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Thread: Norris Green Croxteth Districts

  1. #1
    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Exclamation Norris Green Croxteth Districts

    Gun gangs' vile videos of terror

    Shock as the mini-gangsters use mobiles to film themselves and their victims in new twist to city crime mayhem

    TEENAGE gangs are filming themselves brandishing guns, setting dogs on victims and speeding stolen cars through city streets in a series of shocking promotional videos.

    The violent world of Liverpool’s young gangs has been captured on mobile phone videos and sent out to children as young as 11 as teen thugs bid to enhance their reputations and recruit potential members.

    The ECHO passed four pieces of footage to Merseyside police, which has launched an investigation into the videos.

    The clips show different gang members from Norris Green, Croxteth, and the Deysbrook and Larkhill areas and include:

    * A youth with gunshot wounds to his head

    * Masked youths showing off loaded shotguns, handguns and ammunition

    * Yobs riding motorbikes dangerously and at speed on residential roads

    * Youths wheelspinning cars on busy roads

    * Speeding cars being pursued by police vans and the police helicopter

    * Pit bull terriers being set on people

    * Innocent passers-by being filmed as they are attacked in the street

    * Dogs fighting

    All of the video clips, which are up to three minutes in length, have been edited and include backing tracks from popular rap songs.

    One of the clips shows graffiti tributes to 19-year-old gang leader Liam “Smigger” Smith, who was shot in the head outside Altcourse prison last month.

    His death was the first fatality in the long-running feud between the Strand Crew and the Croxteth Crew.

    Another shows close up footage believed to be of Everton footballer Andy Van der Meyde’s car being wheel spun around a car park.

    One Norris Green resident, who asked not to be named, said: “When Liam Smith died the police were round here in force, but a week later it had all died down.

    “This guy is being paraded around as a hero. It is a living nightmare around here.

    “I have seen what weapons can do and what death is like and I know what one bullet can do, it is not something to be laughed at.”

    Chief Supt Andy Ward said: “As well as this footage we have other similar videos and are investigating. There are groups of people in Liverpool who are making these films and glamorising what is effectively criminal behaviour, particularly with impressionable young people.

    “The people who are involved in this are very much a minority of the communities and what we don’t want is for people who don’t normally get involved in this sort of behaviour getting involved.

    “Police officers will be looking out for anti-social behaviour and people who are have this type of footage will have their phones seized.

    “We would also appeal to parents to check their kid’s mobile phones for these images. If they have got information they should be coming forward before it gets out of hand.”

    SEE the shocking footage and police reaction - click here

    Surely this is serious enough for the armed forces to step in?


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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    let them all kill each other off ! The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

    Every time there's a new 'gangsta' killing reported in the news we say, ''good !''


    - that's one less lowlife.

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    Lets be honest , the Police cannot do a thing, there was no evidence from the video that the Police are taking tuff action against these kids, this will get far more serious, these kids aren't one day going to realise that what they are doing is wrong.

    Its the issue of them being able to get away with it for so long that needs looking at.

    The loss of such young life is always a tragedy but who's to blame? Where are these kids parents?

    Give 'em and inch........

    Meanwhile the rest of us can worry about action like this: TRAIN users who put their feet on seats face prosecution and fines. more and facing fines of up to £20,000 for dumping bin bags in the street.
    Last edited by Kev; 09-14-2006 at 06:46 PM.
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    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    One thing is certain, there will be reprisals. The police don't want the memorial removed because it would cause a riot, what a load of bull. This is just giving in to these scum, maybe a confrontation with the police is what is needed. It is a sin that the public pay such high taxes to suport a police force that is so inefective. This needs to be stamped on now or more young lives will be tragically lost.
    Last edited by shytalk; 09-14-2006 at 09:32 PM.
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    'Kids of today' to quote the officier on the video.

    I've lived in Croxteth for 14 months now, and I can guarantee to him that its been the kids of the past year. I'm sure others that have lived here longer would be able to testify that its been going on longer...

    Just yesterday I was forced off the road by a joy-rider. I was in one of the shops shortly afterwards explaining to the staff what had happened. Their response - 'oh, we assumed it was a bike'.

    After the shooting outside Croxteth Sports Centre earlier this year, there was visible policing for about a month, and things started to look a bit brighter. They then took this policing away. Since then, life has gone back to normal

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    I'm guessing these are the 4 vids handed into the police - linked from a LFC Forum:

    http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=46632

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    THE families of rival youth gang members have been invited to attend secret crisis meetings with Liverpool's top police officers.

    Escalating rivalry between the warring Norris Green and Croxteth gangs has already resulted in murder, attacks, verbal threats and homes being shot at over recent months.

    On August 23, Liam Smith, a member of the Norris Green faction was shot in the head out-side Altcourse prison and died.

    In a bid to end the mayhem, Merseyside police wrote to the families of suspected gang members urging them to help.

    Earlier this week officers held two separate meetings with families at key locations in Croxteth and Norris Green.

    Today, police said they were pleased with the response.

    Inspector Louise Harrison said: "We had quite afew mums and dads turn up.

    "They realise there is no easy solution butthe biggest positive for me is that they want to try to solve this although they accept it will be difficult to try and getco-operation from the lads themselves.

    "Both sides are fearful. "I feel the shooting was abig turning point, because it made the parents realise that doing nothing was not an option.

    "Certainly it made the families in Croxteth realise 'one of us is going to get thatknock on the door next'.

    "Not as many people turned up for the Norris Green meeting, but Iexpected that because tensions are abit higher in Norris Green and there is going to be some mistrust.

    "But certainlyone of the mums was very positive and said she would go backto the community and saywe were all right and there is nothing shady about what weare trying to do.

    "They want to see an end to this.

    "They tell us there is nothing for the lads to do and there are no opportunities.

    "But they were quite honest about certain aspects of our policing and we realise we donot always get it right, but we are trying to listen and want them to tell us what is going to make it better.

    "But the most positive thing thathas come out of it for us is their willingness to put an end to it."

    Countdown to murder of Strand Crew gang member

    * FEBRUARY 11, 2006 - A 15-year-old boy is blasted in the thigh on Dwerryhouse Lane, Norris Green, by a bike-riding gunman.

    * FEBRUARY 22 - Residents in Coleshill Road, Norris Green, hear gunshots outside their homes.

    * MARCH 9 - Police storm 13 homes in Croxteth and Norris Green, seizing suspected gang members, drugs and airguns.

    * APRIL 5 - Houses in Norris Green are sprayed with bullets when gangsters fire a machine gun in another drive-by shooting. The attack sparks a shoot-out as teenagers return fire with their own weapon.

    * APRIL 24 - Drive-by gunmen shoot a 17-year-old member of the Norris Green gang from the window of a speeding 4x4. He is treated in hospital for leg wounds.

    * MAY 16 - Armed police arrest seven suspected gun-gang members, some as young as 15, during raids in Croxteth and Norris Green.

    * AUGUST 1 - Two 16-year-old boys are in hospital after being shot in the hands. Police believe they may have been messing around with a gun when the incident happened.

    * AUGUST 23 - Liam Smith, a member of the Strand Crew from Norris Green, is shot and killed outside Altcourse Prison in Fazakerley.

    Yobs send shocking film of attack to mobile phones

    TODAY the ECHO reveals more shock footage filmed by yobs on their mobile phones.

    Yesterday we reported the latest craze by out-of-control gangs in Liverpool, who have been filming footage of loaded firearms, dog attacks and speeding cars, then distributing them on mobile phones.

    In another two-minute video clip linked to a gang in the Deysbrook area of West Derby, an innocent passer-by is kicked to the floor.

    As the man is walking along a main residential street in broad daylight, a yob launches a flying kick to his head

    The yob's accomplice uses his mobile phone to film as the man lies stunned on the pavement.

    The victim, who is dressed in dark clothing and carrying a black bin liner, tries to stand up but the yob, wearing a white T-shirt and dark coloured shorts, kicks him again.

    It is unclear whether the victim is badly injured. A spokeswoman for Merseyside police, who were given the footage by the ECHO, said: "This assault may well have been reported, but if it wasn't reported at the time we would urge this person to come forward."

    Anyone with any information please contact the confidential Crimestoppers line on 0800 555 111.

    Court date for gang suspects

    SUSPECTED members of the Croxteth Crew are being called before the courts after a series of police raids.

    Seven people - including a 15-year-old boy - are due to appear at Liverpool crown court in November on firearms charges after police stormed homes in Croxteth and Norris Green earlier this year, seizing suspected gang members, drugs and airguns.

    Brothers Wesley Brown, 21 and Dean Brown, 19, from Sceptre Road; Anthony Fairfield, 18, from Totnes Road; Ryan Lloyd, 18, from Silverwell Road, and Dean Scahill, 18, all Croxteth; Joseph White, 20, from Whinhowe Road, Norris Green, and a 15-year-old boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, are all charged with conspiracy to possess a firearm with intent to endanger life, conspiracy to possess a firearm and ammunition without a certificate and conspiracy to commit GBH with intent.

    More than 100 officers from the anti-gang Matrix unit and local police raided 13 houses to collect evidence to smash the gangs plaguing the two estates in March.

    The officers targeted the homes of ten suspected members of the Croxteth Crew - the gang battling it out with the Norris Green-based Strand Crew.

    The operation followed the joint call by the ECHO and Merseyside police for locals to speak out against the two gangs which have terrorised their neighbourhoods.

    ECHO Essentials

    TO act against these teenage gun gangs, Merseyside police needs your help.

    Communities have been too frightened to speak out against these teenagers, but you don't need to give your name and address when you pass on vital information.

    There are several ways to let police know important information, without your details being recorded.

    * Anyone with any information about guns is asked to contact Merseyside police guncrime hotline on 0800 458 1211.

    * Anyone with any information about anti-social or criminal behaviour can contact the confidential Crimestoppers line on 0800 555 111.

    * Anyone with any information about gangs can also contact the ECHO's confidential Reclaim our Neighbourhoods line on 0151-330 4975 or send us an email in confidence to reclaim@liverpoolecho.co.uk You don't need to give your name or address and we will pass on what you know to police.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shytalk View Post
    One thing is certain, there will be reprisals. The police don't want the memorial removed because it would cause a riot, what a load of bull. This is just giving in to these scum, maybe a confrontation with the police is what is needed. It is a sin that the public pay such high taxes to suport a police force that is so inefective. This needs to be stamped on now or more young lives will be tragically lost.
    I don't agree with this fashion for laying flowers - for anyone. Even car crash scenes or sites where fatal accidents took place.
    I don't know how this trend started.
    The first time I ever saw flowers on a roadside was approx 10 or 12 years ago - maybe a bit longer. It was for that poor foreign student that was murdered on Scotland rd. Can't recall when it was.
    I remember seeing the flowers and thinking that it was unusual as it wasn't normally done.
    I never saw this happen years ago.
    Gradually the trend grew and flowers began to appear in other places.
    First it was for road death victims. Then the 'no-marks' cottoned on and started up these shrines for their Scally mates.

    Of course, I feel every sorrow for the families of accident fatalities or murder victims - ( we have experience of it in my family) - But I can't see the attraction or reasoning to have public laying of flowers and personal obituaries.
    A death in a family is a private thing and not for all and sundry to gawp over. I believe in dignity and privacy.

    How many hundreds of trees, fences, etc have wilted flowers hanging off them ! Or some shrines are added to on a regular basis until they become some kind of macabre eye-sore.

    - and where will it all end ? are people going to start laying flowers just about anywhere someone died ?? It's ridiculous.

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    Well put lindyloo, I agree with everything you said.
    I first saw this stupid practice when I moved to the U.S.A. I think this is where it started. A lot of Americans are really into making a big show of their grief. It seemed wrong to me as I agree that some things need to be kept private.
    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    The Echo isn't helping things by writing stories about them calling the scumbag who was killed "gang leader" he was only about 15 and stories like this are feeding their egos.They've all got matching t shirts on now with his face on the front and wait for it "True Nogzy Soldier" on the back how small time is that.They all think they're one of the Sopranos now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    The Echo isn't helping things by writing stories about them calling the scumbag who was killed "gang leader" he was only about 15 and stories like this are feeding their egos.They've all got matching t shirts on now with his face on the front and wait for it "True Nogzy Soldier" on the back how small time is that.They all think they're one of the Sopranos now.
    That's the media for u . The drama of it all .
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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    They actually believe that the Strand is their territory now and you're likely to get attacked if you go there in the evening and what do the police do? tell people to keep away from the area in the evening can you believe that,instead of going in there mob handed they give them the "respect" they crave and feed their over inflated egos,the police do nothing because it's a working class area and nobody cares about us but if I was a balloon thrower in Formby God forbid they'd be out in force like they were recently making sure this scandal was stopped.Can you see the difference in attitude the rich in Formby were outraged with balloons full of water being thrown and it was immediately stopped but in Crocky last week the police were going around the streets with a loudhaler telling people to remain in doors and get your kids in and if you hear a loud noise to keep clear of your windows and yet nothing is done.These idiots the other day were sitting outside a shop with bullet proof vests on the outside of their clothes and there's no police there wanting to know why,it'll only get worse but still now I know why I have to pay more council tax than the people of Formby it's clearly for police protection.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    It's just SO depressing.

    The feeling of helplessness is very depressing.

    What can the average person do to put a stop to all this.

    Nothing !

    'THEY' are winning. Decent people are terrorised into submission. 'THEY' are already ruling our streets.

    It's very fast approaching - the fact that grown people are being dominated by 15 years old toe rags.

    People are so dispirited - so dispirited that they have given up and havn't the heart to fight back.

    HOW can you fight back ! ??

    I for one am certainly dispirited, and so are my friends and neighbours.

    I lost all interest in striving for my community long ago.

    For many years I was involved with community matters, but not any longer.
    It is all wasted time and energy. We got nowhere. In fact things got ten times worse. The garbage continued to swamp us and we are now steeped in it.

    The best thing to do is just get out when you possibly can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    It's just SO depressing.

    The feeling of helplessness is very depressing.

    What can the average person do to put a stop to all this.

    Nothing !

    'THEY' are winning. Decent people are terrorised into submission. 'THEY' are already ruling our streets.

    It's very fast approaching - the fact that grown people are being dominated by 15 years old toe rags.

    People are so dispirited - so dispirited that they have given up and havn't the heart to fight back.

    HOW can you fight back ! ??

    I for one am certainly dispirited, and so are my friends and neighbours.

    I lost all interest in striving for my community long ago.

    For many years I was involved with community matters, but not any longer.
    It is all wasted time and energy. We got nowhere. In fact things got ten times worse. The garbage continued to swamp us and we are now steeped in it.

    The best thing to do is just get out when you possibly can.
    If they are not removed then the best thing to do is to move house for yours and your familiys own sake, self preservation.
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  15. #15
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    17 September 2006
    CRIMINAL, PM

    EXCLUSIVE In a Britain plagued by lawlessness, the Blairs & their neighbours are each paying £800 a year for a PRIVATE security guard to crack down on hoodies near their £3.6m mansions
    By Victoria Raymond & Justin Penrose Crime Correspondent

    TONY BLAIR and his neighbours have hired a private security guard to crack down on hoodies causing chaos in their posh London square.

    More than 50 wealthy homeowners in Connaught Square, - where the Prime Minister has a £3.6million Georgian home - each pay £800 a year for a "garden fund" which pays for upkeep, including the guard.

    The square has seen a surge in crime and anti-social behaviour and has twice the London average for burglaries and robberies.

    Frightened homeowners even use the guard to get from their car to their door. They ring the guard's mobile and he walks them home.

    Mum-of-four Kathy Hyer, who lives next door to the Blair's townhouse, said the square - opposite Regent's Park - is like a "party zone" on Friday and Saturday nights. She said her car has twice been vandalised in the few months she's lived there.

    She said: "It can get very busy at the weekend with a lot of cars and loud people. Music blares from cars and people dance on the street."

    Advertisement
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    And only last weekend a woman was mugged outside the Blairs' home at 3am. The guard chased her attacker and returned the sobbing victim's handbag and jacket after the robber dumped it.

    While police struggle to cope with spiralling levels of robberies and violent crime, Mr Blair has launched a bid to identify likely problem children while they are in the womb.

    Earlier this month he announced his plan for state intervention with nuisance families dubbed "Fasbos" - anti-social behaviour orders for foetuses.

    Just a month ago Met Commissioner Sir Ian Blair boasted that Londoners felt so safe they were "leaving their doors open".

    But residents at the square, where Mr Blair will eventually live when he quits No 10, decided to hire the Croydon-based Mercantile Security Services.

    The guard works until 4am on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights in a fluorescent yellow vest bearing the words "Security, Connaught Square".

    He reassures residents, moves on rowdy yobs and deals with any trouble. A homeowner's driver said: "The lady I work for feels scared to be out on her own so to be met is reassuring for her."

    When anti-social behaviour flares into violence the guard immediately calls police.

    The Blairs bought their five-bed home in 2004, before the local market slumped, and had difficulty finding someone to pay rent. Scottish film director Michael Caton-Jones is renting it until 2008. He pays £2,000 a week - a £6,000 shortfall on their £14,000-a-month mortgage.

    Club DJ Paul Oakenfold, who co-wrote the Big Brother theme tune, rents out his townhouse and Richard Balfour-Lynn, chairman of Retail Stores - owner of Liberty - lives there.

    Local shop owner Vadjiheh Safa said: "I don't think Tony Blair knows what he's letting himself in for when he moves in.

    "You get gangs of people fighting with sticks."

    Local councillor Colin Barrow said: "Young people come in their cars playing loud music, eating takeaways and throwing rubbish over the square."

    A woman, whose car has been repeatedly vandalised, said: "Since this scheme was introduced things have got better - everyone feels safer."


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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    If they are not removed then the best thing to do is to move house for yours and your familiys own sake, self preservation.
    that's exactly it FKoE. It IS self preservation.

    that's the point people have got to now. They just want to get away.

    Every day at the local shops or on the street, people are saying how they want to move.

    Unfortunately it is not financially possible for a lot of us.

    It's a disgrace and a crying shame that people are resorting to moving away form their communities where they were born and bred, or have lived for a very long time.

    There comes a point when you realise that you just have to give up and let it go.

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock View Post
    I'm guessing these are the 4 vids handed into the police - linked from a LFC Forum:

    http://forums.lfconline.com/showthread.php?t=46632
    Just watched these Jock, bloody 'ell there's not a lot you can say is there?! The motor bikes I can deal with, what's with the police on camera following them tear arsing down the street??!!

    All on YouTube too
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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    THE teenager jailed for murdering brave Liam Culshaw is a member of a gang glorifying yob behaviour on websites.

    Gary Craig, 19, part of a mob called the Cem-Eds, was sentenced to life for knifing the A-level student to death.

    Mr Culshaw, 18, was subjected to afrenzied stabbing attack after trying to stop youths terrorising his family home.

    Today, the ECHO can reveal Craig's mob are shamelessly boasting about their behaviour on a sick website.




    A shocking video, recently taken off the site, showed:

    * A phone box being blown up

    * A girl being karate-kicked to the face

    * Yobs flipping a car on its roof

    * Illegal mini moto bikes doing wheelies on busy public roads

    Craig, who must serve a minimum 10 years for Liam's murder, is pictured and named on the site.

    The website dishes out written abuse to Merseyside police and features pictures of guns and souped-up cars.

    Some of the photographed gang members can be seen carrying a knuckleduster and smoking cannabis.

    It even includes detailed step-by-step instructions of how to steal cars, adding: "When police come don't stop. Go towards a parkand jump out and run or go to bollards. But always try andblaze your stoly! (stolen car)."

    Police have been passed details of the website and promised to investigate.

    The mob call themselves the Cem-Eds as they congregate near Walton cemetery where they terrorise neighbours.

    Officials from Liverpool council have been informed about disorder in the area and evidence handed over to the anti-social behaviour team.

    A Section 30 dispersal order operates near the cemetery, so groups can be moved on.

    But locals said teen gangs regularly flouted the order.

    Everton fan Liam, of Cosgrove Road, Walton, was repeatedly knifed after he challenged youths doing "doughnuts" with a motorbike on a grass verge, splattering his home with mud.

    The gang's wanton destruction of open spaces with the bikes is an activity featured on the website.

    Ian Culshaw, Liam's older brother, said: "It's sickening to think this website is glorifying this behaviour."
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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Liam Smith is getting buried on Monday and the other day a friend was in the local florist when the phone went,when the woman got off the phone she was really angry because Merseyside Police had just ordered a big wreath for the funeral,now you know where the extra money you have to pay in council tax is going.

  20. #20
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    Gangs, every town and city in Britain has them. Many have their own websites and many are often armed. But each city has a common question, how do we stop them? Sky's Jason Farrell investigates the culture behind gangland Britain.

    Click to watch
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    Taking on the criminals

    THE man who drew up gang-busting laws today warned Norris Green yobs they had no hiding place.

    Senior government figure John Denham said: "Society will no longer tolerate such intimidation whether it is in Liverpool or anywhere in Britain.

    "There is no hiding place for them. It is important to grab the front-line criminals"

    Mr Denham was speaking to a fringe meeting of the Labour Party conference alongside Merseyside's Chief Constable.

    Bernard Hogan-Howe declined to discuss the problems in Norris Green.

    But yesterday, West Derby MP Bob Wareing likened the yobs' intimidation tactics to the Chicago mob under Al Capone.

    Knowsley North MP George Howarth said: "We have all had enough of thugs and bullies. "
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    Well, they're talking the talking. I'm still waiting for some action though.

    There was an interview with one of the big wigs from the police on 5 Live last night. He was claiming the streets were under police control and that it was just teenage yobs.

    When the interviewer mentioned that this was a mountain out of a mole hill, he sheepishly had to concede that these teenage yobs had access to guns. The interviewer then made the point that it wasn't exactly just anti-social behaviour being a problem.

    When pressed further on the shops having to close, he said that the majority closed because they wanted to. When pressed about those that remained open being threaten, he mentioned that no attacks had taken place on those shops. He couldn't guarantee that threats wouldn't be carried out.

    What did surprise was the amount of Police driving around Croxteth Monday night, hadn't realised about the funeral.

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    it's getting worse , turned the tv on last night and the news was just shootings..

    but what can we do about it? I am all for cctv all over the place, i know people are against it but if you have nothing to hide then whats the problem?

    I know its not the answer but it sure would help. lets face it we can't have a police man on every street corner.

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    but what can we do about it?
    Instead of putting grandmothers in jail for non payment of poll tax they should free up cell space for these street rats that are making peoples lives miserable.

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    2 true, but its getting them.

    I think we need a big re-think and change in the laws.

    Lets face it we all see them every day and they are getting away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevy View Post
    2 true, but its getting them.

    I think we need a big re-think and change in the laws.

    Lets face it we all see them every day and they are getting away with it.
    I saw two on motor bikes at 8.30 this very morning.
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    I went our local shops thursday night and they were selling beek outside the shop. not even trying to hide it .i was stunned.. ok may have been speed but it was white powder in a bag for £20..

    I know it goes on and ive seen it before, its just it was so open like "hey no ones gona stop us" and they were about 14/15. its mad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevy View Post
    2 true, but its getting them.

    I think we need a big re-think and change in the laws.

    Lets face it we all see them every day and they are getting away with it.
    We couldn't move for police in the 80's around Norris Green,you need to restrict there movements with stop and searches and put pressure on them,they can't deal drugs or carry guns then and it'll then be only a matter of time before they start taking bigger risks which would lead to them ultimately being caught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevy View Post
    I went our local shops thursday night and they were selling beek outside the shop. not even trying to hide it .i was stunned.. ok may have been speed but it was white powder in a bag for £20..

    I know it goes on and ive seen it before, its just it was so open like "hey no ones gona stop us" and they were about 14/15. its mad
    I couldn't care less if they want to take drugs but they seem to want to intimidate the community while they're at it and it's not right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    I couldn't care less if they want to take drugs but they seem to want to intimidate the community while they're at it and it's not right.

    yes but the problem is when they are on the drugs thats when they do intimidate the community.ok we all used to have a few beers when we were kids and get up to no good, but the kids today are on another level.

    its scarry. or am i just getting old?
    Last edited by Bevy; 09-30-2006 at 03:49 PM.

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