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Thread: James Maybrick

  1. #31
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Default Found it!

    Hi Chris/Everyone,

    I have uploaded with this message a photo of the examples of handwriting given to me by my school teacher I mentioned in an earlier post.
    I hope you all appreciate my efforts today! I spent most of this morning rummaging through boxes in my atic looking for this. Ironically in the end I found it in a tin in an upstairs cupboard!
    I must admit however that I did mis-remember the name of the teacher that had given it to me. It was not a Mr May but a Mr Ricketts who's class I was in at the Grove School in Hastings in 1980. I swear to God and on my mothers life that these passages were written in front of my own eyes and that they are genuine.
    As far as proving or disproving my point that the handwriting style of the diary is not of the upmost importance however, being objective and fair, I think the jury's still out. While these examples of handwriting are quite different (especially the third example) and show different tendencies in the way that the downstrokes of the y's etc are formed, I can see myself that all three still look as if they have been made by the same hand. Not having seen that many examples of James Maybricks handwriting (I am EXCLUDING his will as I feel it ungenuine) I am therefore unable to say wether the writing style of the diary is or is not THAT dissimilar to James known hand. Perhaps you could help out there Chris?
    So guy's over to you, what arte your thoughts now?

    Best Regards,

    Tony.


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  2. #32
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Tony

    I don't find the writing examples you have provided to be so extraordinarily different that they could not have been made by the same individual. Variations in writing style might be due to illness or age and infirmity, for example. A handwriting expert recently looked at the writing of Detective Superintendent Donald Swanson annotating the memoirs of his superior, Sir Robert Anderson, deputy commissioner of the Yard at the time of the Ripper murders, and the expert could not be entirely sure whether the notations, made years apart, were by the same person. Certainly in the samples you show, the signatures in two of the samples are fairly similar -- the top one and the bottom one -- while the one in the middle is different because the writer uses block letters instead of cursive style for the initials, and the signature just looks more formal than the scrawl used to write the other two signatures.

    Tony, you talked about something being "too good to be true", and that is just how I feel about the Maybrick candidacy, that when I first heard about Maybrick being touted as the Ripper, I could not believe it. Knowing previously about the Maybrick case, and having read Trevor Christie's book before the Diary surfaced, I was just astounded that Maybrick might have been the Ripper, and it just seemed unlikely to me.

    Now, of course it would be foolish to close the door on him having done the murders. Conceivably he could have been the Whitechapel murderer and the Diary still be a hoax. As you probably know, it has been suggested that possibly allies of Florence Maybrick might have written the Diary to help with her case, to get her out of jail. I suppose that is not unimpossible (there's a double negative for you!) that she might have had some suspicion he could have been the murderer and someone took that suspicion and manufactured the Diary. One of the things that intrigues me is to find out who wrote the Diary and why.

    Best regards

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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  3. #33
    Newbie Hargy's Avatar
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    Default James Maybrick

    Hi,
    Just wanted to say hello. I've just signed up to this forum. I see that you are not a believer in the James Maybrick theory. I have to say that I am.
    I have been a keen ripperologist for many years and have a vast collection of ripper paraphernalia.
    I have very recently been lucky enough to acquire a 1st edition signed copy of Mrs Maybricks Own Story 'My lost fifteen years' . When I have had the chance to read it (it will probably take me some time as I feel that I will have to read it whilst wearing gloves!) I will be able to hopefully increase my knowledge and conclude my personal belief, that James Maybrick really was Jack the ripper.
    Looking forward to hearing from you.
    All the best
    Hargy.(Sue)

  4. #34
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Default Hi Sue, Good to have you on board!

    Hi Sue/Chris/Everyone.

    Sue...
    Nice to hear from another pro-diaryist and I'm very envious about you getting your hands on a copy of Mrs Maybricks book. I have to say however (and no doubt Chris will know about this also) that according to the reports I've heard about the book it dosen't actually shed much light on James maybrick at all more on Florrie's life in prison. As I've posted here before Sue the book you really need to learn about James is 'Etched In Arsenic' by Trevor Christie or (to a lesser degree) 'The Poisoned Life Of Mrs Maybrick' by Bernard Ryan.

    Chris...

    Thanks so much for the tip off about the Australian connection to the origin of the diary. So far I have read the first five pages of the forum and must say that I've found it extremely interesting. I have, despite being very much a believer in the diary, long thought that it was possible that the version of the diary that Anne Graham gave to Mike Barrett was not the original. As you and so many other people correctly point out the handwriting in the diary is of considerable concern to those of us that believe that the words were indeed written by James Maybrick. To my mind at least the story about this Steven Park may have some truth in it in the respect that the guy sounds to me to have the right kind of psychological profile for the job. If the diary that we all know (and love! HA HA HA) is a word for word copy of the ORIGINAL version then it would explain why what the diary tells us is so compelling but the provenence and the handwriting are not. The Aussie guy that tells us about Steven Park (can't recall what his name was grrr) places these events around the late 1960's. According to Anne Graham I believe she says that she did not go to Australia until 1970 but then again if Anne was indeed in cohoots with Park she probably would claim this. However the point I'm trying to make is that IF these events really did happen I believe that I am correct when I say that knowledge of the Tin matchbox was not in the public domain until 1987. If I am correct about this then it is fair to assume I feel that whoever forged the diary that we now have MUST have been copying from a manuscript or document from the period of the murders. If this is also correct then I could be right that the diary we have is NOT the original. For me the diary just contains so much that makes sense about the murders to be a fake. The psychology is pretty water tight too and the forgers have just had too much 'luck' concerning known events. Then of course there is the sheer amount of research and reading that they would have to have done to produce something like the diary. I also point out here Chris that should they have done such an amount of research why would they then deliberately fly in the face of what most books on the ripper would tell them namely that Jamnes Maybrick 'claims' in the diary to have been responsible for the Dear Boss letter. Personally I don't think that James did write the ORIGINAL Dear Boss letter but, as a killer following press reports of his deeds at the time, decided to 'adopt' the first one and send a few 'follow up's' of his own.
    I believe that James WAS responsible for the letter that was written on the front of a newspaper ( the one with the Liverpool businessman story Chris) and possibly others (one in particular gave the police the address that he was living at in the Liverpool area...on checking this I found that the nearby street had James in the title...another of James's 'funny little jokes' I believe.
    God, haven't I been going On! Better stop there and give you lot a chance to reply!

    ALL hands on deck, prepare to repel boarders!! HA HA HA HA

    Tony.

  5. #35
    Newbie Hargy's Avatar
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    Default maybrick

    Hi Tony ,
    Thanks for the reply I can see I'm going to have lots of fun on this forum and since speaking to you I have now acquired 'Etched in Arsenic' how spooky is that? And by the way I'm not loaded,I've just been in the right place at the right time !
    Speak soon
    Sue.

  6. #36
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hello Sue and Tony

    Welcome to the forum, Sue. I hope you enjoy your time here. I was interested to learn that like Tony you are a Maybrickite! Obviously I am not, as you read above, although I am fascinated by the "mystery" of how the Diary came to be. As I noted in my last posting, it is not outside the realm of possibility that James Maybrick could have been the Ripper, but I don't think the Diary, as it exists, proves that he was, first and foremost because it is not in his handwriting. The possibility that there could have been an earlier version of the Diary in James's writing has been suggested before, although one would think that the best proof that Maybrick was the Ripper would be to produce that original diary. What happened to it... if it ever existed???

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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  7. #37
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Default Spooky Indeed!

    Hi Sue,

    Well done! You will enjoy that book I can tell you. For me it really brought to life the whole picture of Maybricks life. Without giving too much away, the book does include a reference from a small American girl that from time to time stayed with the Maybricks (can't recall her name now) that James did possess a fearsome temper. Obviously this is in no way evidence that he was Jack The Ripper but it does I feel add a little weight to the psychology of the writing in the diary. "Tonight I shall reward myself, I will visit mine, but I will not be gentle I will show my ***** what I am capable of". In fact Florrie herself advised Alfred Brierley (the man with whom she was having an affair) to think about leaving the country as she feared if 'Jim' were to find out he'd kill him.
    Anyway, I shall rant on no more except to say ENJOY! ENJOY!

    All the best,

    Tony.

    P.S) Oh, I forgot to tell you, the copy I have of the book cropped up at the very first bookshop I looked in right at the start of my interest in the diary. I've not seen another copy since...perhaps my role in all of this is to be James's witness! HA HA HA HA (Silly Arse)

  8. #38
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Tony and Sue

    Tony, the correspondent you are thinking of who was the young girl who visited the Maybricks' household was Florence Aunspaugh, the daughter of a business acquaintance of James Maybrick's and who told her story to author Trevor Christie, author of Etched in Arsenic (1968), in the 1940's.

    In verifying the spelling of her name I came across a PDF copy of Dr. William Rubinstein's "The Hunt for Jack the Ripper published in History Today in May 2000, pp. 10-19. Now Dr. Rubinstein, whom I met at the Liverpool convention at the Britannia Adelphi in 2003, is rather too much in the Diary camp for my liking -- that means of course that he is a mate of yours!

    What is also odd about his article is that while Dr. Rubinstein talks about the Diary in the singular, the editor of History Today has given the article a subtitle blurb and a photo caption in which they talk about the "Ripper Diaries" a term that keeps cropping up in UK newspaper accounts of the Diary. There is and only (as far as we know) been one and only one Diary, or at least there is only one in existence now. So why that terminology keeps cropping up I don't know. It seems to partly derive from the fact that the hoax "Hitler Diaries" comprised more than one diary.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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  9. #39
    Newbie Hargy's Avatar
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    Hi Tony/Chris,

    Thanks for the comments. Maybe you could help me but has anyone actually proved beyond a doubt that the diary is a forgery?

    To my understanding the diary was put through a number of rigorous tests ie.
    on the ink itself ,and was proved to be pre 1921. As for the handwriting I understand that people suffering from a multiple-personallity disorder will write in many different ways (one for each personality) so what is to say that this was not the case?
    If the ink tests pre-date it to 1921 then then how did the writer acquire so much information? The only people with so much information would have been some of the policemen who worked on the case or the killer himself.
    Kind regards, Sue.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Sue

    No the Diary has not been conclusively proven to be a hoax because no one has been proven conclusively to have forged it.

    Obviously scientific tests are not always accurate and often they will rely on a control sample that might be contaminated, for example. So I am not sure of the ink test that gave a date of circa 1920 to the Diary or, for example, of the metal test that said the scratches in the alleged Maybrick watch owned by Albert Johnson are "decades old." But yes I will admit that those results were found.

    However, anti-Diarists, such as myself, point out that the wording in the Diary, "one tin match box empty" also found in a police list only made public in 1988 and published in books thereafter. This makes a number of us suspicious that the Diary was concocted in 1988 or later. Also the evident goof whereby the Poste House in Cumberland Street is given that name in the Diary, though some argue another place informally given that name might have been meant, was named the Muck Midden in 1888-1889.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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  11. #41
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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  12. #42
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Hello Jericho

    Michael Barrett's confessions are the subject of controversy. He has since retracted what he said, and his confessions might be down to his drinking problem or a sudden desire to lay claim to producing the Diary whose origins are not totally clear to investigators who have looked into his confessions and into the Diary itself. For example, Mr. Barrett claims that he bought the book for the Diary from the auctioneers Outhwaite & Litherland. It is a Victorian scrapbook or commonplace book which may have contained photographs -- the first sixty odd pages were cut out. But his story has not been verified by the auctioneers -- in fact they said they do not conduct auctions in the manner that Mr. Barrett has described.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  13. #43
    Newbie Hargy's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    I would be interested to know if you have any opinions on who you think could be a possible suspect.

    Cheers, sue.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Unless I'm missing something, the diary is so obviously a hoax. Why does anyone give it the time of day? Of course, this doesn't mean that Maybrick could not be the ripper.

    What reason did Barrett give for retracting his confession? The calculated and carefully planned way in which Barrett went about the hoax indicates to me that whatever his problems were with booze, he was able to think lucidly when he needed to.

    Why do people think that Florence poisoned her husband? He sure looks like a psychopath but then so does nearly everyone else in the rogues' gallery of potential rippers. Maybe it was something about the manner in which photographs were taken in those days?

  15. #45
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hello Jericho

    Mike Barrett appeared at the Cloak and Dagger Club in April 1999 and gave a very incoherent performance. He has contradicted himself on a number of occasions. He is supposed to appear at the Maybrick Trial in May at the Liverpool Cricket Club.

    Chris Jones, organizer of the 19–20 May 2007 event at the Cricket Club says: ‘Michael Barrett, the man who brought the so-called Ripper Diary to the attention of the world, is to attend the Trial of James Maybrick. Mr Barrett who, by his own admission, led a rather turbulent and troubled life since the diary came to light, now feels that his problems are all behind him and he wants to put the record straight. He wants to tell the full and truthful story of how he came into possession of the diary and how the pressure of the world’s media affected his health. He is also prepared to answer questions from the audience.’ We will just wait and see.

    Barrett's written confessions admittedly do sound as if he could have been very organized in going about the hoax, however, as I say, everything he says does not quite pan out. The authors of Ripper Diary: The Inside Story (Sutton Publishing, 2003), Seth Linder, Caroline Morris, and Keith Skinner, don't put much store in what Barrett says and they maintain that the origins of the Diary remain murky despite all the indications that it is a forgery.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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  16. #46
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Thanks, Chris.

    Is the trial at the Cricket Club by invitation only? It sounds fun, tongue in cheek? Are tickets available?

    I really like some of the dustjacket quotations accompanying The Ripper Diary: The Inside Story

    Objectivity requires taking subjectivity into account."
    - Lorraine Code (That name has GOT to be made up)

    Sometimes we remain true to a cause simply because its opponents are unfailingly tasteless."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "What a long, strange trip its been."
    - The Grateful Dead (Maybe Jerry Garcia is communing with Maybrick as we speak?)

    Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way"- Jules Winnfield (Pulp Fiction)

    It's all darkly compelling!

  17. #47
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Thanks, Chris.

    Is the trial at the Cricket Club by invitation only? It sounds fun, tongue in cheek? Are tickets available?

    I really like some of the dustjacket quotations accompanying The Ripper Diary: The Inside Story

    Objectivity requires taking subjectivity into account."
    - Lorraine Code (That name has GOT to be made up)

    Sometimes we remain true to a cause simply because its opponents are unfailingly tasteless."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "What a long, strange trip its been."
    - The Grateful Dead (Maybe Jerry Garcia is communing with Maybrick as we speak?)

    Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way"- Jules Winnfield (Pulp Fiction)

    It's all darkly compelling!
    Hi Jericho

    It should be a fun weekend and it is open to the public. The price is £38 for the weekend without added activities. Venue: Liverpool Cricket Club, 19–20 May 2007. Call: Chris Jones, 07932 642344 or email c.jones@gateacre.liverpool.sch.uk. Cheques should be made payable to the ‘Liverpool Cricket Club’ and sent to Mr Jones at Chris Jones, 27 Maidstone Close, Halewood, Merseyside, L25 9GG, UK. According to Mr Jones, ‘On the Friday night (18th May) there will be a coach tour of the Maybricks’ Liverpool on vintage coaches (one dates from 1945). It will leave the Cricket Club at 6:30pm visiting, Aigburth, Grassendale, Liverpool City Centre and Anfield Cemetery (where James is buried). The coaches return to the club at 8:30pm. The tour is followed by a band/social event in club. Places on the tour are limited to 120. There is an extra cost of £5 for the tour - all money to a local charity. On Saturday lunchtime there will be a special display of the Maybrick watch and Albert Johnson, the owner of the watch, will be available to answer questions. On Saturday night, Jeremy Beadle will run a fun quiz night. All money raised will go to charity. On Sunday lunchtime there will be a visit to the grounds of Battlecrease House, James and Florence [Maybrick]’s home. Paul Dodd the current owner of the house will be available to answer questions.’

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
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    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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  18. #48
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Thanks, Chris. I'm tempted - although I might give Jeremy Beadle a miss!

  19. #49
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Here's the latest on the Maybrick event upcoming in May as posted by organizer Chris Jones on Casebook: Jack the Ripper:

    Maybrick Trial Programme is Finalised

    The programme for the Trial of James Maybrick at Liverpool Cricket club in May 2007 has been finalised. James was a former member of the Cricket Club in the 1880s. The event is fully supported by the Liverpool European Capital of Culture 08 Company and it could prove to be one of their biggest events in 2007. Tickets for the event have been sold worldwide.

    The final programme is very similar to the one printed at the start of this thread. The main change is that Mike Barrett has been provided with an opportunity to speak before Shirley Harrison. He is of course is the man who discovered the Diary and brought it to the attention of the world. He is a very controversial figure who has changed his story about events surrounding the diary on more than one occasion. However, he has promised to tell the full and completely truthful story of how he came into possession of the diary and how valid he feels the document to be.

    Giving evidence at the event will be some of the top Maybrick experts and Ripperologists. They include Shirley Harrison, author of the controversial book, The Diary of Jack the Ripper, and Professor David Canter, the highly respected Head of the Department of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University. Paul Begg and Donald Rumbelow will be leading the attack on the Diary as a historical document and James being a realistic suspect for the Ripper murders. There will be opportunites for people from the audience to question all the speakers. We want a full and honest debate. All who attend the event will form the jury.

    Attending the Trial will also be many of the descendents of the people who were actually involved in events surrounding the Maybricks in the 1880s, including some of James Maybrick’s descendents. We also have direct descendents of Gerald Brierley (Florence's lover), Nurse Yapp and Florence's lawyers. We are hoping that the details of Florence's Will (which has never been published) will be made available for people attending the Trial. I'm told there could be some shocks in store when it sees the light of day!!!

    Interest in the Trial is especially great in the United States as Florence Maybrick, James’ wife, was an American citizen and she remains today the only American woman ever to be charged with murder in this country. William Friedkin, the famous Hollywood Director of films such as The Exorcist and the French Connection, is to visit Liverpool next year to attend the Trial of James Maybrick. Friedkin is attending the trial as he is planning to make a film about Florence’s life story.

    The Trial is to be preceded on the Friday night by a tour of sites in Liverpool associated with James and Florence Maybrick. The tour will include his former homes in Aigburth, the city centre, where he also lived and worked and his grave in Anfield Cemetery. A highlight of the tour will be a visit to St. George’s Hall, the scene of Florence’s infamous trial for the murder of James. To make the tour even more enjoyable it will take place on vintage coaches.

    There are also two lunchtimes sessions. On Saturday Albert Johnson will be present with the 'Maybrick Watch'. On Sunday there will be a visit to Battlecrease House, James and Florence's home.

    Tickets for the two-day event are still available, priced £38. Further details of the trial can be obtained from Chris Jones, the event organiser at the Liverpool Cricket Club. We are confident that the truth about James Maybrick will finally emerge. James will either be vindicated or he could be identified as one of the most notorious serial killers in history.

    I can be contacted on 07932-642344 or e-mail:
    c.jones@gateacre.liverpool.sch.uk

    Hope to see at least some of you. Liverpool is a great city.

    Chris Jones
    Christopher T. George
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  20. #50
    Member TonyMay's Avatar
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    Hi Everyone,

    Wow, you have all 'written well' since my last visit!

    Thanks Chris for the link to 'The Hunt For Jack The Ripper' I will enjoy digesting that when I get the chance and post a bit of feedback here when I have. I am getting more and more upset though at not being able to attend the trial of James Maybrick in May. The itinerary sounds positively mouthwatering and I just know I would get to meet some really interesting people. As for the appearance of Michael Barrett it will be interesting to see just what he actually say's this time. I do feel very sorry for the poor chap in a way because (as I don't think that he did forge the diary) the whole diary thing for him must have be a nightmare. A nightmare no doubt that he now feels so entangled within that he just dosen't know how to make it all stop. Does anyone know whether any of the event is going to be filmed?
    I for one would pay handsomely for footage of the event and I'm sure there would be a market for it in this day of DVD.
    I'd like to ask Jericho just why he is so sure that the diary is a fake? To say that he wonders why anyone has given the diary the time of day is a bold statement but one that to my mind shows him to lack an open mind from the outset on the subject. Please understand however that when I say this I do not mean to criticise Jericho simply to question him. Maybe you could respond to this and explain your side of the story?
    Finally maybe Chris could help us all out again with this one. I believe Chris that Trevor Christie the author of 'Etched In Arsenic' left behind a lot of additional material/notes from his research at the time. Do you know whether any researcher has ever gone through a lot of this extra stuff and if so what it was found to contain?

    That's all for now,

    All the best.

    Tony.

  21. #51
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyMay View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Wow, you have all 'written well' since my last visit!

    Thanks Chris for the link to 'The Hunt For Jack The Ripper' I will enjoy digesting that when I get the chance and post a bit of feedback here when I have. I am getting more and more upset though at not being able to attend the trial of James Maybrick in May. The itinerary sounds positively mouthwatering and I just know I would get to meet some really interesting people. As for the appearance of Michael Barrett it will be interesting to see just what he actually say's this time. I do feel very sorry for the poor chap in a way because (as I don't think that he did forge the diary) the whole diary thing for him must have be a nightmare. A nightmare no doubt that he now feels so entangled within that he just dosen't know how to make it all stop. Does anyone know whether any of the event is going to be filmed?
    I for one would pay handsomely for footage of the event and I'm sure there would be a market for it in this day of DVD.
    I'd like to ask Jericho just why he is so sure that the diary is a fake? To say that he wonders why anyone has given the diary the time of day is a bold statement but one that to my mind shows him to lack an open mind from the outset on the subject. Please understand however that when I say this I do not mean to criticise Jericho simply to question him. Maybe you could respond to this and explain your side of the story?
    Finally maybe Chris could help us all out again with this one. I believe Chris that Trevor Christie the author of 'Etched In Arsenic' left behind a lot of additional material/notes from his research at the time. Do you know whether any researcher has ever gone through a lot of this extra stuff and if so what it was found to contain?

    That's all for now,

    All the best.

    Tony.
    Hi Tony,

    I'll do my best.

    My main concerns are:

    (1) Barrett has said it was a scam (and subsequently retracted, and then...) I guess we'll gain a better idea after his 'trial' sorry, speech, at the cricket club in May. I hope to be there and I hope I get the opportunity to speak to him.

    (2) Historical inaccuracies in the text. Too much slippage between modern Liverpool and Maybrick's Liverpool. The 'tone' of the 'diary' doesn't feel right for the time - again it seems too modern. Like a BBC update of one of Jane Austen's novels - the sensibility is all wrong. Of course, this is my subjective response, and it's only to the diary.

    I still think Maybrick is a strong candidate.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Hi Tony,

    I'll do my best.

    My main concerns are:

    (1) Barrett has said it was a scam (and subsequently retracted, and then...) I guess we'll gain a better idea after his 'trial' sorry, speech, at the cricket club in May. I hope to be there and I hope I get the opportunity to speak to him.

    (2) Historical inaccuracies in the text. Too much slippage between modern Liverpool and Maybrick's Liverpool. Like a BBC update of one of Jane Austen's novels - the sensibility is all wrong. Of course, this is my subjective response, and it's only to the diary.

    I still think Maybrick is a strong candidate.

    Hello Jericho

    I find it very interesting that although you believe in James Maybrick's candidacy as Jack the Ripper that you don't feel comfortable with the Diary. That as you say, "The 'tone' of the 'diary' doesn't feel right for the time - again it seems too modern."

    I have to concur with this feeling. I have been a consistent of the opponent of the Diary from the beginning and I have to say that there is a lot about it that simply feels contrived and artificial.

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hello Jericho

    I find it very interesting that although you believe in James Maybrick's candidacy as Jack the Ripper that you don't feel comfortable with the Diary.
    It's purely intuitive (whimsical). The diary sets forth a series of coincidences (regardless of who wrote it) that whet my appetite. The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that there's more than a little something of the dark and deadly night about Maybrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    It's purely intuitive (whimsical). The diary sets forth a series of coincidences (regardless of who wrote it) that whet my appetite. The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that there's more than a little something of the dark and deadly night about Maybrick.
    Hi, Jericho

    Well, the Diary makes him look that way. But is it a reflection of the real-life James Maybrick? I am not alone in thinking that the Diary might blacken the name of an innocent man.

    Certainly to the extent that he was a man who was an addict addicted to arsenic and strychnine and that he kept a mistress even after he married Florie he seems to have led a double life. I wonder though whether that double life meant he could have been Jack?

    I believe Tom Slemen has pointed out that Maybrick was a hypochondriac and may have been repelled by the sight of blood, so I have to wonder as does Tom whether Maybrick had the stomach to do those bloody murders.

    All the best

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi, Jericho

    Well, the Diary makes him look that way. But is it a reflection of the real-life James Maybrick? I am not alone in thinking that the Diary might blacken the name of an innocent man.
    Certainly to the extent that he was a man who was an addict addicted to arsenic and strychnine and that he kept a mistress even after he married Florie he seems to have led a double life. I wonder though whether that double life meant he could have been Jack?

    I believe Tom Slemen has pointed out that Maybrick was a hypochondriac and may have been repelled by the sight of blood, so I have to wonder as does Tom whether Maybrick had the stomach to do those bloody murders.

    All the best

    Chris
    Presumably the concern about blackening the name of an innocent man applies to most if not all of the contenders? Why feel any more tender hearted about Maybrick than some of the others?

    His duplicity is beyond a shadow of a doubt. Like most serial killers, what appears on the surface cloaks what scratches away underneath. I bet to his doctor he did indeed seem repelled by the sight of blood.

    I wonder why.

    Maybe he found it difficult to contain the emotions the red stuff stirred in him? Once it's spilt ...

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    I hope you realise that the above is said with tongue firmly in cheek but still able to do this

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    Hi All,

    Firstly can I say thank you to Jericho for his response to my request for further info on just why he feels/felt able to dismiss the diary so quickly. Like Chris however I do find it strange to hear you say that you still believe Maybrick could be a strong candidate in light of the reasons you have given for dismissing the diary. As far as I can see, if you accept that Michael Barrett (or anyone else for that matter) forged the diary then there really cannot be any other reason to suspect that James had anything to do with the murders whatsoever. He was not connected to the enquiry at the time, and had not even been thought of as a suspect until the diary came to light so, in fairness to him, If we believe the diary to be a fake I think we should all acknowledge his innocence. Once again Jericho please do not take these comments of mine the wrong way, I do not intend to 'have a go' at you or decry your opinion but am simply responding to what you've said in an honest way.
    You (and Chris) both mentioned the Poste House discrepancy in the diary. I accept that this is indeed a genuine bone of contention and, should the diary be a forgery, an obvious mistake. However there are I feel two possibilities that could explain this away. 1) That the place now called The Poste House is NOT the same venue meant by the writer of the diary at all and that we have all just assumed that this must have been where James meant, or 2) That The Muck Midden may well have been 'nicknamed' The Poste House for some reason at the time by the regulars at the flags which James frequented. If this is so, it might explain why when The Muck Midden was re-named it was then called The Poste House by the new owners. In saying this Chris and all I am assuming that The Poste House was the subsequent name for the building so please excuse me if this in incorrect.
    As far as the point about James being a hypercondriac and therefore would be incapable of committing such acts goes, I think all of you are again falling into the trap of thinking too logically. By this I mean that when you are suffering with a mental or emotional illness (as I feel it is obvious that the diary writer was) you simply do not act in the way that you would do normally. Now I do not mean this statement to be taken as me apparently 'telling you all off because I know better' because obviously I don't. I HAVE however suffered a lot of my life with depression and had both councilling, medication and group therapy for it and for this reason I feel I can say that I believe that a man such as Maybrick in the kind of situation that he found himself in COULD have been capable of committing extremely violent acts fuelled by temporary bouts of extreme depression or insanity. I myself have blown all of the glass from my bedroom window in onto myself by slamming a bowed window that wouldn't shut shut. Thankfully, on that occasion I suffered only minor cuts to my face but it was a crazy thing to do and one that I undoubtedly would not have done had I been thinking straight. On that occasion all my pent up resentment, frustration and hatred was taken out on a simple window frame but I can easily believe that a man like Maybrick whose wife was having an affair could very much be tempted to meat out his 'revenge' on other '*****s' as he reffered to his wife.
    Oh, God now I've got you all thinking what a psycho I am haven't I? Well I can assure you that I am not, what I am is simply a very open and honest man that is thoroughly enjoying this facinating debate!

    Over to you!

    All the best,

    Tony.

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    Hi Tony

    Many thanks for your interesting post. In regard to the last part of your message and the incident with the shattered window, I hear you that sometimes people do have temporary insanity as it were. I am normally a placid and even tempered bloke but when something gets my rag I can completely see red and really lose it. So I can well understand the frustration that you had with the window that wouldn't shut.

    As for the "Poste House" question, I think that people who try to excuse the Diary's mention of the Poste House are trying to wriggle out of the fact that the writer of the Diary -- presumably a hoaxer in the 1980's or early 1990's -- made that mistake. However, having said that, some people that I admire, one of them Caroline Morris, one of the authors of Ripper Diary: The Inside Story, have argued strongly that some other tavern in the 'Pool could have been informally named "The Poste House." The same argument has been made by Paul Begg, executive editor of Ripperologist, with whom I have had numerous discussions on this very matter.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Chris, I forgot to mention this last week, but the Maybrick family gravestone has been damaged. Spotted it when I was in Anfield Cemetery taking photos of the cemetery's "noteables"


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    Thanks for this notification, Dave. I would like to use your photograph in the new (February) issue of Ripperologist if I may. I will credit you under your real name. Okay?

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Editor, Loch Raven Review
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