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Thread: Aigburth District

  1. #61
    PhilipG
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    Dear Wallasey.

    Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
    I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

    We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
    He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.


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    Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
    Libraries are the places for original research.

  2. #62
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    Hi Wallasey and PhilipG

    I agree totally about the dangers of relying on Wikipedia. To have an encyclopedia to which absolutely anyone can contribute is inviting trouble and much duff information and biased opinion has been posted on Wikipedia in the guise of providing the facts.

    Chris
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Dear Wallasey.

    Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
    I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

    We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
    He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.

    Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
    Libraries are the places for original research.
    I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

    This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.

  4. #64
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

    This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.
    This is what Wallasey said:

    "Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

    I find nothing wrong with that.

    "or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
    Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
    If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    This is what Wallasey said:

    "Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

    I find nothing wrong with that.

    "or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
    Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
    If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.
    As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

    Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.

  6. #66
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

    Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.
    Off the top of my head....
    Belem Tower was demolished and replaced by one of the first tower blocks.
    If that's the only one, it still counts as "or even demolition".

  7. #67
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

    Are you sure?

  8. #68
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

    Are you sure?:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

    I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

    Chris
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    OMG, Jericho.
    It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

    When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
    Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!
    That block of flats is set so far back from Aigburth Drive in it's own little close (Belem Close) that I don't think you're being fair! However, I'll accept it. Belem Tower sounds rather fancy. What was it?

  11. #71
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

    Chris
    There are a few post-war flats either side of Linnet Lane (Lark Lane end). Maybe they stem from war damage?

    Properties that had to be demolished as a result of war damage shouldn't count in this argument!

  12. #72
    Roving Arriva Bus User! wallasey's Avatar
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    For not wanting to start WW3;

    When I was talking about how some properties have been demolished, I was refering to the properties on the other side of the Gatehouse which is actually Mossley Hill Drive so I apologies there.

    I am actually having to do my best with the resources I have. Most of my Liverpool and Wirral books are actually at my parents house in Northumberland (where I lived for 17 years) so sourcing out info from literature is difficult. What normally happens is that I describe what is going on in the image so quite clearly in some respects, the buildings have been renovated. The restaurant (not imaged) more prominantly proves this as no doubt it was probably a private residence.

    Many thanks to Chirs George and PhillipG and I fully take on board what Jericho has said, nobody likes innaccuracies at the best of times!
    Liverpool Suburbia@Flickr

    UPDATED 14JUN09 20 images added to Dovecot
    Last updated 26ARP09 (Aigburth)
    Apologies for the durge in updates!

  13. #73
    PhilipG
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    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.

  14. #74
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Mere Bank, Sefton Park

    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.
    Thanks for this Phil. I didn't know Norman Shaw designed this house. It was built for H Douglas Horsfall and was named after the previous family home in Everton. Douglas Horsfall built St Agnes Church Toxteth Park on Ullet Rd and its daughter church in Lidderdale Rd, L15, St Pancras, Toxteth Park. Later he also built St Paul's Stoneycroft and owned the tight of presentation of St Catherine, Abercromby Sq.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
    Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.
    Weren't Sydenham House, Buckingham house etc., and St Hilda's School built on property that fronted Ullet Road? People often forget just how classy Ullet Road used to be or indeed Croxteth Road for that matter. I can't believe that those flats overlooking Princes Park (off Ullet Road, just up from the Inglenook) were allowed to be built. There used to be at least a couple of great houses in that spot or thereabouts but sadly they were allowed to slip into terminal decay. Vaguely recall seeing the old gate posts still standing last time I looked but that might have been wishful thinking.

  16. #76
    PhilipG
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    There was a recreation ground between Holt House and Mere Bank, and a plot big enough for one house on the other side of Mere Bank.
    These were the only open sites on that side of Ullet Road.
    All the rest of that side (including the sites of the post-war tower blocks) was occupied by large Victorian Houses.
    The new flats by Prince's Park were built on the site of Park Nook.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 02-13-2007 at 09:56 PM.

  17. #77
    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxmoly...7594541447897/

    Still looking through more but theres two of what I tried with my Sony.

    Might redo the church pic though.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

  18. #78
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxmoly...7594541447897/

    Still looking through more but theres two of what I tried with my Sony.

    Might redo the church pic though.
    Good work, Max. The church pics look great to me.

    Chris
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  19. #79
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    There a couple of newer properties around Sefton Park, between Lark Lane and the Alicia Hotel...Bloomfield Green, for one and some ugly new low level brick building. Maps around 100 years ago show large houses around Bloomfield Green.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm NZ View Post
    Have a walk down Lark Lane, Julia, Nice Area! and look down Hadassah Grove, check out the Lark Lane Web Site, and also handy for Sefton Park! Good Hunting!
    Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park?

  21. #81
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post

    Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park?
    How was it that they had all those larks in Lark Lane then?

    Chris
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  22. #82
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    Default b&b's in Aigburth

    Hi Chris /Everyone,

    Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
    Cheers and garlic bread,

    Sue.

  23. #83
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    Too posh - TOO POSH!!!!

    Pitch a tent in sevvy park then.

  24. #84
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    Too posh - TOO POSH!!!!

    Pitch a tent in sevvy park then.


    Or try the Grange Hotel.
    Only a couple of minutes walk away.

  25. #85
    theninesisters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hargy View Post
    Hi Chris /Everyone,

    Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
    Cheers and garlic bread,

    Sue.

    Camp out in the old tunnel that is situated in Otterspool Park - high up on the right hand side. Complete security and rainproof

  26. #86
    MarkA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hargy View Post
    Hi Chris /Everyone,

    Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
    Cheers and garlic bread,

    Sue.
    Just over the road from the cricket club is...
    http://www.innkeeperslodge.com/lodgedetail.asp?lid=30

  27. #87
    PhilipG
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    The average price at the Grange is £35.
    It was built in 1842, and I can recommend the food.
    http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...l_England.html

  28. #88
    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    The average price at the Grange is £35.
    It was built in 1842, and I can recommend the food.
    http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...l_England.html
    Per Taffy over on the James Maybrick thread:

    Dear Chris,

    This hotel has closed and has been converted into "luxury apartments". Liverpool no longer uses the word flats and of course all apartments are of the "luxury" variety. Not quite sure what "luxury" means, perhaps running hot and cold water !!

    Taffy
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  29. #89
    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Per Taffy over on the James Maybrick thread:

    Dear Chris,

    This hotel has closed and has been converted into "luxury apartments". Liverpool no longer uses the word flats and of course all apartments are of the "luxury" variety. Not quite sure what "luxury" means, perhaps running hot and cold water !!

    Taffy
    Oh dear, I didn't know that.
    The Grange went through various phases.
    In the 1980s it was housing Social Security tenants, but after that it reverted to being a "proper" hotel.
    Mrs Roberts, who lived over the road in Holmefield Lodge, treated me to the occassional meal at the Grange.

    At least it hasn't been demolished.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Oh dear, I didn't know that.
    The Grange went through various phases.
    In the 1980s it was housing Social Security tenants, but after that it reverted to being a "proper" hotel.
    Mrs Roberts, who lived over the road in Holmefield Lodge, treated me to the occassional meal at the Grange.

    At least it hasn't been demolished.
    Agreed, Philip, that is a good thing.

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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