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Thread: James Maybrick

  1. #106
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRobP View Post
    I know this is a forum about Liverpudlian Celebs so I don't want to turn it into a Jack The Ripper thread but... can someone tell me (as there seems to be quite a few Ripperologists here) why of the 11 murders added to the Whitechapel casefiles, only 5 are ever mentioned as being by the Ripper. The police at the time thought the others were and evidence still suggests that they were Ripper murders but no one ever mentions them.
    Hi again UKRobP

    Thanks for the info on your background, UKRobP. Glad that the link on the Maybrick event proved useful to you. Hopefully I will be able to meet you next month at the Maybrick Trial. I will be coming over from the U.S. for the event.

    You are 100% correct that the press at the time counted as many as eleven murders as being by Jack the Ripper extending earlier and later than the famous five murders of the "Autumn of Terror" of 1888.

    The so-called "canonical five" of Mary Ann ("Polly") Nichols (Aug 31), Annie Chapman (Sept 8), Elizabeth Stride (Sept 30), Catherine Eddowes (Sept 30) and Mary Jane Kelly (Nov 9) have been so classified together mainly because they were distinguished, except in one of the victims, by both the same deep neck cut and signature disembowelment. The exception being that no abdominal mutilation in the case of Stride where the traditional thought is that the killer was interrupted and he found a later victim the same night (Eddowes).

    The classification was proposed in Sir Melville Macnaghten's memoranda of 1894 to the Home Secretary but also concurs with the notes of Dr. Bond, one of the police surgeons (see http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=2658).

    Chris

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  2. #107
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool flypaper murders preceeding the Maybrick case

    Two pics of the Trinity Vaults, one from 1912, the other my own from 1990.

    Listed as 211 Athol street and 101 Latimer street. In the 1860s,the premises had the unusual name of the Chanticleer. Some of the locals are congregated on the corner whilst on the left in Athol street, there appears to be a party of school children with their teacher. Three brass balls, indicating a pawn shop faces the pub. This pub has now been converted into flats,the shops and houses either side have gone with neat new houses now surrounding the pub, belying a rather gruesome history.

    In 1883,just two doors away from the pub at 105 Latimer Street, seen on the old photograph,lived Catherine Flanagan,a lodging-house keeper. She and her sister, Margaret Higgins, became known as 'the Borgias of the slums', after Lucretia Borgia,a member of an old Italian noble family of Spanish origin, who became notorious as a poisoner.

    Whilst living in Skirving Street, they conspired to poison four people, three of them relatives, by using arsenic from flypaper which were sticky strips that were suspended from the ceiling to attract and kill flies, used in most houses up to the 1950s.After collecting the insurance on the deceased,they moved to Latimer street, with their crimes apparently undetected.

    However, they were soon on the move again,to the nearby Ascot street. Here, their murderous ways were to continue. Their victim this time, Thomas Higgins, suddenly took ill and, after writhing in excrutiating agony all night, died the next day. His death was certified as being from excessive drinking, but his brother's suspicions were aroused when he discovered that the deceased had life insurance with no less than six companies.

    The police were informed and subsequently a post-mortem ordered. This led to the other three bodies being exhumed, to find traces of arsenic in each of them. The two sisters were tried for murder.

    It was not until 1889 that another murder trial became internationally famous, that of American born Florence Maybrick, known as the flypaper poisoner. Although contraversial and well documented,the method she allegedly employed had already been used some years earlier by the sisters in question. Although never gaining the publicity of the Maybrick case, the murder trial of the two sisters was avidly followed locally. Eventually they were jointly charged with one murder and were hanged at Kirkdale Gaol during a snow storm in March 1884.

    Source: Freddy O'Connor's - A pub on every corner.
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  3. #108
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Two pics of the Trinity Vaults, one from 1912, the other my own from 1990.

    Listed as 211 Athol street and 101 Latimer street. In the 1860s,the premises had the unusual name of the Chanticleer. Some of the locals are congregated on the corner whilst on the left in Athol street, there appears to be a party of school children with their teacher. Three brass balls, indicating a pawn shop faces the pub. This pub has now been converted into flats,the shops and houses either side have gone with neat new houses now surrounding the pub, belying a rather gruesome history.

    In 1883,just two doors away from the pub at 105 Latimer Street, seen on the old photograph,lived Catherine Flanagan,a lodging-house keeper. She and her sister, Margaret Higgins, became known as 'the Borgias of the slums', after Lucretia Borgia,a member of an old Italian noble family of Spanish origin, who became notorious as a poisoner.

    Whilst living in Skirving Street, they conspired to poison four people, three of them relatives, by using arsenic from flypaper which were sticky strips that were suspended from the ceiling to attract and kill flies, used in most houses up to the 1950s.After collecting the insurance on the deceased,they moved to Latimer street, with their crimes apparently undetected.

    However, they were soon on the move again,to the nearby Ascot street. Here, their murderous ways were to continue. Their victim this time, Thomas Higgins, suddenly took ill and, after writhing in excrutiating agony all night, died the next day. His death was certified as being from excessive drinking, but his brother's suspicions were aroused when he discovered that the deceased had life insurance with no less than six companies.

    The police were informed and subsequently a post-mortem ordered. This led to the other three bodies being exhumed, to find traces of arsenic in each of them. The two sisters were tried for murder.

    It was not until 1889 that another murder trial became internationally famous, that of American born Florence Maybrick,known as the flypaper poisoner. Although contraversial and well documented,the method she allegedly employed had already been used some years earlier by the sisters in question. Although never gaining the publicity of the Maybrick case, the murder trial of the two sisters was avidly followed locally. Eventually they were jointly charged with one murder and were hanged at Kirkdale Gaol during a snow storm in March 1884.

    Source: Freddy O'Connor's - A pub on every corner.

    Ged have you been looking at the "what are you reading" thread before posting this here or has some sort of thought transmission gone on and you've just posted these here by coincidence. Is that pub stillstanding in another guise,wouldnt mind getting down there to have a look now you've pinpointed to me the site where they lived.

  4. #109
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Ste. it must be the latter because I don't think i've ever even visited that thread, let alone yesterday

    I will now though.
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  5. #110
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Wow Ste. What a genuine coincidence, it was just that I was looking through A pub on every corner for tower block pics, they're sometimes in the backdrop, and read this story that I don't think i'd taken any notice of before.

    The pub is still standing but converted into flats, i'm at Vauxhall road today so will post a pic up of it later for yer.
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  6. #111
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Interesting information, Ged and Ste. As I wrote in my recent article in Ripperologist about Sir Samuel Brighouse, the coroner who conducted the enquiry into the death of James Maybrick, opened at the Aigburth Hotel and thereafter at the Garston Reading Room, Wellington Road, I do think that the arsenic murders of Higgins and Flanagan, had a direct impact in influencing the coroner's jury, and thereafter the trial of Florence Maybrick, in persuading both juries that she had likely poisoned James Maybrick. And this despite the fact that Maybrick was a known arsenic addict. I think there is a good case to be made that Maybrick had in fact set up his own demise, in that it was the removal of his steady source of arsenic, in his regular self-dosing with arsenic, that led to his death.

    Chris
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  7. #112
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Ste and Chris. As this is the Maybrick thread, i'll post the pics I took of the Trinity pub as it looks now on the What book are you reading thread.
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  8. #113
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Ste and Chris. As this is the Maybrick thread, i'll post the pics I took of the Trinity pub as it looks now on the What book are you reading thread.
    Okay, thanks, Ged, I will look forward to seeing the pics.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  9. #114
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    Default 'Not Long To The Trial Now!'

    Hi Everyone,

    Nice to post here again, it's been a long time I know. To be honest I've not been in the brightest of moods lately and so inspiration and enthusiasm have been a bit low. Still, I will be seeing some of you next week at the Trial I hope. Really looking forward to meeting you Chris and my old sparring partner Jericho if he's attending. I am going to be getting the train up from Hastings to Aigburth station on Thursday so will be in town from Thursday night. I will be staying at the Innkeepers lodge, Liverpool South if anyone wants to look me up. I would like to know how far from Aigburth station that is? If anyone knows and could post here before Thursday It would be much appreciated. If it's not far then I'll walk it otherwise I'll have to find out about getting a taxi. I hope the weather is going to be much kinder to us all in Liverpool than it is down here! Look forward to meeting you all and discussing the diary soon!

  10. #115
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyMay View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Nice to post here again, it's been a long time I know. To be honest I've not been in the brightest of moods lately and so inspiration and enthusiasm have been a bit low. Still, I will be seeing some of you next week at the Trial I hope. Really looking forward to meeting you Chris and my old sparring partner Jericho if he's attending. I am going to be getting the train up from Hastings to Aigburth station on Thursday so will be in town from Thursday night. I will be staying at the Innkeepers lodge, Liverpool South if anyone wants to look me up. I would like to know how far from Aigburth station that is? If anyone knows and could post here before Thursday It would be much appreciated. If it's not far then I'll walk it otherwise I'll have to find out about getting a taxi. I hope the weather is going to be much kinder to us all in Liverpool than it is down here! Look forward to meeting you all and discussing the diary soon!
    Hello Tony

    Great to hear from you, Tony. I am looking forward to meeting you in Liverpool as well. Aigburth station is on Mersey Road which is the next main street over from Riversdale Road and the Cricket Club, opposite which you will find the Innkeepers lodge, so it's around three-quarters mile from the station to the lodge. You can even walk along the same footpath James Maybrick did, presumably, between Riversdale Road and Mersey Road, on the embankment overlooking the railway tracks. I will hope to catch up with you before the Maybrick Trial and may be able to meet you at the Lodge Thursday night or Friday before the coach tour which you will probably be on, will you? My wife Donna and I will be taking it.

    Tony, have a look at the Liverpool map on Streetmap.co.uk which shows the area. I punched in "Aigburth Station" although I am not sure what the arrow is supposed to represent. The station though is the red blob to the left of the arrow and the Travel Lodge should be just to the left of the "G" in Grassendale. You might actually be a bit closer to get off at the Cressington Station. I am a bit surprised that you can get a train from Hastings and be able to get off at Aigburth (or Cressington) as I would have thought you would have to travel into downtown Liverpool but you probably know better having booked your train ticket.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  11. #116
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Hi Tony,

    Aigburth railway station is closer to your hotel than Cressington. When you come out of the station turn right and walk to the top of Mersey Road. Turn right into Aigburth Road and continue walking until you reach the cricket club on the corner of Riversdale Road (look to your right and you will see Battlecrease House). Your hotel is opposite the cricket club on the other side of the dual carriageway. Total distance from the station about 800 metres. 8 minutes of easy walking.

    If you are travelling from Euston your train will go into Lime Street station and you will have to get across to Central station (it's well signposted, about a 5 minute walk) and take the Northern Line to Aigburth. Trains run every 15 minutes and the destination on the front of the train is Hunts Cross.

    A taxi ride from Lime Street to your hotel will cost you about £10.

    If you fancy a bus ride, take the 82 and ask the driver to let you know when you have arrived at Liverpool (Aigburth) cricket club.

    BTW - have you seen the recent comments on your poetry?

  12. #117
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Smile 'Thanks For All Your Help'

    Hi Chris, Hi Jericho,

    Thanks so much for all your help once again. It sounds as if the lodge is easily walkable from Aigburth station. I thought it shouldn't be far because James used to talk about using the station to get to work. Chris, it would be lovely to meet up with you and your wife before the trial starts. I will be getting the 9.47 train from Hastings tomorrow so should be at the lodge by around 5pm ish. If you'd like to meet me for a drink later that evening or maybe the following day sometime I'd like that very much. Sadly, I don't have a mobile phone so I don't know how were going to get in touch with each other? Maybe you could leave a message for me at the lodge? I will make a point of asking if I have any messages when I arrive. I have also reserved a ticket for the jeremy Beadle quiz night so i hope you are going to that as well. Talked with Chris jones on the phone and it sounds as if the quiz will be fun. I think I will be a little 'out of my depth' talking to some 'real experts' on the case but I hope I will 'hold my own' at least when discussing James!

    Look forward to seeing you soon,

    Tony.

  13. #118
    Senior Member marie's Avatar
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    http://www.slemen.com/

    I found this web site some days ago. I was very affraid!! Then I was looking for more information in others web. Differents teories about it.
    But if it is true, the owner of the clock, a guard who lives in Birkenheand, who bought the clock for L225 in the last decade, will be rich now... and the owner of the diary too.

    I was thinking that was a history not real. I saw Jack The Ripper´s film in the Spanish Tv somes years ago. The film said, was a doctor of the Real Family, and for that, the history was closed to the population.

    I was reading about other histories about Wavertree. Maybe, someone can help me. I am looking for a book, which tell the histories about this area, the gosth of Church Rd., etc.

    Thanx u!!

  14. #119
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Default 'What A Fantastic Three Day's'

    Hi Everyone,

    For me, the recent 'Trial Of James Maybrick' and subsequent 5 day holiday in Liverpool was I must say the holiday from HEAVEN!
    Chris Jones of Liverpool cricket club was amazing and put on a great event. Jeremy Beadle was also great. Not only was he fun, he was knowledgeable and approachable too. He didn't ebven hit me when I suggested that a lot of the ripperologists on the casebook of jack the ripper were sure to say that Maybrick had been framed if he were to be found guilty with him as the judge! Nice man Jeremy.
    In fact it was nice to meet SO MANY nice people AND have something in common with all of them too! I really enjoyed meeting you Hargy, you really gave me a start when you looked at me and said 'Your Tony May aren't you?' HA HA HA Fame at last!!! I look forward to the photo soon! Chris - my 'main man' it was great to meet you also. I only wish we'd had more time to get together for a 'proper chat'. Things seemed to move along at the trial at such a pace that we never really got the chance to have a drink together, sit down, 'swap notes' and get to know each other did we? Never mind, I'm sure you will have plenty to say on here at some point about it all... not least the GUILTY verdict! HA HA HA HA (I'll expect some flak for that cheeky remark!!!) I hope you have a great time on the Isle Of wight and if you find out anything on Michael Maybrick please post it here!!!
    Jericho, you are a star!!! I followed your instructions to the letter on how to use the public transport to get to my hotel. Along with the fact that the place you told me to book was within SPITTING DISTANCE of where I wanted to be I reckon I owe you a few beers if ever I'm in town again!! Thanks a lot!!
    As far as Maybrick is concerned, I am now totally convinced that he DID write the diary and that further corrobarative evidence will eventually come to light to this fact. The Jack The Ripper thing however will still run and run even if it is eventually accepted that he did write the diary. Why? because even if it could be CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN that James Maybrick wrote the diary of Jack The Ripper, I don't think we will ever be able to PROVE that he actually killed any of them. But then isn't this just what makes the whole ripper tale so facinating?

  15. #120
    Junior Member queentutti's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the trial was recorded as I would love to see it

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