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Thread: City Centre Living

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Default City Centre Living

    A DISPUTE has broken out about the reliability of figures that suggest city centre apartment sales have sunk to very low levels.

    Figures produced by the Land Registry show the overall level of sales of new flats in Liverpool post codes L1 and L2 in the first three months of 2006 totalled just 34.

    The Land Registry figures seem to give credence to long standing concerns that the city centre apartment market is over supplied.

    There are also reports that a high proportion of sales that have been completed were to investors rather than owner occupiers, suggesting that many flats lie empty.

    However the accuracy of the Land Registry figures is disputed by at least one local agent.

    Phil Lawton a director of city centre residential property sales agency Sutton Kersh claimed that his Tithebarn Street branch alone had sold more flats in the same period.

    Mr Lawton made his comments during a podcast interview with business editor Bill Gleeson.

    Click here to listen to the full podcast on the Daily Post's dedicated business website at www. thebusinessweek.co.uk

    Commenting on the Land Registry's figures, Mr Lawton said: "I find that staggering and very difficult to believe. I sold more than double that number from this office alone in the first quarter of this year, so I can't understand where they get their figures from.

    "Potentially there could be a problem in the future, but the oversupply situation we have at the moment is no more than a blip in the market.

    "The population of the city centre is growing steadily. That's not the problem. The problem is when a large development drops in to the market place it takes several months for that to become fully occupied and at present there are two or three developments within a quarter. It is the supply that peaks."

    Evidence that the market is slow can be seen at Albany, the flats development on Old Hall Street in Liverpool city centre. The development consists of 123 flats, of which 70 have been sold. Only ten of the flats have been sold to occupiers. The rest have been bought by investors, according to a spokesman for the company. Developer Albany Assets is currently offering to pay two years mortgage interest for buyers.

    An Albany spokesman added: "I do not believe there is a problem with over supply. Its simply that city centre living in Liverpool is still at a fledgling stage.

    "At the moment some people don't want to live in the city centre because there are no friends or community around them.

    "But that's beginning to change now as it did in Manchester and city centre living is starting to snowball."

    billgleeson@dailypost.co.uk



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    Senior Member julia's Avatar
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    I'd live in city centre, but it's just too darn expensive. If they lowered their prices a little, maybe they'd sell and rent more.

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    Junior Member Tomo-CIL's Avatar
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    I use to live in Shandon Court on London Road (The big blue building on the corner of Norton St), there are good and bad about living in town.

    Pro's:-
    Walking distance from Lime St, clubs and bars which is great
    Social life is boss

    Con's:-
    Too noisy, very little for the size of the apartment
    Freinds knock round at 2AM 4 nights a week
    No community as such
    Food costs a bomb as it's impossible for a big supermarket run

    I don't think I'd move back to town, unless I won the lottery, of which I'd likely buy a penthouse to stay in after a mad friday night!

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Who gives a sh!t. What Liverpool needs is affordable family homes.

  5. #5
    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie
    Who gives a sh!t. What Liverpool needs is affordable family homes.

    Exactly!

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    Junior Member Tomo-CIL's Avatar
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    Liverpool City Council needs to be putting "all this culture money" into surrounding areas, it seems they've wasted a few hundred million on ridicoulous plans for a 4th Grace and all that malarky, what use is that to anyone???

    If it was up to me, the regeneration of Toxteth, Kensington and suchlike would be a sounder invesment

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Its called 'trickle down economics'. We have to wait for the crumbs from the table.

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    The way I look at it, Liverpool has lots of some things, and not enough of other things.

    It's got lots and lots of houses, most of them although obviously not all are probably fine. Many of them are low-priced and most are probably what get calls "affordable" these days.

    But it's got far far too few jobs, and in particular it's got too few businesses and small businesses.

    Lots of houses. Not enough jobs.

    The city is poor because it doesn't have enough jobs and business.

    But how does the city get more jobs and businesses?

    The days of the big relocations are probably long-gone, and now it's all "grow it yourself". In other words, Liverpool needs to have more people living in it who will succeed not just in being self-employed, but in creating jobs for others. And, like London and other successful cities, it needs to attract people to live in it who will do this. Cities rely on people moving to them who have ideas and ambition, and Liverpool needs to be attracting those people, who might currently visit now because of the airport, but will need a lot more incentive to say "Hey, I want to live here".

    And how can the city become attractive, to keep people living there, and bring in new people who will create wealth? There must be a lot of ways, but it's vital to make the city centre a nice place to live, exciting, and genuinely attractive. In my opinion this is not the time to make a priority of improving housing generally - you can improve Everton or Netherton or any area you like, improve the houses, but if people are still unemployed, under-employed, basically poor, you have lost. It's time to make the city centre and surrounding areas attractive to newcomers, foreigners, non-scousers, posh people, fakers, posers, pseuds, intellectuals, scientists, fraudsters, writers, designers, but most of all people who have a bit of ambition, get-up-and-go and can create wealth and business and JOBS!

    I think it's too dismissive to call regeneration "trickle down". If the city doesn't invest in its centre, and in new attractive residential districts for people who can pay a bit, then it's not going to get the new jobs that are essential. That has to be the priority, it is the only thing Liverpool can now do, if it is to have any chance in the future.

    Jobs are more important than houses. That is what Militant could never understand. What point is there in their bungalows if the people in them cannot afford to maintain them or have a decent life? Jobs are more important than anything else. Without jobs, nothing else can be afforded or sustained in the long-term.
    Last edited by Liverpolitan; 07-03-2006 at 08:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    What new jobs? Working in the Metquarter or some call centre for minimum wage?

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    So what you suggest is....get rid of the unemployed , the poor who have lived here for generations and bring in the business and the noveau-middle classes...

    ?

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    Yes we need jobs - full-time, permanent, well-paid jobs!

  12. #12
    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie
    Yes we need jobs - full-time, permanent, well-paid jobs!
    Oh I agree ... I posted in reply to Liverpolitans ethnic cleansing post

  13. #13
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    What we should do, is sell off the housing stock to the wealthy 'second homers', they can be the 'weekend Scousers'.


    Jobs a good'un

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Yes, but let's go back.

    Liverpool is a mercantile city that was built on trade and immigration. It has stagnated and declined. The solution is not to invest what is left in a quick fix of improved housing for a few - the solution is to make it a place that people will immigrate to again, and that will create a more mercantile character. Anyone nostalgic for old Liverpool is nostalgic for a business city in which there was a huge mercantile class who generated tens of thousands of jobs - in the old industries, not the new ones.

    The days of the big relocations are over. Where are the jobs going to come from? Living in an improved house with a subsidised rent is not the same as having an income, a career, a decent standard of living, having a bit of freedom over what to do in life.

    Liverpool needs new businesses. Not just retail (yes the pay is ****), but a whole range of new businesses. Cities like Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh and London do so well because they have a diversified business base, they are not reliant on any single industry and attract lots of small businesses to set-up there.

    No class owns a city, and the idea that business people don't belong is monstrous and has nothing to do with the great history or traditions of Liverpool.

    It's my opinion: bring back the people who can work hard, take risks, invest and build a business. They may now work in software or computing or design or music or whatever, rather than shipping trades, but they exist, and many of them are mobile. Make the city a magnet for enterprising people.

    There's tons of land and houses - the city was built for about double its current population. Bring in the Poles, the Latvians, the Lithuanians, and people from every country on the earth. Liverpudlians alone cannot rebuild the city, no city can regenerate without an infusion of fresh blood and energy.
    Last edited by Liverpolitan; 07-03-2006 at 08:02 PM.

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FKoE
    Oh I agree ... I posted in reply to Liverpolitans ethnic cleansing post
    Erm, I am giving some ideas about how to create jobs and eliminate poverty. I don't appreciate personal abuse or being misrepresented like that.

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    We should strive to breakdown barriers to employment for these poorer poeple in our community.

    We go to Gym Tots in Park Rd Sports Centre 2wice a week. The place is chocker full of mums and dads with young kids, cool. Great the city is buzzing, however, me and my wife are usually the only scousers in there.

    Wre are the scousers/ liverpudlians? hmm....
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    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpolitan
    Erm, I am giving some ideas about how to create jobs and eliminate poverty. I don't appreciate personal abuse or being misrepresented like that.

    Give over mate, I'm geeing you up..

    Anyway, your post above.. Liverpool was built on exploitation of the poor..........

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FKoE
    Give over mate, I'm geeing you up..

    Anyway, your post above.. Liverpool was built on exploitation of the poor..........
    And.................where will the jobs come from? If you have a better idea, happy to hear it

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    Oi, keep it friendly peeps, Forum rule numero uno.
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

    All server & domain costs are covered by myself & kind donations of individuals.

    If you like the website, please donatevia PayPal!




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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpolitan
    Make the city a magnet for enterprising people.
    You mean for like those enterprising people in Quiggins who started up businesses like 3 Beat Records etc.

  21. #21
    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev
    We should strive to breakdown barriers to employment for these poorer poeple in our community.

    We go to Gym Tots in Park Rd Sports Centre 2wice a week. The place is chocker full of mums and dads with young kids, cool. Great the city is buzzing, however, me and my wife are usually the only scousers in there.

    Wre are the scousers/ liverpudlians? hmm....
    That is great news Kev, as it can only mean people are wanting to move back to the city. No-one owns it. Now all we need are more of them, and more of them who want to set up businesses and create jobs.

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    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpolitan
    And.................where will the jobs come from? If you have a better idea, happy to hear it
    Let me see, we got rid of every industry the city had, we initiated a diaspora of its citizens, we avoided government investment....... and now to save us all, we get the southern middle classes to come up here to buy cheap apartments, and for those citizens that have lived through the rot, we offer them jobs in shops.......... ?

    Smashing idea.

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FKoE
    Let me see, we got rid of every industry the city had, we initiated a diaspora of its citizens, we avoided government investment....... and now to save us all, we get the southern middle classes to come up here to buy cheap apartments, and for those citizens that have lived through the rot, we offer them jobs in shops.......... ?

    Smashing idea.
    It might be smashing, but it's not my idea, and it's not answering the big question anyway. Where will the jobs come from? You might not know, and I might not know, but I've got an idea they will come from new people who are enterprising, and who are attracted to a vibrant, attractive city that is making the most of its assets. But I could be wrong.......

    So, where do you think the jobs will come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpolitan
    That is great news Kev, as it can only mean people are wanting to move back to the city. No-one owns it. Now all we need are more of them, and more of them who want to set up businesses and create jobs.
    It is and it isnt. Great news as you've mentioned about people wanting to move back but many ex liverpool residents who left on mass over the years to seek employment cannot move back.

    I find it bizzare that in the middle of Park Rd and remember its Park Rd, not Allerton/ Woolton, there's hardly a 'scouser in the house'. On reception maybe.
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    FKoE
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    There won't be any jobs.until we invest in education and opportunties...... These low paid shop jobs, how long before they are taken by the Poles do you think ?

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    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie
    You mean for like those enterprising people in Quiggins who started up businesses like 3 Beat Records etc.
    Yes! The city needs 100 more of them, no a thousand times more of that kind of creativity and energy. Not just in retail and music, but in all sectors and industry. While the city council is still in the old-mindset of not treasuring wealth creators, hopefully that can change?

  27. #27
    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpolitan
    Yes! The city needs 100 more of them, no a thousand times more of that kind of creativity and energy. Not just in retail and music, but in all sectors and industry. While the city council is still in the old-mindset of not treasuring wealth creators, hopefully that can change?

    Quiggens was'nt set up to create wealth, was it ?

  28. #28
    Junior Member Liverpolitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FKoE
    There won't be any jobs.until we invest in education and opportunties...... These low paid shop jobs, how long before they are taken by the Poles do you think ?
    But there is huge investment in education now, and not just school age, but European money has funded countless vocational education and training courses in the city. A lot of the brightest go and don't come back, and you only have to go into any office in the south of England (in fact anywhere really) and you will meet university educated Liverpool people. There is always a little gang of scousers. Other cities manage to hold onto more of their brightest and best, but in Liverpool - while many remain - very many cannot. And with them, go the jobs and opportunities those people sometimes go on to create.

    The problem is not supply, as you suggest, but demand - not enough real businesses with good jobs to offer. I agree it's important to keep investing more in education and training, but that isn't enough - it's also important to attract the real businesses and the real jobs.

    And how will the city do that? At the moment, a lot of them don't come to Liverpool, and a lot of the people who create businesses wouldn't consider actually living in Liverpool. So I'm genuinely interested in where you think the quality new jobs will come from. Liverpool needs tens of thousands of good jobs, it's an incredible problem. That's why I get startled when people talk as though improving housing is more important.
    Last edited by Liverpolitan; 07-03-2006 at 08:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FKoE
    Quiggens was'nt set up to create wealth, was it ?
    Neither was Microsoft or Apple probably. Creators are often not primarily motivated by money, they just have brilliant ideas and ambition and want to do things. But Quiggens has created wealth, and jobs, and businesses.

  30. #30
    FKoE
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    You can't compare Quiggens an outlet for unemployed Merseyside artisans, to Apple or Microsoft ...

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