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Thread: Wavertree - Edge Hill Areas

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    Default Wavertree - Edge Hill Areas

    Wavertree - One of Liverpool's most historic areas, possibly dating back to the stone age. Flint arrow heads and burial urns have been found here. There used to be a lake, where the children's playground is now, they filled it in for a playground!!


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    I'll start with the Wavertree Round House and Lock up. Once used as an over night lock up for drunks, used in 1832 as a mortuary for cholera victims.







    Last edited by Kev; 09-24-2006 at 08:03 PM.
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    I got a picture of that too.

    Last edited by Max; 09-24-2006 at 08:21 PM.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Have you got The Monks Well?
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    Picton Clock - A memorial to Sarah Pooley, wife of Sir James Allanson Piction, Liverpool's greatest historian and architect. Built in 1884.

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    Have you got The Monks Well?
    Wheres that?
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Wheres that?
    I think its by the playground on the corner of a rd around there. Picton Clock area.
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    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    Just up the hill from the playground, if you drive up Mill Lane you might miss it, walk up and you will see it. This is not the original site, it was moved years ago when the area was built up. You can get the full history from the Wavertee society site, it is a very interesting site and well worth a look.

    http://www.wavertreesociety.org/
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    There's something in the grounds of St Mary's Walton church .. a monks well or a Saxon well - not sure, but very old! I did see it many years ago and it was covered by undergrowth then. Don't know what state it's in now.

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    Still alive snappel's Avatar
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    Nice photos... I never realised just how much there was in Wavertree like this, and I did live there for a couple of years!!

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    I've lived here all my life.
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    Kev my fellow Wavertreelite, wheres that well pic you had?

    I still couldn't find it when I was out last week.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Wavertree Public Houses (soz if I've posted 'em before):













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    I should of went to get updates around there but Instead I went to sleep!
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Exclamation

    The Monks' Well Wavertree - over 570 years old? The latin

    inscription reads - 'He who does not give what he has, the Devil smiles below.' Tunnels are believd to have ran from it to Childwall and

    Sandown.







    [IMG]http://static.flickr.com

    /91/270042521_10b5c8e3e0.jpg[/IMG]
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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Druids Cross Rd Wavertree or Allerton

    Taffy Quote:
    Wavertree is a delightful area and is really much more than the historic High Street area. Did you know the original Wavertree township extended as far as Druid's Cross Rd? I only wish the whole of the High St street could have an aesthetic make over to remove much of the 20th C over enthusiastic use of garish paint and signs. Here are a few photos I took a couple of years ago including one of the now lost, due to vandalism, pillar box on Sandown Lane End Quote

    Max quote When did Druid's Cross become part of Allerton? End Quote


    Druids Cross Rd was never in Allerton and isn't today. The township boundary between Wavertree and Woolton runs down the middle of Druid's Cross Road. The Allerton boundary runs down the middle of Green Lane , then skirts along Calderstones Rd. There's even an old Council sign saying "Allerton" at the junction of Menlove Ave and Crompton's lane. Yes this sign is in the right place but then its been there many years. Interestingly there is a boundary stone marker in Green Lane, Mossley Hill marking the separation of Wavertree from Allerton

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Isn't St Barnabas Mossley Hill?

    This Is a Wavertree Topic.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Isn't St Barnabas Mossley Hill?

    This Is a Wavertree Topic.
    Mossley Hill is in Wavertree. Here's the Official Index from the Liverpool Register office for St Barnabas, Wavetree marriages:

    Wavertree, St. Barnabas 1915 Liverpool 2076LP 1915-1957

    The church opened in 1914 and the indexed records go up to 1957

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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Mossley Hill is in Wavertree. Here's the Official Index from the Liverpool Register office for St Barnabas, Wavetree marriages:

    Wavertree, St. Barnabas 1915 Liverpool 2076LP 1915-1957

    The church opened in 1914 and the indexed records go up to 1957
    That doesn't make Mossley Hill a part of Wavertree! Each district has separate postcodes and a separate identity. I guess that's why one is called Mossley Hill and the other is called Wavertree!

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    Gnomie
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    Wavertree was the registration district then. i was born in Lee Park and my birth certificate says wavertree registry on it. its like Scotland road was under the West Derby district once, but only for registration.

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    That doesn't make Mossley Hill a part of Wavertree! Each district has separate postcodes and a separate identity. I guess that's why one is called Mossley Hill and the other is called Wavertree!
    Wavertree runs right up to SS Matthew and James Church, Mossley Hill. have a look at the thread on boundary markers on this site. Post codes have nothing to do with districts and are simply for the delivery convenience of the Post Office. Not all L8 is Toxteth for example and indeed Wavertree is much more than L15.

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    It's like Waterways saying Mossley Hill and parts of Wavertree used to be Toxteth.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default St Barnabas Mossley Hill Wavertree

    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    It's like Waterways saying Mossley Hill and parts of Wavertree used to be Toxteth.

    Dear Max,

    Mossley Hill is a legally undefined area spreading over parts of the townships of Garston, Wavertree, Toxteth Park and Allerton. The only legal attempt to define at least part of Mossley Hill was done by the Church of England in 1875 when it set out the parish boundaries for SS Matthew and James Church. These extended right down to Smithdown Rd and Wavertree Playground. The greater part of the SS Matthew and James Parish was therefore in Wavertree which came as far as the middle of Rose Lane. Its church school in Bridge Rd off Rose Lane was called SS Matthew and James School, Wavertree.

    St Barnabas, Mossley Hill, Parish was carved out of SS Matthew and James Parish in 1900. Roughly half St Barnabas Parish is in Wavertree and half in Toxteth Park. With the development of Allerton Rd, Queen's Drive and Menlove Avenue, the post office called also this area Mossley Hill rather than the previous Wavertree but these areas of course still remained within the township of Wavertree's boundaries which extended as far as Druid's Cross Rd. There even used to be a Wavertree Girls' reformatory school in Druid's Cross Rd.

    Up until about 15 years ago Dovedale Baptist Church, Mossley Hill was called Wavertree Baptist Church. Why because it was in Wavertree. This of course is just down the road from St Barnabas Church.

    So St Barnabas really is in Wavertree despite the current erroneous beliefs that township boundaries equate to post codes which they clearly do not.

    Incidentally, the Liverpool Echo is just as bad at this. They believe Earle Rd is in Wavertree. Why because everything that side of Smithdown Rd ought to be in Wavertree !! It reminds me of that famous Dr Who phrase " I deny this reality"

    Hope this clears things up for you.

    best wishes

    Taffy

  23. #23
    theninesisters
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Dear Max,

    Mossley Hill is a legally undefined area spreading over parts of the townships of Garston, Wavertree, Toxteth Park and Allerton. The only legal attempt to define at least part of Mossley Hill was done by the Church of England in 1875 when it set out the parish boundaries for SS Matthew and James Church. These extended right down to Smithdown Rd and Wavertree Playground. The greater part of the SS Matthew and James Parish was therefore in Wavertree which came as far as the middle of Rose Lane. Its church school in Bridge Rd off Rose Lane was called SS Matthew and James School, Wavertree.

    St Barnabas, Mossley Hill, Parish was carved out of SS Matthew and James Parish in 1900. Roughly half St Barnabas Parish is in Wavertree and half in Toxteth Park. With the development of Allerton Rd, Queen's Drive and Menlove Avenue, the post office called also this area Mossley Hill rather than the previous Wavertree but these areas of course still remained within the township of Wavertree's boundaries which extended as far as Druid's Cross Rd. There even used to be a Wavertree Girls' reformatory school in Druid's Cross Rd.

    Up until about 15 years ago Dovedale Baptist Church, Mossley Hill was called Wavertree Baptist Church. Why because it was in Wavertree. This of course is just down the road from St Barnabas Church.

    So St Barnabas really is in Wavertree despite the current erroneous beliefs that township boundaries equate to post codes which they clearly do not.

    Incidentally, the Liverpool Echo is just as bad at this. They believe Earle Rd is in Wavertree. Why because everything that side of Smithdown Rd ought to be in Wavertree !! It reminds me of that famous Dr Who phrase " I deny this reality"

    Hope this clears things up for you.

    best wishes

    Taffy
    Booo, why can't someone challenge me where the old parish of Childwall was and I'd give em every district up to and including Speke/Hale

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Dear Max,

    Mossley Hill is a legally undefined area spreading over parts of the townships of Garston, Wavertree, Toxteth Park and Allerton. The only legal attempt to define at least part of Mossley Hill was done by the Church of England in 1875 when it set out the parish boundaries for SS Matthew and James Church. These extended right down to Smithdown Rd and Wavertree Playground. The greater part of the SS Matthew and James Parish was therefore in Wavertree which came as far as the middle of Rose Lane. Its church school in Bridge Rd off Rose Lane was called SS Matthew and James School, Wavertree.

    St Barnabas, Mossley Hill, Parish was carved out of SS Matthew and James Parish in 1900. Roughly half St Barnabas Parish is in Wavertree and half in Toxteth Park. With the development of Allerton Rd, Queen's Drive and Menlove Avenue, the post office called also this area Mossley Hill rather than the previous Wavertree but these areas of course still remained within the township of Wavertree's boundaries which extended as far as Druid's Cross Rd. There even used to be a Wavertree Girls' reformatory school in Druid's Cross Rd.

    Up until about 15 years ago Dovedale Baptist Church, Mossley Hill was called Wavertree Baptist Church. Why because it was in Wavertree. This of course is just down the road from St Barnabas Church.

    So St Barnabas really is in Wavertree despite the current erroneous beliefs that township boundaries equate to post codes which they clearly do not.

    Incidentally, the Liverpool Echo is just as bad at this. They believe Earle Rd is in Wavertree. Why because everything that side of Smithdown Rd ought to be in Wavertree !! It reminds me of that famous Dr Who phrase " I deny this reality"

    Hope this clears things up for you.

    best wishes

    Taffy
    Hi Taffy

    What you say makes a lot of sense. In fact, before SS Matthew and James Church, Mossley Hill, I should say that there was no Mossley Hill. That is, Mossley Hill is not one of the ancient land names as are Allerton, Wavertree and Aigburth. Mossley Hill in effect grew out of the growth of Liverpool's suburbs independent of, although of necessity part of, those ancient areas.

    Chris
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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on your level of analysis. Parish boundaries do not map onto other boundaries or locals' sense of where an area starts/ends. Speaking as a resident of Aigburth who knows Mossley Hill well, I can assure you that no one who lives within the Mossley Hill area (seen as L18), regards themselves as being residents of of Wavertree (or Allerton or Aigburth for that matter), and I don't know anyone from Wavertree who regards Mossley Hill as a part of that district in 2007. Most people regard the Mossley Hill signs doted around L18 as denoting the area of Mossley Hill. If I can be bothered and have the time, I'll take them with my mobile and also snap the first one for Wavertree in that area at Smithdown Road.

    Because of the great and much treasured Toxteth net website, lots of people, especially ex-pats, are confused about the boundaries of Toxteth and assume that Toxteth Park somehow has a meaningful existence in the minds of contemporary Liverpudlians. It doesn't. I have seen people on this website talking about Lark Lane being in Toxteth. It isn't. Toxteth does not extend into L17 and never has. Toxteth and Toxteth Park cannot be used interchangeably in a meaningful way to talk about contemporary Liverpool. You might as well talk about Liverpool as being a part of Walton or West Derby if you are going to go down that path!

  26. #26
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Because of the great and much treasured Toxteth net website, lots of people, especially ex-pats, are confused about the boundaries of Toxteth and assume that Toxteth Park somehow has a meaningful existence in the minds of contemporary Liverpudlians. It doesn't. I have seen people on this website talking about Lark Lane being in Toxteth. It isn't. Toxteth does not extend into L17 and never has. Toxteth and Toxteth Park cannot be used interchangeably in a meaningful way to talk about contemporary Liverpool. You might as well talk about Liverpool as being a part of Walton or West Derby if you are going to go down that path!
    Most of L17 is in Toxteth.
    Toxteth Park covers from Parliament Street to Aigburth Vale/Otterspool.
    The Lower Lodge was on the site of Otterspool Station.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 02-06-2007 at 08:15 PM.

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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Most of L17 is in Toxteth.
    Toxteth Park covers from Parliament Street to Aigburth Vale/Otterspool.
    The Lower Lodge was on the site of Otterspool Station.
    What is your authority for that first statement? The first sign for Toxteth is at the bottom of Park Road next to the old railway station. ALL of L17 is south of this area. Most people who live in L17 say that they live in Aigburth. The area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale is undefined as a district. People within this area, if they don't say they live in Aigburth usually say that they live near Aigburth Road/Lark Lane area/Sefton Park/St Michaels/Fulwood Park - wherever they are nearest to. I have never heard anyone from L17 say that they live in Toxteth. Why would they? They clearly don't. That's why the LCC boundary sign for Toxteth is at the bottom of Park Road and not Aigburth Vale!

    Oooops - this is a thread about Wavertree, not anywhere else. Sorry
    Last edited by Jericho; 02-06-2007 at 08:30 PM.

  28. #28
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    What is your authority for that first statement? The first sign for Toxteth is at the bottom of Park Road next to the old railway station. ALL of L17 is south of this area. Most people who live in L17 say that they live in Aigburth. The area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale is undefined as a district. People within this area, if they don't say they live in Aigburth usually say that they live near Aigburth Road/Lark Lane area/Sefton Park/St Michaels/Fulwood Park - whichever they are nearest to. I have never heard anyone from L17say that they live in Toxteth. Why would they? They clearly don't. That's why the LCC boundary sign for Toxteth is at the bottom of Park Road and not Aigburth Vale!
    It's an historical fact!
    The Lower Lodge of Toxteth Park was on the site of Otterspool Station.
    Parliament Street (and Upper Parliament Street) is named after an Act of Parliament which stated the boundary between Liverpool and Toxteth Park.
    Therefore everything in between is in Toxteth.
    And Lark Lane is right in the centre.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Where are the LCC signs for Toxteth Park? When has it been used as an administrative entity within the city? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't have a problem recognising that Toxteth (a district of modern Liverpool) is not the same as Toxteth Park, a former royal hunting ground that was not originally part of the township of Liverpool but as the town expanded, the area that Toxteth Park occupied was incorporated into what became the city of Liverpool, and historically, not that long ago! Toxteth.net has a map of the entire area covered by Toxteth Park. I guess, according to you (but not LCC) all that area is part of Toxteth and everyone who lives in it (large tracts of L17 and L18) actually lives in Toxteth!

    Anyway, I'm conscious that this is a thread about Wavertree so this is my last post not connected with Wavertree on this thread.

    For the record, I'm a big fan of Wavertree. It's massively underrated. I have high hopes for the Lawrence Road area in the next ten years - especially if some of the shops can be given a new lease of life and more students stay on in the city and start up businesses, rather than going back to wherever they came from. Reopening Wavertree station won't do any harm either.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Where are the LCC signs for Toxteth Park? When has it been used as an administrative entity within the city? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't have a problem recognising that Toxteth (a district of modern Liverpool) is not the same as Toxteth Park, a former royal hunting ground that was not originally part of the township of Liverpool but as the town expanded, the area that Toxteth Park occupied was incorporated into what became the city of Liverpool, and historically, not that long ago! Toxteth.net has a map of the entire area covered by Toxteth Park. I guess, according to you (but not LCC) all that area is part of Toxteth and everyone who lives in it (large tracts of L17 and L18) actually lives in Toxteth!

    Anyway, I'm conscious that this is a thread about Wavertree so this is my last post not connected with Wavertree on this thread.

    For the record, I'm a big fan of Wavertree. It's massively underrated. I have high hopes for the Lawrence Road area in the next ten years - especially if some of the shops can be given a new lease of life and more students stay on in the city and start up businesses, rather than going back to wherever they came from. Reopening Wavertree station won't do any harm either.
    Ok Jericho, this is a thread about Wavertree, but I didn't insist that Lark Lane wasn't inside Toxteth (or Toxteth Park).
    I don't know the way LCC thinks (does anybody?), but I do know where Toxteth Park is.
    Other threads keep pointing out that these new LCC signs are in the wrong places.

    I noticed that you edited one of your posts, (after I'd replied to it), so I'd like to ask you to say just where the boundaries of Toxteth are, as you see them?
    Last edited by PhilipG; 02-06-2007 at 10:03 PM.

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