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Thread: Shops underneath Church street

  1. #1
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Default Shops underneath Church street

    Once caught the end of a

    radio prog with FrankCarsyile he was talkin about victorian shops below Church st, that are still there?? is this true? does anyone know?


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  2. #2
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Sounds like those smaller shops further up Church street - the ones just before

    you get to the Disney store. Can't think what they are off the top of my head - I think one of them is called 'Past Times' .. anyway, those buildings are

    old.

  3. #3
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    nah

    Lindy, underground, via a sealed up entrance, mystery?/

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    oh. no .. I havn't heard about that.

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    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Apparently via a door to the rear of the cop shop, since sealed , an underground

    marketplace, however i might have dreamed it

  6. #6
    Still alive snappel's Avatar
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    I've heard many rumours of things like that in various towns. I suppose it's possible, although the

    railway line runs underneath there too...

  7. #7
    theninesisters
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    There is an underground 'street' under the old Kwik Fit garage on Renshaw

    Street which I've been in (doesn't go far but shows some bricked up arches/windows. There is a massive tunnel system, however, in the basement of JJB

    sports. It's almost temping to get a day job there just to explore!!

  8. #8
    Still alive snappel's Avatar
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    Which JJB is that?

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    Senior Member ayjaykay's Avatar
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    There's only 1 now isn't there? In Williamson Square.

  10. #10
    MissInformed
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    oh my god! This all sounds exciting!!!

  11. #11
    PhilipG
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    I don't want to put a damper on this thread, but I don't think there are any buried streets in Liverpool.
    When JJB were in Lord Street they occupied part of what had been the Lord Street Arcade, but that was above ground, like the Wayfarer's Arcade in Southport.

  12. #12
    theninesisters
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    There are loads of buried streets in Liverpool - I've been in them!!

    The first one is under what is the Cellar of the Dispensary pub on Renshaw Street. The only access to it is via a drain in what used to be Kwik Fit's Garage next door. At one time, this corridor linked up most of Renshaw street looking at old plans!
    Last edited by theninesisters; 03-23-2007 at 06:59 PM.

  13. #13
    MissInformed
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    wow! again!
    you and snappel are our heroes!!!

    tunnel exploration is the best!!!

    do you have any more pics/info like this??

  14. #14
    theninesisters
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    LOL - Snappel is our above ground guide!! Me and heights don't mix that well as I found out when standing on top of the 'Birds Nest' at the top of the Municipal Buildings (Council Offices) hanging on to the iron railing for life!

    I know lots around the City Centre underground but you'll have to ask the questions so I can give answers hehe.

  15. #15
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona76 View Post
    LOL - Snappel is our above ground guide!! Me and heights don't mix that well as I found out when standing on top of the 'Birds Nest' at the top of the Municipal Buildings (Council Offices) hanging on to the iron railing for life!

    I know lots around the City Centre underground but you'll have to ask the questions so I can give answers hehe.

    How about a list?

  16. #16
    theninesisters
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    That's like asking Snappel which buildings he's been in to in Liverpool

    If you've got something that you want some history on, give me a shout. Don't know everything there is to know but I have been in some unusual places! Far easier than listing all the places I've been in to...why there could be cops on the forum LOL

  17. #17
    PhilipG
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    I'd like you to tell about the underground streets, which you say there are lots of.
    If I've never heard of them, how can I ask specific questions?

  18. #18
    theninesisters
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    It all depends on what area of the city centre you are looking at. Certainly there once was a large underground street running along Renshaw Street from the situation of the small street that I gained access to but there are other tunnels around the area too.

    The Hearse route in to St James Cemetery would have been an interesting route to take - now all bricked up though.

    Over by the Town Hall, there is an Ice House underground which can still be gained access to - with permission. At the back of the Town Hall you've got a tunnel running south east under the High Street and in the north west corner you've got another tunnel running under Exchange Street West.

    Other strange places include the shop in Bold Street which has a well shaft going down to water - can't think of the name of the cafe now!

    Far less known is a tunnel that is rumoured to run from St Georges hall to the statue at the bottom of London Road - this was mentioned by an old guide but nothing seems to have been looked in to.

    The most interesting system which I've yet to look in to is the Bookshop on Fazakerley Street which houses what appeares to be a bridewell in the basement - me thinks I need to pay a visit!!

  19. #19
    PhilipG
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    Thanks Jona76.

    Let's just stick to underground streets.
    Surely the one in Renshaw Street would have been documented?
    There is a book called "Underground Liverpool" by Jim Moore.
    It mentions most of the tunnels which you list, but there is nothing about underground streets.
    There was an arcade of shops running down the back of Bold Street before Central Station was built in the 1860s, but they weren't underground.
    The buildings on Renshaw Street near Oldham Street (the oldest ones) were built on open land (at a guess no earlier than the mid 19th century).
    Renshaw Street, like Bold Street, had been a ropewalk.

    BTW, the Hearse route on the Hope Street side of the Cemetery contains funeral vaults, not tunnels.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 11-25-2006 at 01:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Philip

    I also have the Jim Moore book Underground Liverpool, and I would count Mr. Moore as an authority. I would be less likely to credit Freddy O'Connor as an authority at least in his contention, on the other thread we have ongoing, that there were underground passages connecting the Vines to the river that were used for smuggling. I believe Mr. Moore deals with facts but to my mind Mr. O'Connor, at least in making that statement, is buying into legend and rumor rather than actual fact.

    And getting back to this idea that there are streets below the current Liverpool streets, there may be underground passages below the present-day streets, I don't deny that possibility, but are there actual shops, as the title of this thread states, "Shops underneath Church street" would indicate, that there were "Victorian" shops down there?

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
    Editor, Ripperologist
    Editor, Loch Raven Review
    http://christophertgeorge.blogspot.com/
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  21. #21
    theninesisters
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    Surely the one in Renshaw Street would have been documented?
    It all depends on who has found them and whether they expressed an interest in bringing these to light. There must have been many Kwik Fit bods that had been down there due to the recent rubbish that we found yet it took a chance phone call for me to find out about it.
    There are probably lots of places like this in Liverpool in which people have seen and haven't really thought that there are people like us that are interested in them.

  22. #22
    MissInformed
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIMON HARRISON View Post
    Once caught the end of a radio prog with FrankCarsyile he was talkin about victorian shops below Church st, that are still there?? is this true? does anyone know?

    Hi Chris
    Just looked back to the start of this thread, and Simon simply thinks there were shops, and he only thought this is what he heard...so to go on only something you thought you heard, we have got a pretty great discussion on here!!

    Thanks Jona, for all info! and for being a tunnel legend!!

  23. #23
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Think i need to confirm what i heard on BBC radio, Frank did say it was an underground street, streetlights, ect, at the top of Church st, still there apparently, shop windows however, now bricked up, but were retail units, below ground level. Sounds like the Renshaw st, site, if true, sorry guys, wish id heard more.
    Simon Harrison

  24. #24
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIMON HARRISON View Post
    Think i need to confirm what i heard on BBC radio, Frank did say it was an underground street, streetlights, ect, at the top of Church st, still there apparently, shop windows however, now bricked up, but were retail units, below ground level. Sounds like the Renshaw st, site, if true, sorry guys, wish id heard more.
    Very interesting, Simon.

    Church Street or Renshaw Street, there would have been a major reason for "burying" a street.
    And that would have made news at the time, and therefore there would be records of it.
    Liveerpool has many legends of tunnels, but not one of a buried street.
    On the other hand, there was part of Nevill Street in Southport which was filled in.
    That is well documentated.

  25. #25
    Goin' up up up The Teardrop Explodes's Avatar
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    I can't help remembering in all this tunnel/no tunnel talk that we now have thermal imaging which could, if only someone'd pay for the helicopter, clear all this and all the other legends of tunnels up once and for all....

    Not as much fun though.

  26. #26
    MissInformed
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    excellent idea.
    but, as you say....not as much fun!
    do you think we could get a lottery grant to do the thermal stuff?

  27. #27
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Last note on this guys, Frank C has a couple of dvds out Liverpool, unseen and Liverpool unoticed, im sure someone knows him or can reach him, to ask what the heck he was on about,feel a bit silly starting this thread but thank you everyone for your interest,Ref the dvds ive yet to get these titles, if anyone has them are they good???
    Simon Harrison

  28. #28
    MissInformed
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    oohhhh i would like to have a look at them too,...

  29. #29
    MissInformed
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    Frank C has a website

    http://www.frankcarlyle.com/
    i have just emailed with FAO Frank C...

    lets see if we can clear this up!
    Last edited by MissInformed; 11-30-2006 at 12:32 PM.

  30. #30
    Member SIMON HARRISON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissInformed View Post
    Frank C has a website

    http://www.frankcarlyle.com/
    i have just emailed with FAO Frank C...

    lets see if we can clear this up!
    Did you get an answer Carrie?
    Simon Harrison

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