've just read one book about the Herculaneum Pottery and have started on a second.
    I didn't know much about it previously.
    Or the docks.

    The pottery had its own dock which existed from the time the premises were a copper smelting works (from 1771), and the dock survived for years after the pottery closed.

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    Default the herculanium pottery

    hello my name is elaine clayton i dont know if this is the right place to post so forgive me for beinh thick.
    i am interested in this pottery as my gr gr grans father went to work there from the potteries.just found that out yesterday.
    does anyone have nay info on these familes who came from the potteries? his name was moses bourne and he had two children born in liverpool.best wishes
    elaine clayton

    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Liverpool's forgotten Glory [with apologies to to Peter Hyland].


    Herculaneum Pottery was built on the south shore, Toxteth in 1796. It survived for only 44 years. One of the reasons cited for it's early demise was the rapid development of the Staffordshire Potteries. Even today, 'Herculaneum pottery' is much sought-after by collectors, as examples of early earthenware, creamware and china from Liverpool's industrial past.


    Image 1 ^ Herculaneum Pottery by George Codling, engraving as displayed on share certificates. c.1806. NML image.





    Image 2 ^ Pottery location. The Potteries closed 5 years after the John Bennison map was drawn, in 1840.

    D.

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Hi Elaine,

    I had a look in Peter Hyland's book The Herculaneum Pottery which gives the workers names for around the year c.1820 from an original factory document now lost. Unfortunately "Moses Bourne" is not listed among them. The Potteries life spans from 1796-1840 and this represents just one year in it's life.

    The potteries also had it's own on-site Methodist chapel and Sunday school. I'd check with Liverpool Record Office [LRO] to see whether they still have the Birth, Marriage & Deaths records as Moses Bourne may be recorded there?

    Cheers,

    Daz

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Herculaneum Pottery Warehouse, 3 Duke Street, Liverpool.

    "In March 1807 a 21 year old lease was taken" out on the building, which was owned by John Gregson [of Gregson's Well fame] for "150 guineas per annum". The warehouse was the shopfront of the southshore potteries, that existed in Toxteth from 1796-1840.

    The below insitu illustration has not been seen before. It is an attempt to fix the location of the warehouse, as it would appear today. The warehouse site, after the potteries, was turned in to an army barracks, which is noted on the 1848 Ordnance Survey map below.

    Credits: all text from Peter Hyland's informative book, The Herculaneum Pottery, illustrations from LRO, photographs are from Google Streetview.

    Also thanks to Quentin Sharples, for helping with the data. We will post further updates on the pottery site itself, next week.




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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool Herculaneum Pottery

    The Illustrated Guide to Liverpool Herculaneum Pottery, the title of Alan Smith's book, now out of print, offers us an early glimpse of the pottery site, both before the potteries were established, in image 1, and after the site was purchased and developed, in image 2.

    Both images 1 & 2 have been scanned from the above publication, and the text abstracted below.



    Image 1 [below] is a reconstruction of the site, when it was owned by the Copper Works of Charles Roe & Co. Around 1790.
    ^ Image 1.

    Index

    A. Buildings for the smelting of ores.
    B. Warehouse and Counting house.
    C. Yard for storing the ore.
    D. The Dock.
    E. Refining Furnaces.
    F. The Yard.
    G. Part of the Shore filled level with ciders.
    H. Pool, artificially enlarged.
    M. Copper Workers' Dwellings.
    P. Pool.
    ---



    Image 2 [below] is a Plan of the Herculaneum Pottery, around 1800.



    ^ Image 2.

    Index.

    A. Wellington Road.
    B. Kilns.
    C. The Mill.
    D. The Dock.
    E. Factory Gates and Front Office.
    F. The Chapel.
    G. Raised and Extended Shoreline.
    H. Reservoirs.
    I. Great Sea Hey.
    M. Potter's Dwellings.
    N. Factory Yard.
    O. Printing and Enamelling Shops.
    P. Throwing, Moulding and Glazing Rooms.
    Q. Packing Pattern-Room and Back Office.
    R. Crate Shop, Blacksmith's Shop and Stables.
    S. Tidal Reservoir for Scouring the Dock.

    The 'shaded area' is the extent of original damage to the map.
    ---



    Image 3 [below] is an attempt to fix the original Herculaneum Pottery site over today's developed land.

    The above image was the starting pointing. This was then laid over two OS maps from 1848 & 1906 to fix any remainding boundaries from the original site. ie: The original Dock, and extent of the pottery site was still shown. Finally, I've added the Google Earth view over the top for some context.


    ^ Image 3.



    Image 4 [below] is an enlargement of the above.


    ^ Image 4.




    ^ Image 5. Early Herdman view, sketched from where the round-about is shown on the google earth view.




    ^ Image 6. Another early sketch, dating from about 1825 of the same area.


    With thanks to Quentin Sharples, who's help I was grateful for, in putting this compilation together.

    Daz.

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    Nice one Daz, well done.

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    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    My Aunty lives just to the side of the two white "tanks" on the picture in the new flats overlooking the docks !

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squiggs View Post
    My Aunty lives just to the side of the two white "tanks" on the picture in the new flats overlooking the docks !
    Well squiggs, about 180 years ago, this would have been the view. Although you aunty would be living over the brow of the ridge shown, and her house would be on the lower land, but would of have a great view of the potteries.


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    Interesting stuff Dazza,and Quentin! The pottery wasn't actually there,for long,was it!?

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    Keeping It Real !!!!!!!!! ItsaZappathing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Well squiggs, about 180 years ago, this would have been the view. Although you aunty would be living over the brow of the ridge shown, and her house would be on the lower land, but would of have a great view of the potteries.

    Nicce one mate.

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    Senior Member dazza's Avatar
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    Thanks wsteve55.

    Herculaneum Pottery was established in 1796 and closed in 1840. A mere 44 years later.

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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Thanks wsteve55.

    Herculaneum Pottery was established in 1796 and closed in 1840. A mere 44 years later.
    Was that due to lack of demand?

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