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Thread: King Street Garston 1930s to 1970s

  1. #1
    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Smile King Street Garston 1930s to 1970s

    Hi -- what a great site
    (you can cut to the chase by scrolling to the bold bits...)

    I am trying to get a few of my parents memories from Liverpool of old, down on paper. At the moment I am working on Dads stories.

    He was born in 1936 in Garston, the youngest of 11 kids.

    He tells stories about:
    the poverty;
    being catholic in a street where one side was catholic and part of the other side was protestant;
    the strong sense of community;
    the street gambling, pubs, sing-songs;
    bomb-raid stories;
    the difference between those under the bridge and those not...etc

    These days he is greatful for a plummed bathroom, heating and a more varied diet than jam butties at home and bananas pinched from the docks when opportunity knocked.
    He thinks perhaps, however, his childhood made up for in (some kind of) culture and community, what it lacked in money and opportunity.

    After childhood came the teens of course, and the 'King Street Cowboy' label, knocking round with the boys, then conscription...

    After teens came slotting in to the life of the average scouser, getting married, kids, getting kicked out of Garston because their house was getting demolished, moving to speke, working at Dunlops for 10 years or more, an odd bevvy at the peggi...

    In the 70s with all the forecast instability of the docks and industry, my family got out and moved to Australia.

    At the moment I am writing a short story about a small event that happened in the 40s (I think). I will check with dad for a more specific date.

    The story goes that there was a huge mound of coal dumped near king street, the industrial/dock area.

    The way dad remembers it, the king street community pretty much decimated the mountain in a night!

    Dad recalls the community, kids and adults alike, doing relays to the coal pile in the dark, carrying coal back by hand or in prams, barrows and baskets.

    It was a big deal, as most could not afford enough coal to keep them warm all the time.


    ADVERTISING




    Dad recalls the event vividly through a childs eyes. His memory doesn't tell the whole story because I dont know who put the coal there, how the police dealt with it, what the adults of the community thought of the event...

    None of that matters, his recollection is a fab story which paints an important picture of growing up under the bridge back then.

    It would be great to hear from anyone who remembers the event, who has heard of it, or can track down any facts about it!

    Anyone here that old or got great/grand/parents from Garston?


    All help gratefully received, any other memories of that time? I would love to chat!

    THANKS in advance

    MM -

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    Hello there, what a fantastic post, thanks very much. My nan and grandad are sadly both no longer with us but were both Garstonians, my nan working in the Bobbin Works from the age of 12 I think. I will have a word with some people I know and get back to you.

    Welcome and thanks for your support!!!

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  3. #3
    scouserdave
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    A cracking read Merseymay. Thanks for sharing it

  4. #4
    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Thanks for replying! Looking forward to hearing of any leads.

    Will share the finished story here once its ready to go.

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    Senior Member john's Avatar
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    Great story, my folks where from Garston

    and have fond memories.
    My extended family all lived in a couple of streets in Garston until they were knocked down and my family and friends all moved

    out to pastures new.
    They went from two up two down, outside lav to a modern house with bathroom inside lav, I think that my parents could not believe

    their luck.

    Have you seen the Garston book?

    John
    " If you know your history, then you would know where you coming from".


    "I could have been a footballer - but I had a paper round"..Yosser Hughes

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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    First to Kev - I forgot to say - my Granny worked at the bobbin works too.

    It sent her deaf which was a blessing of sorts.
    With 11 kids (10 because one died as a child) and a grumpy husband and no money, you'd think it would

    be a stressful life. But she was always smiling and had barely a wrinkle on her face when she died in her 80s. They all reckon its because she was deaf so

    she never knew what was going on in their lives, so couldn't worry.
    Her kids would take her to the pub each arvo, sit her down and get her a bloody mary.

    She'd sit there nodding her head at the conversations and grinning away.
    Occasionally she'd pipe up and say 'Its good stuff this tomato juice'.



    Now to John
    hi, thanks for the reply

    Don't think I've seen the Garston Book. I think my mum has mentioned

    it. Or I could be thinking of her frequently saying 'Garston is mentioned in the Doomsday Book' LOL.

    We have a copy of 'over the top from under

    the bridge' (I think its called).
    Its the story of a fellow who lived off king street. It has a copy of a census (50s)in it which is brilliant to read

    with folks who once lived there. Every name they recognise sparks an avalanche of memories. I think its avail thru the Garston Historical

    Soc.

    Vulcan Street and Thomas Street were two Garston Streets where my relos lived that are now kaput - demolished in the 60s I think. Is that where

    your relos were? Outside loos, 2 up 2 down - miniature houses, pretty much slummys thrown up to house factory workers in the late 1800s I think.

    My

    mum was happy to get out like your relos, but dad was a Garstonian born and bread so it gutted him to leave.

    He knew almost every person

    in Garston from a few generations. His mental map of garston and where everyone lived is amazing. he can just about do his own retrospective census of the

    area!

    Let us know what book you were referring to?

    Cheers

    MM

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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Garston

    Hi Merseymay, Welcome to this great site, I too, recommend the book 'Garston' compiled by Margaret and Bernard Brett of

    the Garston and District Historical Society. You would probably get one from the society.
    I too, lived 'under the bridge' in Byron St, Mum also

    worked in the Bobbin Works in her early years (lots of Garston girls did!) in 1939 my family moved to the Tenements in Speke Road, so I lived both 'under'

    and 'over' the bridge.
    Garston was a great place to live in the ealier days, can't say what it's like now, but Kev will keep you informed I'm

    sure. Lets know your dads name, I may have known him! Regards,

  8. #8
    Too old to suffer sweetpatooti's Avatar
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    Hilarious Merseymay - what a great post - I still live in Garston like Kev and I will see what I can find out from some of the oldies

    in Church on Sunday - they love a ramble down memory lane - it's like therapy to them.

    (Don't tell'em I called them old!!)

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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Lol

    Thanks Norm for the book details.

    Family names avail by PM if anyone wants to ask

    relatives if they knew us.


    sweetpatooti I wont let on that you called them old folks old LOL. That would be great if you could ask them

    what they remember.


    The story I am writing just now about the disappearing coal mound wouldn't rate a mention next to the blitz and the beatles

    .
    It is important to get it down on paper as maybe there is no record of it yet. Its a picture of everyday life and survival in Garston.

    People outside Garston thought they were rogues, and their own religious backgrounds and morals made them think that themselves to some extent. But we know

    differently. They had a big heart and a sense of community hard to rival even in L'pool.

    Nothing romantic about pinching coal, but through his

    childish eyes, it was a magical night of happiness and hard work in the community. It just had to be done, logic dictated it.

    Freezing to death, no

    coal, no money, suddenly a magic mountain of coal appears just round the corner...were they supposed to ignore it?

    These were the people that under

    old overcoats, each night, slept. My dad slept in a bed with a handful of his siblings and a couple of old army coats to keep them all

    warm.


    Okies thanks to both of you

    MM


    Edited to put the this info in the relevent thread
    Last edited by merseymay; 10-13-2006 at 06:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Default King St Garston.

    Hi MM, Thanks for reply, afraid I don't recall the names! but many years have past since I left Garston. You should have a look at the site done by the "Woodcutters Club" in Garston, this club was founded by workers of the 'Bobbin Works' It may be worth your while to put a message on the club notice board. Regards.

  11. #11
    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Default Update

    Hi, thanks Norm

    Here is

    an update:

    some more details about the coal pile event for those still in Garston:

    The coal pile was put in the light industrial area above the

    docks at the end of Hughes street. It was behind sheets of corrogated iron, of which someone had remove a couple of pieces to expose the booty. He

    said the pile was as big as a house (Australian bungalow...pretty darn big) at least.

    Dads family lived in an old former club (now demolished) right

    next to the Vic between Sinclair st and Hughes street. Just up from the green grocers at the time.

    The pub on the corner of hughes st

    was then known as Nellie Mallans (spelling?) as she was the propriator at the time. It was officially called the Kings Vaults at the time Dad

    thinks. Now known as the King Street Vaults.
    Nellie Mallans pub was an ?? ind.coop and allsops brewery at the time.

    Dad said the memory

    of the coal pile event is surreal. He doesn't remember the King St community talking, just industriously gathering the coal in a relay, doing what they HAD

    to do.

    A steady stream of dark faceless figures moving back and forth between the coal and their homes. The was a sense of logic and grand

    opportunity about it, but mainly, just a sense of getting on with the task at hand.

    Prams and hand carts were employed to carry the coal where

    possible. When the bathtubs were chockas and there was nowhere left to stash the coal, they stopped.

    The next day the opportuity was gone. For

    some reason no more magic piles of coal appeared for the King street community.

    A hand cart was a home made barrow, using a banana crate

    and adding wheels and handles.

    Most people could afford two bags of coal a fortnight, if they were lucky. That amount of coal lasted 3 days. The

    rest of the time they scrounged around for wood or anything that would burn - or went without.

    Can you imagine what the coal pile meant for them?

    All their christmases come at once!

    It must have happened after the 2WW, in the mid-late 40s. The only chance of getting more information is to find

    someone who was a teenager or adult at the time it happened (so now in their late 70s, 80s, 90s), and perhaps finding a report in the Echo or a police

    report??

    MM
    Last edited by merseymay; 10-13-2006 at 03:20 PM.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Hello MM, very interesting and amusing posts. I get a mental picture of the kids getting the coal from the pile

    .... aahh ! Times must have been hard.

    Welcome to the forum. Hope you stay and continue to post such interesting tales.

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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Hi lindylou

    thanks for the warm welcome.

    Yea, I can see the kids too, slipping and struggling

    on the side of this great wall of rubble.

    Its harder to get inside the heads of the adults of the time. How did they feel? Was there any anxiety

    about the morality of the event? Or was it as Dad recalls, just something that had to happen. They had a strong sense of right and wrong. Their

    circumstances meant it didn't always mesh with the greater communities morals. In a battle between right and wrong, it might have seemed wrong to those

    under the bridge, to leave the coal sitting there, while their children went cold.

    I can imagine the elders in the community directing the show!



    'Up the stairs lad, inter the bath with that lot. Move it.'

    'yes dad.'

    'right, leg it back down the street quick-smart

    before the so and so's round the corner take the lot!'

    'yes dad'

    'but dont look desperate, we've got pride yer know.'

    'alright

    dad, I wont run, I'll 'fast walk', like this...'

    MM

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    You might be interested to see King

    Street these days: Click here
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

    All server & domain costs are covered by myself & kind donations of individuals.

    If you like the website, please donatevia PayPal!




    Thank you


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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Kev, thanks for the links and pics.

    Are there any links to the development plan?
    Whats it

    going to be?
    Whats happening to all the pubs on king street?
    Does anyone live there at the moment?

    Its great that things are going to be nice

    and shiny in the south

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    Quote Originally Posted by merseymay View Post
    Whats happening to all the pubs on king street?
    Does anyone live

    there at the moment?
    The Kings Vaults is still alive and kicking I think, somone does live there.

    The project will deliver 307,

    21st century homes, of which 120 will be for social rent and 187 for sale. It will replace the

    current 500+ properties, which currently occupy the site, demolishing the empty Victorian terraces (already happened) and 1970ís Radburn homes and provide a

    modern dynamic development that will offer excellent quality housing with a wide choice of tenure type for local residents.

    Work has

    also started on essential utility diversions and full-scale construction work is envisaged to complete some time in 2013
    .
    Last edited by Kev; 10-15-2006 at 08:31 AM.
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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Thanks Kev

    Thats progress.

    Its a

    monumental sense of loss for us. Not that the area is recognisable from the pictures. Thats not king street even from the 90s let alone from 50 years ago.

    Can imagine people will be glad to see the back of it, it looks atrocious. A warzone. Looks like it lost its scuffy soul years ago. Is Under the Bridge an

    historical term now? Or will it be a trendy term for the future inhabitants, without recognition of the history the place is steeped in?

    No point

    in taking the kids back for a look-see now.

    Thanks so much for showing us the pics and telling us about it.

    Do you know how springwood estate

    (the economic) is? Is it still standing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by merseymay View Post
    Thanks Kev

    Thats progress.

    Its a monumental sense of loss for us. Not that the area is recognisable from the

    pictures. Thats not king street even from the 90s let alone from 50 years ago. Can imagine people will be glad to see the back of it, it looks atrocious. A

    warzone. Looks like it lost its scuffy soul years ago. Is Under the Bridge an historical term now? Or will it be a trendy term for the future inhabitants,

    without recognition of the history the place is steeped in?

    No point in taking the kids back for a look-see now.

    Thanks so much for showing us the

    pics and telling us about it.

    Do you know how springwood estate (the economic) is? Is it still standing?
    On Heath Rd? Council?
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    yea it goes from heath road stamfordham dve, colwell rd, burman rd, inwood road etc long lane.

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    Yes its still there
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    Member merseymay's Avatar
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    Thanks for that.

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    Default King Street Garston 1930s to 1970s

    Hi,
    Just found this site a few hours ago. Seems like I recall the coal incident, it would be in 1947 or 1948. Do not know the reason why there was the coal shortage at the time. My grandmother lived in Vulcan Street and all the neighbours were getting desperate because their coal supply was getting low. In the middle of the night her next door neighbour almost scared her to death throwing coal into her outside coal-bin, we do know that he did get the coal from King Street. Lived most of my life in the tenements on Speke Road, right across from the Match-works. Moved from there to Highbank Drive right off Horrocks Ave when I was 20 years old. Worked at the Bobbin Works, we all used to sing at the top of our voices while we worked. Remember the "Cinder path" that I used to go to school (Banks Rd) and the short way to get to Window Lane which was a thriving place in those days. The "Baths" swimming pool was covered and great dances where held there every Saturday night. Remember all too well when Saundby Street was bombed, Banks Rd school was also bombed. Spending many hours in the air-raid shelters, listening to the bombs whistling by. The Village was the heart of Garston, remember sitting in Gandolfo's at the bottom of the village eating ice-cream. My Grandfather had an allottment down the shore, grew the best vegetables I have ever tasted. Remember all the memories of my childhood just like it was yesterday. Closest to my heart was the people of Garston, everybody helped everyone else. Even though I left over 50yrs ago I will always be a scouser.

    joyce

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    Thanks for the post, my nan worked in the bobbin works Mason/ Burgess, do they ring a bell?
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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Hello! to Ebby 1954! Welcome to this great site!! you just mentioned all the places where I also lived!!! Dont tell me you live in Richmond Virginia!!
    Last edited by Norm NZ; 01-18-2007 at 11:08 PM. Reason: 'spelling'!!

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    Default King Street Garston 1930s to 1970s

    Hi Norm NZ

    It has been 53 years since I left home (it will always be home to me.) Yes I do live in Richmond, Virginia. Maybe there is a chance that I know you.
    You lived in the "tennies" the same time I did, in those days everybody knew their neighbours. When I came home from school at lunchtime (12PM-1PM)
    used to run on errands for the neighbours, knew everybody who lived in our "square".
    Would love to know where you lived in the "tennies"
    Will Keep In Touch
    Joyce

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    Default King Street Garston 1930s to 1970s

    Kev,
    Worked in the Bobbin works for about three years, 1947 through 1949. The name Burgess sounds very familiar. What department did your nan work in?
    Have been reading all the posts, they bring back memories of long ago that I have always treasured.
    Thanks for directing me to the forums
    Joyce

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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebby1954 View Post
    Hi Norm NZ

    It has been 53 years since I left home (it will always be home to me.) Yes I do live in Richmond, Virginia. Maybe there is a chance that I know you.
    You lived in the "tennies" the same time I did, in those days everybody knew their neighbours. When I came home from school at lunchtime (12PM-1PM)
    used to run on errands for the neighbours, knew everybody who lived in our "square".
    Would love to know where you lived in the "tennies"
    Will Keep In Touch
    Joyce
    Hi Joyce, Have sent private message, I too lived in 'The First Square' No 14A 'Now you remember me!!! cheers, Norm.

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    Member Jackie's Avatar
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    Default King Street pubs

    just readin your posts merseymay Ive not long found this site (think its great)
    an jlust wanted to know if you remember The Queen Vic pub on king street , it was next to the Kings Vaults but i never drank in the kings, but av got loads of memories of the Vic. I used to drink there with my dad in the 80s, it was a great pub, we used to go to the Woodcutters as well and the matchworks, as my dad used to work there. I wonder if you remember him his name was Jack Winckle, he lived on king street right opposite the two pubs.
    His wife was Tina, she worked in the Woodcutters and always went there to play bingo. Sadly my dad was killed in a bad car crash in 1989 (november) on the back road running from the matchworks to king street.
    Last edited by Jackie; 04-16-2007 at 11:55 PM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Hello Jackie and welcome to the forum.
    MerseyMay hasn't posted for a while but I'm sure someone else will share memories of Garston with you.

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    Smile

    Thanks Lindylou, Im really enjoying browsing this site.
    I only live down the road from you in Walton, just wondering if you are
    having the same problems with gangs of yobs and huddies in your area as we
    are down here. Just been to a meeting with the new police inspector for walton, and local residents to see if we can do something about it.
    Am still feeling a little deflated as we feel we never really got any answers
    to the questions put forward, but at least we are getting a designated area
    set in place for the school summer holidays . Anyway getting back to Garston
    memories I would love to hear from anyone who used to drink in The Queen
    Victoria (when Bridie and Manny were running it) or the Woodcutters.

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