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  1. #1
    Junior Member macca's Avatar
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    Default Everton District

    Hello. I am a student, and for my project I am trying to find out more about Everton and other parts of north Liverpool.

    This is my question. I wanted to know why unemployment is high in Everton and other parts of north Liverpool; and why such a lot of people who live there are not active in the labour market, eg are on Invalidity Benefit.

    I have visited a few times to try to find out why, asked people questions, looked around, and I cannot work this out.

    There are lots of jobs in the centre of Liverpool. Lots of them. Construction, retail, security, cleaning, office jobs - temp, part time, permanent etc. More jobs than all the unemployed people in Everton. But only a few miles away, people who say there are no jobs.

    What is going on?

    One girl I spoke to, looked about 18, said she would not work "in town". I asked her why, she said she didn't like going into town. Is this typical? Are there people in Liverpool who do not travel to the centre of the city at all, in their lives?


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    Does anyone know what is wrong here? Is it because there are not enough jobs? Is it because people in some areas are too scared to go into the centre of the city to take up jobs?

    I would love to know what the real problem is, I am not able to find an answer to this.

    Thanks for any views or information you can provide.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Interesting research method - asking loaded questions on a web forum.

    May I ask where you are a student and what you are studying?

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    Junior Member macca's Avatar
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    I am doing my Masters @ Warwick. I don't know which are the loaded questions. The employment rates between the wards varies so much within Liverpool it's incredible, like there are two cities, north and south almost. The unemployment rates in Everton are very high, and the employment rate is very low. I don't understand why this is. It's not loaded, it's a really open question. Is it the place? Is it the people? Is it that employers are discriminating? Has something happened to make some bits of the city more insular than others? I am being told to use mixed methods for my project, so I have done statistical analysis of the unemployment / employment situation. I've also read studies and tried to find out what causes this, but none of them really say. So I have been, visited, spoken to strangers, and have been trying to get some people to be interviewed - like teachers in the schools, but it's wrong time of year.....!

    So does anyone know what the problem is? There is a problems - lots of people in that area are pissed off and poor and it feels miserable and I don't know what the solution is but before it's solved surely people have to find out why it's gone wrong? If that's loaded, sorry, but the facts speak for themselves, and I hope someone will say what they think the problems are here.

    If this isn't the right place then sorry - but I don't think it's a crime to ask questions

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    You're doing a Masters, and you're asking questions that an enlightened ten year could answer?
    THERE IS A PROBLEMS? Try completing GCSE English before attempting to unravel the social problems of a deprived area mate.
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    Junior Member macca's Avatar
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    Now now, let's have no knitpicking here. I have A level English grade A but I didn't bother spell checking and I was rushing. Seems that maybe people here are not very interested in this topic, but I think it's really interesting. I see this quite a lot on the net - people are often not keen to participate in research projects when they are asked, but a lot of people (doing research) don't say what they are doing, they just type out opinions, a few questions, and see where it goes - a more subtle method but I like to be upfront.

    I'm just scoping the issues here, it's qualitative background I am after, to try to get some clues about good questions to ask when I finally get some proper interviews set-up. The questions might be easy ones, but the answers are elusive - there is no single or simple answer I can find as to why people born in Everton will be poorer and live shorter lives than those born a few miles further south. I will put my project up here if people want, once its complete - so people can see what I come up with.
    Last edited by macca; 08-26-2006 at 06:07 PM.

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Good idea Macca, I certainly could'nt offer you any info, I don't have the experience in such matters but good luck with your project.
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    If you are serious, then I suggest you look into the collapse of dock work and industry in the north of the city (25,000 dockers down to 250 today). Have a look into the generation differences, how people today often have no 'working' family members to emulate-benefits being the norm. Also take a look unto the underworld of the area. A lot of younger people turn to drug crime as it is often more profitable than legitimate work. Find out about how large the local black market is, look into social housing policy, policing policy, lack of inward investment (supermarkets are large scale employers) etc.

    Get cracking on that and let us know what you come up with.

    http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/
    http://www.wikipedia.org/

    Google is useful as well.
    Search Liverpool docks, Tate & Lyle, Scotland Road.
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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunnyman View Post
    If you are serious, then I suggest you look into the collapse of dock work and industry in the north of the city (25,000 dockers down to 250 today). Have a look into the generation differences, how people today often have no 'working' family members to emulate-benefits being the norm. Also take a look unto the underworld of the area. A lot of younger people turn to drug crime as it is often more profitable than legitimate work. Find out about how large the local black market is, look into social housing policy, policing policy, lack of inward investment (supermarkets are large scale employers) etc.

    Get cracking on that and let us know what you come up with.

    http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/
    http://www.wikipedia.org/

    Google is useful as well.
    Search Liverpool docks, Tate & Lyle, Scotland Road.
    There u go, good luck and have fun.
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

    All server & domain costs are covered by myself & kind donations of individuals.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    'Why is unemployment high in Everton?' is a loaded question. It falls into the same kind of category as 'Do trade unions have too much power?'

    Your follow-up question as to why employment rates vary between the north and south of the city is more value neutral. The answer to which is that the north end of the city was a traditional white working class area and so was disproportionately affected by the collapse of the manufacturing sector in the eighties and has yet to recover.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunnyman View Post
    If you are serious, then I suggest you look into the collapse of dock work and industry in the north of the city (25,000 dockers down to 250 today). Have a look into the generation differences, how people today often have no 'working' family members to emulate-benefits being the norm. Also take a look unto the underworld of the area. A lot of younger people turn to drug crime as it is often more profitable than legitimate work. Find out about how large the local black market is, look into social housing policy, policing policy, lack of inward investment (supermarkets are large scale employers) etc.
    What Bunnyman has stated is correct. Everton is just up the road from where I live.

  11. #11
    Junior Member macca's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, that is really usfeul. Some of the problems look similar to those in former pit villages in County Durham that I have read about - but a difference with Liverpool is that being a big city with a growing economy, there are more jobs, so you would think it would be easier to deal with the problem. With all the construction that is going on, you would think "they" could make sure that at least a few of the jobs were reserved for apprentices or people who are long-term unemployed from certain areas being helped into work? I was reading about the new canal being built to join up the Docks, and that there is a public subsidy from the RDA and European funds for it - but maybe that kind of money should only be given to projects where local labour and trainees are used and a few unemployed people from places like Everton are given priority. I know it wouldn't be practical to hire workforces just out of people who don't have skills or experience, but they ought to be able to keep a few jobs for those from places like Everton.

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    You might want to consider the vast number of 'regeneration agencies' quango's and bodies set up to deliberate how best to squander our money. By the time they're all through talking, the budget deadline is fast approaching, and the money is thrown at any old crap in blind panic.
    Who was the greatest of them all?
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    Off topic but the problem with the Pits in County Durham is that the various Lead Mines and Coal Mines have gone. In most places (like Leadgate) all signs of it's industrial past have gone and only the samll workers cottages (like bungalows) remain. The same happened in South East Northumberland around Ashington.

    The fortunes of most of the County Durham towns and villages are changing though. Weardale (more a lead mining centre) is now a popular place to have a second home and many villages (such as Westgate or Irishopeburn) have been taken over by those who like to go up there on hollidays. This has cosmetically improved the small villages and towns but has also caused locals to re-locate to slightly more un-desirable locations like Bishop Aukland and Consett (home of Elddis Caravans) which are larger towns which also had a heavy coal mining industry.

    Back in Liverpool, Everton suffered a considerable population loss with the removal of all the terraces on Everton Ridge/St Georges Hill which will have meant that all the local services will have also gone. It seem all that much but the likes of Heyworth Street and Breck Road (the now cleared section) will have been lined with dozens of shops which will have employed a fair amount of the local population. Couple this with Tate and Lyle's closure as well as the extensive docks starting to shut up shop, you have a serious unemployment problem. Especially as quite a few industries moved out to Kirkby and possibly Speke.
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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    A lot of what bunnyman said is spot on. You mentioned construction a few times Macca. Training schemes and apprenticeships in the trades such as bricklaying, plastering, plumbing, electricians are not what they used to be in the 70s and early 80s when I was falling in and out of schemes seemingly at will until I found what I wanted to do. These days this governments quick fix policy is to take in Polish for one example, for instance, where that crane crashed yesterday, the site was full of Polish. BBC Radio Merseyside's Roger Phillips extra had a one hour programme with older trades members and Unions moaning about how few youngsters are coming through and how Eastern Europeans will settle for a lot less in wages so it is the greedy bosses making a killing whilst still charging top wack to develop.

    The South end, in particular Toxteth residents and especially black ones may have something to say about you thinking Everton is any more deprived than them. With the loss of the likes of Dock work, the B.A.T., Tillotsons, Athol st gas works, Tates and the list goes on - it's hardly surprising there are so many out of work in that area that depended on those jobs, some having whole families there.

    Lots of Kosovans and Latvians and the like were moved into the Everton high rise prior to them being sold to the developers who have done a great job with them, those people found their way to private landlords in the terraced streets around the flower streets. Are these part of your unemployed figures or being asylum seekers are they exempt.

    Of course there'll always be the workshy too who fall into the drugs scene and Kirkdale and Everton isn't without their 'heads'.

  15. #15
    Junior Member Fergie's Avatar
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    Default Everton District

    Hi Macca.
    Go back to the late 1960s when a number of building firms came to the fro of calling themselves develoment companys they put in a tender which was very low and they got the contract and then sub let to local firms which caused local firms to go bankrupty as for Tate & Lyles closing the reason being when the uk joined the eruo market and the had to use Beet Sugar and only 25 per cent of cane sugar and the biggest grows of beet sugar was France so get on your shanks pony in any City or Town in the UK and ask anyone over the age of 60 who voted to go in the eruo market you would be very luckly to find 2 out of 10 that vote to join it also check out the late Dennis
    Thacther regards his Job go to Straford on Avon and also look at the first four letters of this party that was in power at this time as this says it.
    Fergie

  16. #16
    TerryB
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    Hello all. Great site. Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'm trying to find some images of the old 4 Squares tenements that were around the Soho St area, they're for my dad who lived there, and also the Radcliffe Estate. I was only very young when we left to move to Huyton and never got to see what it looked like.

    Any help will be much appreciated.

    Cheers.

  17. #17
    Gerard
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryB View Post
    Hello all. Great site. Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'm trying to find some images of the old 4 Squares tenements that were around the Soho St area, they're for my dad who lived there, and also the Radcliffe Estate. I was only very young when we left to move to Huyton and never got to see what it looked like.

    Any help will be much appreciated.

    Cheers.

    Hello Terry,
    Have a look on here mate,ask yer Dad a few of the street names in the area and put the name in the Search box..IE..Wiliam Henry Street..good luck. .G.

    http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server...=SearchResults

  18. #18
    TerryB
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    Thanks Gerard, just what I was after. Some great pics of the area where my dad was brought up, Wakefield St, etc, or "wakie" as he calls it.

    Can't find any of the Radcliffe Estate, though, which was only built in the 1970's. I'll keep looking, thanks anyway.

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    any one of scotty rd area about

  20. #20
    George
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    If this isn't the right place then sorry - but I don't think it's a crime to ask questions
    Some jobs are just not worth getting out of bed for ie there are wages that coincide with the basic unemployment allowance,take bus fares,dinner money out of that without Tax ect,ect and you're left with a piitance of a wage.

    Your survey is not worth a blow on a ragmans trumpet ie the unemployment figure is not more than in any given area.
    A posh area will yield people who own buisness or in a high income salary.

    Kirby,Everton,Walton,Bootle,Anfield, ect,ect are all deprived areas were the lesser money is that doesn't mean to say the people won't work,they will if you give them a wage that they will be comfortably well off at the end of the week ie the wage is £30 to £40 better off than unemployment benefit.

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    Hello,



    Yes Bunnyman is right. you have to follow him and you will defnitely get something good so i think you have to go with it.


    thanks!!

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doddy View Post
    Hello,



    Yes Bunnyman is right. you have to follow him and you will defnitely get something good so i think you have to go with it.


    thanks!!

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    I think you are in the wrong thread

  23. #23
    George
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    Hello,



    Yes Bunnyman is right. you have to follow him and you will defnitely get something good so i think you have to go with it.


    thanks!!
    Your email bounced.

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    Anybody know the Mcrobie family

  25. #25
    George
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    there is no single or simple answer I can find as to why people born in Everton will be poorer and live shorter lives than those born a few miles further south.
    Well thats a load of tosh for a start,now you're saying we live shorter lives than the rich folk.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Some views of the Water Tower.
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    1. Everton rd. 2.Collegiate building. 3. rear of Collegiate building, College st south. 4. Lytton st corner. 5. View down Shaw st.
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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Great pic's Lindy!

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    Great to see pictures of the old school. I've got mixed memories of my time there, but it was a good school generally. Ted Ray, Artur Askey and Leonard Rossiter were old boys of the Collegiate and my mam and grandparents were so proud when I was accepted.
    Thanks Lindylou

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    Smashing photos Lindy. You've been very busy...

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