The Fifth Beatle

[Waterways]

Looking at the Beatles, they were a 5 man band at one time: Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Moore and Sutcliffe. They were doing tours and backing up the likes of Jonny Gentle who was big in those days in the UK, so they were moving in the top levels to be doing that. That was 1960.

Then they go to Hamburg and play in dives. That was a come down indeed.

BTW, Moore was at the Larry Parnes auditions. The Beatles unsuccessfully tried to persuade Tommy Moore to stay and go to Hamburg with them. That is when Pete Best came in.

[Spike]

Then they go to Hamburg and play in dives. That was a come down indeed.

.

I think that is where they learned their trade. long nights playing for hours.

[Waterways]

I think that is where they learned their trade. long nights playing for hours.

No doubt it honed it and they could experiment playing to people dancing who didn't know any difference, however backing Johnny Gentle in theatre tours I would say they were near enough there.

[baloffski]

Looks like I have opened a lively debate here. I was going to do Pete Best as my next instalment; but think I should steer clear of anything even remotely Beatles related as I am running with the big dogs here!

Thank you for all the kind words and standby for another piece when I can decide on a subject which will interest.

[Spike]

Hey your story was interesting.

Go for it

[Waterways]

Get it factual, triple check facts. There is so much garbage written about the Beatles.

For a few months after Tommy White, the Beatles had Norman Chapman as drummer. He was called up for National Service, one of the last as well, so another one who could have been a multi-millionaire. Another was the bass player, Chas Newby, who replaced Sutcliffe. He was at uni and wanted to complete his studies, despite the Beatles asking him to stay with them.

[lenka]

a year ago was smashing exhibition in victoria museum

http://www.liv.ac.uk/vgm/art/sutcliffe.htm

[ItsaZappathing]

I enjoyed reading that baloffski

Me too even though am not the Beatles biggest fan.
Good one Baloffski

[ItsaZappathing]

Get it factual, triple check facts. There is so much garbage written about the Beatles.

For a few months after Tommy White, the Beatles had Norman Chapman as drummer. He was called up for National Service, one of the last as well, so another one who could have been a multi-millionaire. Another was the bass player, Chas Newby, who replaced Sutcliffe. He was at uni and wanted to complete his studies, despite the Beatles asking him to stay with them.

More stuff I didn't know.
Ta WW

[pablo42]

More stuff I didn't know.
Ta WW

Thought there was lots you never knew...

[Waterways]

"Epstein then considered Johnny Hutchinson as the best replacement and contacted Hutchinson to offer him the job. Hutchinson turned him down ? he didn?t have a good opinion of the group."

From: http://www.triumphpc.com/mersey-beat...etebest3.shtml

I have read this story before, that Johnny Hutch was offered the job over Ringo and Ringo was second choice. Hutch played with the Beatles for 3 or 4 days between Pete Best's sacking and Ringo coming in. He was also a friend of Pete Best. Hutch was with the Big Three who were also managed by Epstein.

Hutch created the Big Three, who created the distinctive Mersey Sound. Well it was loud using custom-made large amps and speakers made by a band member, Barber, who also made some for the Beatles. The Beatles knew Hutch, having previously stood-in for them. He was very firm in his ways and sound he wanted, doing what he wanted. Not a good team player and I doubt he would have added much value to the Beatles. The Big Three disbanded in 1963 over disagreements with Epstein.

Casey Jones of The Big Three went to London forming a band and selected an unknown Eric Clapton to play with him.

[Ged]

Casey Jones - a steamin' and a rollin' - wasn't that Alan Hale Jnr

[Waterways]

Written by Bill Harry who founded the paper Merseybeat. So I would say pretty accurate, being around at the time and writing the paper. He would be right in the know also being personal friends of all the Beatles.

http://www.triumphpc.com/mersey-beat...etebest3.shtml

Harry once wrote to The Daily Mail, saying that "Liverpool is like New Orleans at the turn of the century, but with rock ?n? roll instead of jazz".

Bill Harry was trying to get the media focused on what was happening in the city. The scene was so big it had its own paper.

An excellent wiki on him here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Harry

[Ged]

Oh...so Wiki's ok now for Bill Harry and not George Martin, even though everything ut in both Wiki articles is sot on with references

Yes, Bill Harry is great on the subject and even rubbishes Cynthia Lennon's more recent book (of her two) where she is less than factual about well known events.

[Waterways]

Oh...so Wiki's ok now for Bill Harry and not George Martin,

Wiki is fine for an overview, that's all, what I said stands. Don't consider it much more than that.

In his Merseybeat web site Harry's knowledge in inside matters must be respected, as he knew anything and everything that was going on. He says Epstein offered the drummers job to Tommy Hutch after sacking Best. That info must be respected, although Mersey Beat, which he edited, gave a sanitised version of events at the time. He counters what he published in Mersey Beat, which came officially from Epstein. If anyone would know it would be Harry. I know of no one that has asked Hutch yet. I'm sure he knows.

His view on Liverpool as a port is way out, saying it had declined from the 1920-1950s, when the 1950s the port was at its height. Cunard and Canadian Pacific liners would crowd the Pier Head way into the 1960s, he thinks they disappeared about 10 years earlier.

References in wikis don't mean too much. A ref could be to a poor book. One book says Lennon drove to Skegness to see Ringo to offer him the job. Ringo was telephoned by Epstein and Lennon.

Harry counters much of the misinformation.