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Thread: Aigburth District

  1. #61
    PhilipG
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    Dear Wallasey.



    Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
    I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

    We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
    He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.

    Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
    Libraries are the places for original research.

  2. #62
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Hi Wallasey and PhilipG

    I agree totally about the dangers of relying on Wikipedia. To have an encyclopedia to which absolutely anyone can contribute is inviting trouble and much duff information and biased opinion has been posted on Wikipedia in the guise of providing the facts.

    Chris
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Dear Wallasey.

    Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
    I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

    We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
    He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.

    Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
    Libraries are the places for original research.
    I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

    This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.

  4. #64
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

    This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.
    This is what Wallasey said:

    "Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

    I find nothing wrong with that.

    "or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
    Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
    If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    This is what Wallasey said:

    "Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

    I find nothing wrong with that.

    "or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
    Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
    If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.
    As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

    Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.

  6. #66
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

    Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.
    Off the top of my head....
    Belem Tower was demolished and replaced by one of the first tower blocks.
    If that's the only one, it still counts as "or even demolition".

  7. #67
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

    Are you sure?

  8. #68
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

    Are you sure?:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

  9. #69
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

    I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

    Chris
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!
    That block of flats is set so far back from Aigburth Drive in it's own little close (Belem Close) that I don't think you're being fair! However, I'll accept it. Belem Tower sounds rather fancy. What was it?

  11. #71
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

    Chris
    There are a few post-war flats either side of Linnet Lane (Lark Lane end). Maybe they stem from war damage?

    Properties that had to be demolished as a result of war damage shouldn't count in this argument!

  12. #72
    Roving Arriva Bus User! wallasey's Avatar
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    For not wanting to start WW3;

    When I was talking about how some properties have been demolished, I was refering to the properties on the other side of the Gatehouse which is actually Mossley Hill Drive so I apologies there.

    I am actually having to do my best with the resources I have. Most of my Liverpool and Wirral books are actually at my parents house in Northumberland (where I lived for 17 years) so sourcing out info from literature is difficult. What normally happens is that I describe what is going on in the image so quite clearly in some respects, the buildings have been renovated. The restaurant (not imaged) more prominantly proves this as no doubt it was probably a private residence.

    Many thanks to Chirs George and PhillipG and I fully take on board what Jericho has said, nobody likes innaccuracies at the best of times!
    Liverpool Suburbia@Flickr

    UPDATED 14JUN09 20 images added to Dovecot
    Last updated 26ARP09 (Aigburth)
    Apologies for the durge in updates!

  13. #73
    PhilipG
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    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.

  14. #74
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Mere Bank, Sefton Park

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.
    Thanks for this Phil. I didn't know Norman Shaw designed this house. It was built for H Douglas Horsfall and was named after the previous family home in Everton. Douglas Horsfall built St Agnes Church Toxteth Park on Ullet Rd and its daughter church in Lidderdale Rd, L15, St Pancras, Toxteth Park. Later he also built St Paul's Stoneycroft and owned the tight of presentation of St Catherine, Abercromby Sq.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.
    Weren't Sydenham House, Buckingham house etc., and St Hilda's School built on property that fronted Ullet Road? People often forget just how classy Ullet Road used to be or indeed Croxteth Road for that matter. I can't believe that those flats overlooking Princes Park (off Ullet Road, just up from the Inglenook) were allowed to be built. There used to be at least a couple of great houses in that spot or thereabouts but sadly they were allowed to slip into terminal decay. Vaguely recall seeing the old gate posts still standing last time I looked but that might have been wishful thinking.

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