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Thread: Mersey Barrage

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Default Mersey Barrage

    A study was to start this Spring. Is it complete?


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    http://www.physorg.com/news8392.html

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    Per Ardua Ad Astra bazzacat's Avatar
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    "...known for its leaping Salmon.."????

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    Ah-Ying
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzacat
    "...known for its leaping Salmon.."????
    I have actualy watched salmon leaping on the Mersey and, furthermore, from a vantage point in Liverpool. Of course the Mersey and Liverpool were in Nova Scotia, Canada.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ah-Ying
    I have actualy watched salmon leaping on the Mersey and, furthermore, from a vantage point in Liverpool. Of course the Mersey and Liverpool were in Nova Scotia, Canada.
    Salmon has been seen jumping the locks at the Manchester Ship canal.

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    Ah-Ying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways
    Salmon has been seen jumping the locks at the Manchester Ship canal.
    That is after visiting Manchester/Salford docks, I presume.

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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways
    A study was to start this Spring. Is it complete?

    http://www.physorg.com/news8392.html

    Power from the waves?

    USING the Mersey estuary to generate electricity would spark massive investment and regeneration in Merseyside, experts claimed last night.

    John Lennon Airport owners Peel Holdings have appointed consultants to carry out an in-depth study to look at how best to harness power from the Mersey in what would be the UK's largest wave and tidal power project.

    Any of the options, which include an underwater fence that would stretch across the Mersey and hold tidal turbines in place, would become one of the biggest engineering projects in the UK, creating thousands of jobs in the region if they were chosen.

    But a controversial barrage is likely to be ruled out because of the impact it would have on the environment, despite its potential to generate more power than any other scheme.

    Today the team of consultants from Buro Happold who are carrying out the study will give a presentation at the Merseyside Maritime Museum to explain the renewable energy technologies they will be assessing.


    Peter Guthrie, professor of sustainable engineering at Cambridge, who is leading the research, said: "There are enormous regeneration benefits with these schemes. It would bring a lot of investment and jobs, and would make a significant difference to the area.


    "We start in the early stages with a number of fixed points, such as if we want power generated then we must have a power generator built into a system. If we want road linkage, then that must be built into it and so on.


    "Some schemes have a financial cost, some have an environmental cost and we have to work out what needs there are, what the benefits and costs are and if they fit within a pre-determined legislative criteria.


    The River Mersey is potentially one of the best sites for tidal stream energy anywhere in the world. One of its main attractions is that the tide is predictable

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    Member Scousemouse's Avatar
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    Although plans were announced in 1990 to build a 1,800-m/5,907-ft barrage across the Mersey estuary to generate electricity from tides, these were abandoned in 1992 for financial reasons.
    Arrr, there aint nowt that's new!
    Ermine tastes much the same as sackcloth when there's nothing left to eat.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scousemouse
    Arrr, there aint nowt that's new!
    What is nowt? A study was/has been going on. It was well reported last Nov. It would maintain the water levels in the estuary and bea great bonus for leusire craft.

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    Member Tony Sebo's Avatar
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    The dcision in 92 was typical local timidity and fear of being made to look stupid backing investment in a report which 'evryone knew' would reveal that a barrage would silt up in a fortnight... completely bogus of course, but such is the power of received wisdom and notions.

    The mersey is not a massively aluvial river, what we see sloshing round with the changing tides is largely the same stuff sloshing in from the bay and then getting washed out again.

    If we had a barrage we would stop this movement, making it safer for shipping, more cost effective to dock here (or on the massive 'deep water quays that would be crreated?}

    I posted on the SSC site last night that we should consider building a huge arc that would contain the major part of the bay itself... 15 miles long, creating a massive lagoon that would generate much more than a strip across the estuary's mouth... not to sure of the science of that, but, worth considering?

    It is also vital that profits should be retained in the metropolitan economy, rther than giving this excess to London institutions, with Liverpool only gaining some emotional assurance from knowing some of our over priced energy where produced 'locally' and sustainably. Liverpool based and owned 'Bay Area (or Mesey) barrage generating company would be the natural path to pursue if we were looking at 'sustainability' in a really holistic manner... as economic sustainability is the most important elament of all!
    Last edited by Tony Sebo; 07-01-2006 at 08:36 AM.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Sebo
    I posted on the SSC site last night that we should consider building a huge arc that would contain the major part of the bay itself... 15 miles long, creating a massive lagoon that would generate much more than a strip across the estuary's mouth... not to sure of the science of that, but, worth considering?
    The reason the Mersey is earmarked is that the barrage would be short and cheaper to build. If a 15 mile barrage was built around the bay, it would need to generate a hell of a lot of electricity to be worthwhile - maybe wind turbines on the wall itself to supplement the turbines.

    Also as a crossing, a 15 mile drive through high winds is not attractive at all, while the Bootle New Brighton link is quite short and would open up the end of the Wirral. The Mersey was earmarked because the barrage would be short and cheaper to build. If a 15 mile barrage was built around the bay, it would need to generate a hell of a lot of electricity to be worthwhile - maybe wind turbines on the wall itself to supplement the turbines. Such a barrage would be best to run from North Wales to say Formby Point, but this precludes a Wirral road/rail crossing

    The attractiveness of a barrage is the road link. I recall that a Dee barrage as well as the Mersey was suggested about 20 years ago as then a road link direct to North Wales would be in place. Damming the Dee is now an environmental no, no – although a barrage further out damming the bay may be feasible and not affect wildlife too much. Hilbre Island may then be a permanent island.

    A Mersey barrage can also act as a barrier to stop surge tides from flooding low lying land around the Mersey estuary. The Mersey estuary does have a flood risk to it, although nothing like London and the Thames. One of the reasons people are saying the government should move the capital away from London – Liverpool is the prime candidate. Another 1953 flooding compounded by higher sea levels would mean London would be flooded and cease to be a major world city. It is not a matter of if it is a mater of when. What saved London in 1953 was that the flood defences in the Thames estuary failed and water that would have flooded London flooded the low lying land around the estuary. If the government ministries are flooded the country could grind to a halt. Moving the government and ministries away from London is good thing in many ways - not just for flood protection.

    London should be abandoned as a major city and all essential services and activities moved elsewhere. It is as stupid as building on the eathquake fault line in California.

    Maintaining the Mersey water levels is a great thing as leisure craft can operate with reduced risk.

    Any barrage would need large locks to cater for post Panamax container ships, unless the ships can berth on the seaward side of the barrage or on the barrage itself, or maybe with locks directly into Seaforth dock via the barrage or directly into Liverpool Bay by-passing the barrage.
    Last edited by Waterways; 09-30-2007 at 12:25 PM.

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    Default Mersey barrage

    Any movement on the Mersey barrage? Anyone read anything that I have missed?
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    I was reading the studies on the Severn and Mersey barrages. The Severn would produce 6% of the UKs electricity and the Mersey 1%. That is significant, and that was a study 15 to 20 years ago, so maybe more now.

    A Mersey barrage would give much more to the area:

    1. A road bridge
    2. rail bridge
    3. An enviro power station
    4. Ship berthing all along the river walls of the docks
    5. Ships able to berth near the city centre.
    6. An enclosed current free body of water
    7. A large body of water for leisure purposes.
    8. A platform for leisure facilities as restaurants
    9. A platform for a high viewing tower
    10. Berthing for large Post-Panamx ships inside and outside the barrage
    11. The ability to build islands in the river for tall buildings.

    We gain so much. The barrage is a must have project and should be pursued ASAP.
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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Found this recent report. Appears the barrage is not dead yet.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...asevern125.xml

    In this picture of Liverpool's waterfront from a Skyscraper site, there is an eco building before it was fashionable - late 60s/early 1970s. To the right of the tallest building the "sandcastle". This only uses the boilers for an hour or so on Monday mornings - there are few windows and it is heavily insulated, for the time it was built. There are three tunnels under the river, two road and one rail. The water pumped from these tunnels cools the building the rest of the time.



    The Sandcastle is to be extended and glass atriums added to enhance the eco aspect - and hopefully re-clad with extra external insulation which keeps in heat and coolth.

    To the left of the picture buildings about 1/2 as tall again as the highest are to be built shortly. Many are in planning. These should ideally adopt the same method of free cooling too. It needs legislation to do it as developers take the easy way out each time and fix in electrically powered chillers - apart from the odd one like the Sandcastle. Look at all the buildings. If all were cooled from river water the energy that could be saved. Reducing energy usage is as important as generating it in green way.
    Last edited by Waterways; 10-02-2007 at 12:34 PM.
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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Power from the Mersey in 2020
    Oct 9 2007 by Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

    PLANS to build a tidal barrage on the River Mersey are expected to be lodged by Mersey Docks and Harbour Company owners Peel Holdings by 2010, it was revealed last night.

    The giant generator would then produce enough power to meet the demands of thousands of homes by 2020.

    The announcement comes after an influential government advisory team yesterday named the Mersey as a new source of energy potential to meet growing 21st- century electricity needs.

    The national report by the Government’s independent adviser, the Sustainable Development Commission, highlighted the potential for power generation from the Mersey Estuary.

    Although focused mainly on suggestions to build a barrage across the River Severn, the report also raised the prospect of the Mersey and five other prime locations in the UK being suitable for tidal energy generation.

    The report, Turning the Tide – Tidal Power in the UK, concludes there is “real enthusiasm for harnessing the tidal resource in the Mersey, and a consortium of interests that might be willing to take this forward.”

    The report is being seen as a boost for a Mersey barrage initiative. It follows a separate study, called Power from the Mersey, published earlier this year by Peel Environmental and the Northwest Regional Development Agency, in association with the Mersey Basin Campaign.

    The new commission report includes a series of recommendations to the Government on how to develop the country’s tidal resource and emerging tidal technologies, to provide secure, low carbon electricity for the long term.

    It calculates that a barrage in the Severn Estuary could supply 4.4% of UK electricity supply.

    SDC chairman Jonathon Porritt said the UK could get at least 10% of its electricity from tidal power.

    In respect of the potential for power generation in the Mersey, the SDC report notes: “Our analysis has focused on the issue of a Severn barrage, but we have also looked at the extensive resource outside the Severn Estuary, including the well-developed proposals for the Mersey Estuary.

    “There is now renewed interest as a result of a recent study commissioned by Peel Environmental in association with the NWDA and the Mersey Basin Campaign.”

    Mr Porritt said: “The UK's unique tidal resources deserve particular consideration, and a Mersey scheme should be looked into carefully.”

    Last night, Peter Nears, strategic planning director for Mersey Docks and Harbour Company owners, Peel Holdings, welcomed the report.

    He revealed: “We shall be moving Power from the Mersey forward into a Phase 2 study shortly and we will include the recommendations of the SDC on the principles of sustainable development in the brief.

    “We hope this will result in a planning application by 2010, and a scheme delivering renewable power by 2020.”

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    This document has the barrage at Dingle - a 1992 proposal. New Brighton is the obvious place as the whole river will be locked in. That is then a lot of energy stored and ships can be berthed on river walls as the water level will be reasonably constant.
    http://www.raeng.org.uk/policy/repor...id_Lindley.pdf

    There was talk of giant turbines under the river that would turn each way when the tide moves in and out.

    Unless the barrage is a full barrage with a road over and ship locks, I think it is futile installing this.
    Last edited by Waterways; 10-09-2007 at 02:14 PM.
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    Steven
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    From Walton to the Dingle,
    You can hear the people cry,
    stop messin' around with Liverpool.

    At least until I die!


    Jackie and Bridie and 3+1.

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    Senior Member HollyBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    This document has the barrage at Dingle - a 1992 proposal. New Brighton is the obvious place as the whole river will be locked in. That is then a lot of energy stored and ships can be berthed on river walls as the water level will be reasonably constant.
    I have to admit that a barrage that is placed South of the Gladstone Docks River entrance but North of the Langton Dock River entrance seems to have a lot going for it in terms of volume of water captured. That would give the dock system a lot of flexibility. Ships could avoid the barrage by going through the docks if need be. Also, that location would not interfere with operations at Seaforth, including the coming post-Panamax facility.

    It also creates an ability to deal with extreme storm surges in the likely event that the world's weather becomes more unstable and sea levels rise.

    Presumably, in such a design, huge lock gates could be left wide open a half-hour hour or so each side of slack water, for large tankers and other ships to sail through on the tide and without stopping. I guess the Liverpool Pilotage service can look forward to a secure future!

    Has anyone proposed placing the barrage from New Brighton to the Alexandra Dock vicinity that we are aware of?

    It would be truly wonderful if, instead of becoming another vehicular river crossing, the barrage walls were extensively developed for leisure uses. Gosh, commercial features reminiscent of the old New Brighton promenade pier could be incorporated into the barrage structure and tourist-oriented ferry service provided. There are all manner of leisure and pleasure oriented possibilities that would sway Merseysiders to support the project. Fishing for the anglers, theatre, funfair, a place to ride Segways, cinema, a few very special hotel rooms, yacht berths, casual vendors, even motor-boat rides, Punch and Judy shows and deckchairs on fine days - all sorts of things to get people excited and supportive.
    Last edited by HollyBlack; 10-10-2007 at 01:01 AM.

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    Senior Member HollyBlack's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool Bay Tidal Lagoon

    http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nort...5578-20345622/
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan 14 2008 by David Powell, Daily Post http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2008/01/14/tide-power-alternative-to-turbines-55578-20345622/[/URL
    ]http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2008/01/14/tide-power-alternative-to-turbines-55578-20345622/
    WESTMINSTER and the Welsh Assembly are being urged to consider a “tidal lagoon” as an alternative to plans for 260 wind turbines off the coasts of Llandudno and Colwyn Bay.
    Conwy councillor Phil Edwards has written to both governments following a presentation to members by Rhos on Sea company Clwyd Offshore Tidal Energy.
    He is calling on both to investigate the feasibility of harnessing tidal energy before making a decision on whether to grant a licence for the wind turbines project.
    Coun Edwards told a meeting of Plaid Councillors at Llandudno on Friday: “It does not rely on whether there is any wind blowing, but gets its power from the tides coming in and out twice a day.” He said it would have environmental benefits.
    He added: “The tidal lagoon project would have the added benefit of not having the visual impact on our seascape, it would not require the import and transportation of large amounts of rock and concrete and it could possibly help towards protecting our coast from erosion.”
    Councillor Edwards urged ministers to look at the alternative scheme before making a decision on Gwynt Y Mor.
    “It has potential to be a world leader in renewable energy, could provide many benefits including much needed well paid jobs for local people,” he said.
    “It could be the most exciting project we have ever seen.”
    It seems that whereas South Wales is shy about being the guinea pig for the first offshore tidal lagoon in the world, North Wales is keen to get on with it.

    Tidal lagoons (imagine a huge circular dam built on the seabed offshore) have a lot going for them as compared with barrages once you get over the gut reaction against. And there are only two excellent places for tidal lagoons in the world other than in Canada - they are the Severn Estuary and the Eastern half of the Irish Sea (North Wales, Liverpool Bay, Lancashire Coast) - because of the presences of big tidal ranges combined with shallow seabed.

    It seems the major worry about tidal lagoons is whether the rubble walls proposed to be constructed will stand up to storms in the long run. That's why they want a "pilot" project - first in the world! Well I have news for them, the Crosby Channel Revetment has stood up to Winter storms for 50 to 100 years (it took 60 years to build, on and off). Mind you it is built of large limestone blocks mostly, not "rubble".

    So here's an idea - use the Revetment as one wall of a Tidal Lagoon. You could build a one mile railway viaduct from Red Noses to the end of existing Revetment which is about three quarters of a mile across the Crosby Channel from the old Seaforth Radar Tower. Then you can use the railway to bring in stone to reinforce the Revetment. Keep going for its entire length (about six+ miles) and then keep building more length and circling back until you have a lagoon of about 30 square miles of area! Because of the excellent tides in Liverpool Bay that would produce in the region of 500 to 1000MW of hydroelectricity - as much as a large modern nuclear power station. But the kicker is that its service life would be hundreds of years, not 40 or so.

    Oh, and by the way, you can plant wind turbines on the lagoon walls for ease of maintenance too. Actually there's all sorts of other stuff you can build on the sea walls, and reuse for the construction railway too.
    Last edited by HollyBlack; 02-02-2008 at 12:28 AM.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Daily Post

    Mersey Tidal Power

    Liverpool's Mersey tidal power moves step closer with key study
    Mar 4 2010
    by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

    FOUR ways of using the River Mersey to power the region’s homes have been selected.

    A feasibility study is currently looking at how to deliver the maximum affordable energy from the tidal resources in the Mersey estuary.

    And four technologies have been shortlisted as part of the Mersey Tidal Power project.

    The first two involve building barrages and using turbines to generate power – one with smaller turbines than the other.

    The other two involve building tidal fences.

    The first fence would have turbines designed for generating electricity in open streams.

    The second fence is based on a new device that concentrates the energy of slow-moving water into a smaller area of faster-flowing water using the so-called Venturi effect. Anthony Hatton, of development director of Peel Energy, which is leading the project, said: “This initial selection of technically suitable options represents a major step in the process to select a viable tidal power scheme for the Mersey Estuary.”

    He said it was hoped that an acceptable scheme could be developed in order to submit a planning application by the end of 2011.

    “There is a long way to go but our goal is to have a tidal power scheme generating electricity from the Mersey in time to contribute to the national target of generating 15% of the UK’s energy needs from renewable sources by 2020,” he added.

    The Mersey estuary has one of the largest tidal ranges in the country, and previous studies have shown that a large scheme could generate enough renewable energy to supply a significant proportion of homes in the region.

    The next stage of the feasibility study will examine possible sites in the estuary where the different technologies could best be used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    ......A Mersey barrage can also act as a barrier to stop surge tides from flooding low lying land around the Mersey estuary. The Mersey estuary does have a flood risk to it, although nothing like London and the Thames. ....
    Have there been any recent (one or two generations) flooding from the mersey that seriously affected Liverpool?

    Or has it all been storm damage at high tides?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    The Pier Head on a few occasions has been flooded. The canal would keep the water from going inland.

    The Docks themselves could acts a barrier, but they need to be deepened in some cases because they have filled them to canal boat depths. The gates need to centrally controlled. Allow the water out at low tides expecting water to lip over in very high tides into largely empty basins. A real high tide and storm surges may only keep it back for a short while.

    Any river barrage also needs a barrage at Bidston to prevent water entering the river via Birkenhead Docks coming in from Moreton/Liverpool Bay. There is a railway embankment there which needs strengthening, so it double up its function.

    There has been flooding at Crosby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    The Pier Head on a few occasions has been flooded. ..... .
    Was it truly flooded with the water level that high, or was it a storm surge at high tide?

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
    Was it truly flooded with the water level that high, or was it a storm surge at high tide?
    A bit of both. If these three events converge there will be serious flooding:
    1. Heavy rains and water filling the river from the land
    2. High Spring Tide
    3. Storms surges coming in from the west


    These three events occurred in the southern North Sea in 1953.The water moved onto the land with serious flooding in the UK, Belgium and Holland. 1000s died. What saved London was that a dyke in Essex collapsed and water destined for London moved over Essex. The water was lipping over the Embankment in London. London will flood - not a matter of if, but when.

    At the highest Spring tides if there is a storm surge water will move up the River Mersey and flooding will occur.
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