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    Senior Member julia's Avatar
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    Default Aigburth District

    Does anyone here live in Aigburth or know anyone who does? If so, what do you (Or they) think of the area?


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    Someone at my temp job suggested it as a good neighbourhood with somewhat afforable house pricing. Is this correct?

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Aigburth Vales the nicest part of it.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Aigburth Vale is awful, there's more yobs around there than anywhere else.

    Try anywhere around the Cricket Club, that's ok. I remember seeing new housing estates being put up down that road by the Cricket club. Aigburth's quite nice. It's no Allerton but it's nice.

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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Default Re Aigburth!

    Have a walk down Lark Lane, Julia, Nice Area! and look down Hadassah Grove, check out the Lark Lane Web Site, and also handy for Sefton Park! Good Hunting!

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    South of Aigburth Vale - fine and dandy. Town end of Eggy Vale isn't brilliant and deteriorates as it reaches bottom of Park Rd. Popular with students that end.

    Lark Lane is a wonderful area - a jewel in Liverpool's crown.
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    I quite like being round there, And to be honest, I would call the Park Road area Dingle rather than Aigburth!

    It is pleasant though and is very leafy; There is also a variation of side street housing too. Some are lengthy terraces (with a view of North Wales sometimes) and others are very leafy streets with large villa housing. The bad thing about that area is that the nearest Sayers is more or less in Dingle as it is round by Park Road. Eggy Vale has a good selection of shops and buses to the city, the airport and to Bootle via Queens Drive. So it is well placed for commuting.

    The suburb was featured in "Watching" if anyone recalls. Malcolm and Brenda moved into a house which was owned by Bernard and Malcolms Aunt. Brenda found it to be very boreing. Something I don't know about!

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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    South of Aigburth Vale - fine and dandy. Town end of Eggy Vale isn't brilliant and deteriorates as it reaches bottom of Park Rd. Popular with students that end.

    Lark Lane is a wonderful area - a jewel in Liverpool's crown.
    Oh dear!
    I live at the bottom of Park Road.
    No students near me, just new property, renovated property, and Victorian terraces opposite the Ancient Chapel.

    However, there are plenty of students at the beginning of the Aigburth Road/Ullet Road area.
    Last edited by PhilipG; 01-30-2007 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Oh dear!
    I live at the bottom of Park Road.
    No students near me, just new property, renovated property, and Victorian terraces opposite the Ancient Chapel.

    However, there are plenty of students at the beginning of the Aigburth Road/Ullet Road area.
    Students= Pure Evil.

    Especially when they wake my Sister up with their music at night.

    Landlords won't rent to anyone else.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    no longer a lurker johnmed's Avatar
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    I moved to Aigburth Vale just over a year ago from Waterloo.

    Since moving here my car has been vandalised twice. My girlfriend's 3 times, and my mate's car is pretty much constantly kicked and run over.

    New Year's Day; two new windscreens for my girl and mate, after they were kicked in.

    Don't know why it's like it is here, it looks so nice, is leafy, parks abound.

    However Aigburth as a whole, I have been told, is fine...

    Lark Lane is ok, like a poor man's Camden I think.

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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmed View Post
    I moved to Aigburth Vale just over a year ago from Waterloo.

    Since moving here my car has been vandalised twice. My girlfriend's 3 times, and my mate's car is pretty much constantly kicked and run over.

    New Year's Day; two new windscreens for my girl and mate, after they were kicked in.

    Don't know why it's like it is here, it looks so nice, is leafy, parks abound.

    However Aigburth as a whole, I have been told, is fine...

    Lark Lane is ok, like a poor man's Camden I think.


    Which part of Camden is Lark Lane like? I might be wrong mate but something tells me that you don't know Lark Lane or Camden all that well!

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    no longer a lurker johnmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    [/B]

    Which part of Camden is Lark Lane like? I might be wrong mate but something tells me that you don't know Lark Lane or Camden all that well!


    My sister lived in Camden a while back, and i visited quite a lot. I think Lark Ln has a similar alternative/rustic/unwashed feel to it.

    I live a 5-10 minute walk from Lark Ln too, we go there frequently; Maranto's is great for steak!

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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmed View Post

    My sister lived in Camden a while back, and i visited quite a lot. I think Lark Ln has a similar alternative/rustic/unwashed feel to it.

    I live a 5-10 minute walk from Lark Ln too, we go there frequently; Maranto's is great for steak!
    Thanks for that. Have you tried Que Pasa Cantina? Much better than Maranto's for food/atmosphere/music. I always associate Marantos with somewhere you take the entire extended family but in the end, as always, it's down to personal taste.

    Anyway, the reason I queried Camden was because the borough is so large, containing places like Camden Town, Belsize Park, Hampstead, all very different. Because of the term 'alternative' I'm assuming you mean Camden Town. I'm now sifting through the main streets in my mind: Camden High Street, Parkway, Camden Road, Chalk Farm Road etc and none of them stikes me as being like Lark Lane.

    Not sure I see Lark Lane as 'unwashed'! You do see a few unwashed people hanging about but less so now than a few years ago. The Camden Roads I mentioned above are heaving with London life and traffic (by comparison, Lark Lane is like a village High Street!). Poverty is much more apparent in Camden Town, too. Not many people are pushing the Big Issue on Lark Lane. I guess I didn't get the idea of a 'poor man's Camden' when overall people seem poorer in Camden Town than they do in the area around Lark Lane. A poor man's Hampstead - that works. Maybe that was the part of Camden you were getting at in the first place?

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Lark Lane Sefton Park

    This is a delightfully attractive area and well worth exploring for those who don't know it. I've always been puzzled as to how on earth it came to be classed as being in Aigburth when patently is never has been. Is it simply because Aigburth Rd is nearby? I've come to the conclusion it probably dates back to the time when the trams only went as far as Aigburth Vale but were labelled as travelling to Aigburth. Aigburth of course being a district of Garston township whose boundary was at Aigburth Vale.

    With the development of Sefton Park in the 1870s, the naming of half the ring road as Aigburth Drive also probably added to the confusion. The building of Sefton Park led to the whole area, a subset of Toxteth Park, being called Sefton Park though Liverpool street directories still called the area Toxteth Park well into the mid 20th C. The naming of the area Sefton Park led to the new library built on Aigburth Rd being called Sefton Park library rather than say Aigburth Library as one might expect if the correct name for the area were Aigburth.

    Later the local council wards were named after Sefton Park. These wards largely followed the Toxteth Park boundaries. Thus the dales streets area between Smithdown Road and Garmoyle Rd L15 in what many now call Wavertree was actually called Sefton Park simply because it was in the Sefton Park ward, a part of Toxteth Park.

    One of the best guides to correct district names are Church of England Parish names as these have a legal status which can only be changed by Act of Parliament. So they tend to be correct !! Thus Christ Church Linnet Lane off Lark Lane L17 proudly states it's in Toxteth Park and not Aigburth. Similarly for St Agnes on nearby Ullet Rd L17 and the now demolished St Andrew on Normanton Rd L17 anhd quite close to Lark Lane



    Any one have any other thought on this one?
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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    I wouldn't read too much into parish statutes! The catholic archdiocese of Liverpool contains Lanchashire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester within it. I guess we could argue that those places are spiritually a provence if Liverpool! (JOKE). Often in an attempt to curry legitimacy the church anchors itself in a pre-existing entity whether its Toxteth Park or Christmas (Yule). This doesn't mean that 'Toxteth Park' has any meaning beyond church affairs.

    In the case of the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale, if local people don't say they live in Aigburth (or St Michaels, Fulwood Park, Sefton Park, Lark Lane area) they will say that they live in L17. There is no allegiance whatsoever to Toxteth or Toxteth Park. Many people know that Sefton Park is on the site of the area covered by Toxteth Park but the park is always referred to as Sefton Park! Toxteth Park was in no way a 'park' as we understand it!

    Apart from benign neglect until recently by LCC, I think that part of the reason for this confusion is because there isn't really an academically rigorous history of Liverpool textbook (or series of textbooks). All the history books I have read have either been written by amateurs or published by the LEA in the form of a list of dates with a little bit of added information. The current '800th Birthday Book' is very much 'history to go' rather than rigorous in its analysis of how a city came into being and how it managed the tensions within and outside it.

    The amateur historians make a great contribution and I value it. The downside for me is that, for example in terms of twentieth century history, the tendency is to over sentimentalise events or changes in the city. If that is reigned in, the danger then is often one of an over-reliance on anecdotalism, or a history that is the product of other history books rather than a critical analysis of source documents. Often the focus is on what happened without much of an analysis of why it happened. Currently it seems to me that there is a tendency to present the story of the north end of the city as if it reflected the city as a whole. It doesn't. For example, and just for argument's sake, if South Liverpool were detached from the rest of Liverpool, it would function as an average similar sized locality within England,with similar levels of deprivation. Once North Liverpool is added on the city shoots up towards the top of the list of most deprived English cities. The differences between the two halves (an over-simplification) of the city isn't reflected in recent history books. Anyway that's another story!
    Last edited by Jericho; 02-09-2007 at 09:12 AM.

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Will the real Aigburth reveal itself

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post

    In the case of the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale, if local people don't say they live in Aigburth (or St Michaels, Fulwood Park, Sefton Park, Lark Lane area) they will say that they live in L17. There is no allegiance whatsoever to Toxteth or Toxteth Park. Many people know that Sefton Park is on the site of the area covered by Toxteth Park but the park is always referred to as Sefton Park! Toxteth Park was in no way a 'park' as we understand it!

    I still don't really understand how the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area came to be classed as Aigburth when patently it never has been which was the main point of my query. Estate agents of course class all of L17 as Aigburth these days including Greenbank Drive by Smithdown Rd, I noticed recently. Some one of the list suggested the locals call the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area Aigburth out of snobbery but it must be more than that. How did a major place name error become common place amongst the population. I suugested simply it became associated as Aigburth simply by the old signs on the trams. There may be another explanation.

    I attach an interesting road sign showing Aigburth as being 2 1/4 miles ( correctly) from the junction of Sefton park Rd with Ullet Rd. This of course takes you to roughly Jericho Lane/ Ashfield Rd which is the correct start of the real Aigburth which was of course a district within the Garston township
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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    I think that there has been leakage between postcode and district with everyone who lives in L17 saying that they live in Aigburth. One way to manage this would be to move the signs for Aigburth from Aigburth Vale to the beginning of Aigburth Road where most people in this area regard it as starting. People from L8 often accuse people who live in the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale as saying they live in 'Aigburth' for snobbish reasons. That may be part of it. An L17 postcode can increase the value of your house by a considerable bit. A terraced house in somwhere like Gwendoline Street, L8 can be worth up to 100K less than a similar terrace in Belgrave Road, L17. At the turn of the century the St Michael's area was the most affluent in the entire country and Fulwood Park is classier than anything Aigburth proper has to offer, and then when you take the houses around Sefton Park and in the area between Lark Lane and Ullet Road, it's Aigburth proper that risks being shown up as wanting. Don't lets forget, whilst were at it, that the shops/ restaurants of Aigburth Road/Lark Lane north of Aigburth vale are much, much better than anything south of it (there isn't that much in comparison!). When people think of Aigburth as 'trendy', they are not thinking of the area south of Aigburth Vale (because it isn't).

    So just where is Aigburth? Is it the suburb south of Aigburth Vale or is it the soul of South Liverpool north of this area? Is it a bit of both?

    Move the signs LCC! Map the district onto the psychological reality that is Aigburth!

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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    And in case you haven't guessed, I was born and live in Aigburth south of Aiburth Vale but my heart (and soul) is located in the area north of it - all of which I think of as being Aigburth!

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    PhilipG
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    Aigburth Hall was in Aigburth Hall Avenue, near the Cricket Ground.
    Presumably Aigburth Vale is part of Aigburth.
    Apart from that it's always been difficult to define where Aigburth is (or was).

    It could be argued that a street sign directing you to somewhere would take you to the centre of that place.

    There are different types of boundaries:
    Parish, Municipal, Parliamentary, Historical, Snobbish, etc., that it's practically impossible to define them.
    I'll stick with history, because I know where Toxteth Park is.

    It was the Riots of 1981 that gave Toxteth a bad name, and the media resurrected the name that Scousers didn't use.
    But the original Toxteth Park was so large that it's only natural that it's been sub-divided.
    And it was created as a park for pleasure, but it wasn't a public park, and was probably never used much for hunting deer, with which it was stocked.

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    Senior Member ChrisGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipG View Post
    Aigburth Hall was in Aigburth Hall Avenue, near the Cricket Ground.
    Presumably Aigburth Vale is part of Aigburth.
    Apart from that it's always been difficult to define where Aigburth is (or was).

    It could be argued that a street sign directing you to somewhere would take you to the centre of that place.

    There are different types of boundaries:
    Parish, Municipal, Parliamentary, Historical, Snobbish, etc., that it's practically impossible to define them.
    I'll stick with history, because I know where Toxteth Park is.

    It was the Riots of 1981 that gave Toxteth a bad name, and the media resurrected the name that Scousers didn't use.
    But the original Toxteth Park was so large that it's only natural that it's been sub-divided.
    And it was created as a park for pleasure, but it wasn't a public park, and was probably never used much for hunting deer, with which it was stocked.
    Hi Philip et al.

    I lived at 76 Aigburth Hall Avenue nearly opposite the shops and we always thought of it as Mossley Hill. Riversdale Road, the extension of Aigburth Hall Avenue, on the opposite side of Aigburth Road, which runs down toward the Mersey is where the Maybricks lived at 7 Riversdale Road.

    As I noted in the James Maybrick thread, Florence Maybrick in her autobiography, My Lost Fifteen Years, actually calls the place where she lived "Aigwerth" rather than "Aigburth" although of course that could have been a typo in the book. As a child, I had always thought of the cricket ground as the Aigburth cricket ground. As Taffy said, Aigburth is "a district of Garston township whose boundary was at Aigburth Vale."

    With respect, Philip, I am not sure we can say for sure how much hunting went on in Toxteth Park. If the park was purposely stocked with deer, I should think there was quite a bit, although I am not sure there are any records. Maybe someone else can clarify where there might be any records on the numbers of deer hunted.

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    Senior Member shytalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi Philip et al.

    As a child, I had always thought of the cricket ground as the Aigburth cricket ground.

    Chris
    There is (or used to be) an Aigburth cricket club. It is located in St. Michaels Hamlet. I believe it is in Southwood Rd. or Bucheleuch(sp) St.
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    PhilipG
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi Philip et al.


    With respect, Philip, I am not sure we can say for sure how much hunting went on in Toxteth Park. If the park was purposely stocked with deer, I should think there was quite a bit, although I am not sure there are any records. Maybe someone else can clarify where there might be any records on the numbers of deer hunted.

    Chris
    With respect, Chris, I think we can be quite sure that Toxteth Park was seldom used for hunting.
    King John set it up for himself, and it is known that he hardly ever visited it.
    And to ask for records of how many deer were hunted - that's going a bit too far!

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Aigburth and Mossley Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    Hi Philip et al.

    I lived at 76 Aigburth Hall Avenue nearly opposite the shops and we always thought of it as Mossley Hill.
    Chris
    Dear Chris

    Mossley Hill per se has no defined boundaries but spreads over a number of townships including Garston within which of course lies Aigburth.

    SS Matthew and James Mossley Hill Church parish boundary extends just beyond Aigburth Hall Rd, so yes you are right in one sense to say you lived in Mossley Hill. Of course you also lived in Aigburth !!! See church parish boundary web site link below

    http://www.acny.org.uk/parish.php?p=22/31

    Best wishes

    taffy

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Aigburth and the Dingle L17

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    I think that there has been leakage between postcode and district with everyone who lives in L17 saying that they live in Aigburth. One way to manage this would be to move the signs for Aigburth from Aigburth Vale to the beginning of Aigburth Road where most people in this area regard it as starting. People from L8 often accuse people who live in the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale as saying they live in 'Aigburth' for snobbish reasons. That may be part of it. So just where is Aigburth? Is it the suburb south of Aigburth Vale or is it the soul of South Liverpool north of this area? Is it a bit of both?

    Move the signs LCC! Map the district onto the psychological reality that is Aigburth!
    Interestingly the council already have a sign at the junction of Dingle Lane and Aigburth Rd. It says Aigburth 1 1/4 miles !!! that is along Aigburth Rd. Of course the original name for this stretch of Aigburth Rd was Park Rd as in Toxteth Park.

    The Aigburth sign on Victoria Rd, Aigburth Vale is one of the few actually sited in the right place. Interestingly the council placed another Aigburth sign on Riverside Drive near to the municipal tip and Jericho Lane. This was almost in the right place but of course it caused a great rumpus as all those delightful people living along Riverside Drive felt they were no longer in "Aigburth" which of course they weren't really in the first place. In the event the council succumbed to political pressure, removed the sign but did not resite it.

    Further along Riverside Drive they put a sign which said "Dingle". Again correctly sited near Promenade Gardens L17. This meant that all those people in those expensive L17 Riverside Drive Houses now not only didn't live in Aigburth but dread of dread actually lived in the Dingle. Oh dear they couldn't have that, so the Dingle sign was moved back about 1/2 mile towards the town centre.

    So all this leads to an interesting question. The area around Dingle Lane has changed its post code from L8 to L17. Part of it used to be the old Dingle Oil terminal. Does this mean that in the last 20 years, this has now changed from being in the Dingle to being in Aigburth. Reading Jericho's post one can only be drawn to that conclusion. Or are the people living near the Dingle allotments wrong to say they live in Aigburth.

    A Dingle of course is a wooded valley which the council kindly filled with household rubbish around 1900. I'm not sure how the whole of the area along Park Rd came to be called the Dingle or indeed the logic of the council's new siting of the Dingle sign at Park St near the old Brunswick Dock. Of course as there still is no other sign all the way along Riverside Drive, the people there still live, according to the council, in the Dingle.
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    Senior Member Jericho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    Interestingly the council already have a sign at the junction of Dingle Lane and Aigburth Rd. It says Aigburth 1 1/4 miles !!! that is along Aigburth Rd. Of course the original name for this stretch of Aigburth Rd was Park Rd as in Toxteth Park.

    The Aigburth sign on Victoria Rd, Aigburth Vale is one of the few actually sited in the right place. Interestingly the council placed another Aigburth sign on Riverside Drive near to the municipal tip and Jericho Lane. This was almost in the right place but of course it caused a great rumpus as all those delightful people living along Riverside Drive felt they were no longer in "Aigburth" which of course they weren't really in the first place. In the event the council succumbed to political pressure, removed the sign but did not resite it.

    Further along Riverside Drive they put a sign which said "Dingle". Again correctly sited near Promenade Gardens L17. This meant that all those people in those expensive L17 Riverside Drive Houses now not only didn't live in Aigburth but dread of dread actually lived in the Dingle. Oh dear they couldn't have that, so the Dingle sign was moved back about 1/2 mile towards the town centre.

    So all this leads to an interesting question. The area around Dingle Lane has changed its post code from L8 to L17. Part of it used to be the old Dingle Oil terminal. Does this mean that in the last 20 years, this has now changed from being in the Dingle to being in Aigburth. Reading Jericho's post one can only be drawn to that conclusion. Or are the people living near the Dingle allotments wrong to say they live in Aigburth.

    A Dingle of course is a wooded valley which the council kindly filled with household rubbish around 1900. I'm not sure how the whole of the area along Park Rd came to be called the Dingle or indeed the logic of the council's new siting of the Dingle sign at Park St near the old Brunswick Dock. Of course as there still is no other sign all the way along Riverside Drive, the people there still live, according to the council, in the Dingle.
    It's only recently that ANY signs for the Dingle have been seen at all. You're right to say that the area around what used to be the old oil terminal is now Liverpool 17. Personally, I think this is a con. It should be part of L8 but for some reason people spending 300k on a house don't want a L8 postcode. How nouveau riche is that?! The residents petitioned to have the Dingle sign taken down when it was erected. However, for the sake of consistency, I'm happy for anyone living in L17 to say that they live in Aigburth. With the forthcoming development of the festival site, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that whole area becomes officially known as St Michaels-in-the-Hamlet. Sounds better than Aigburth to me

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    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Adieu Aigburth

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    With the forthcoming development of the festival site, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that whole area becomes officially known as St Michaels-in-the-Hamlet. Sounds better than Aigburth to me
    I'd agree with that. The area is after all called St Michael's on all Liverpool OS maps and the boundary for St Michael in the Hamlet, Toxteth Park, Church runs all the way along Riverside Drive to the now culverted River Jordan in Otterspool Park. This stream was of course the official Toxteth boundary. St Anne's Church Aigburth parish being on the other side of the River Jordan.

    I should perhaps declare an interest in this curiosity about why the Lark Lane and St Michael's area became called Aigburth. Our family lived at 32 Parkfield Rd, Sefton Park in the late 19th C. Census information shows this correctly to be in Toxteth Park. It was never said to be in Aigburth at that time. Nowadays of course that address is the local abortion clinic !!!

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    Default hello all !

    very good

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy View Post
    And there was I thinking Aigburth was supposed to be the posh end of town. But then the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area isn't really Aigburth at all despite what many will tell you and want to believe
    I was talking about Wavertree really On the students part.

    Going to Aigburth for a couple of pics, just thinking what their Is.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm NZ View Post
    Have a walk down Lark Lane, Julia, Nice Area! and look down Hadassah Grove, check out the Lark Lane Web Site, and also handy for Sefton Park! Good Hunting!
    Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post

    Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park?
    How was it that they had all those larks in Lark Lane then?

    Chris
    Christopher T. George
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    Default b&b's in Aigburth

    Hi Chris /Everyone,

    Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
    Cheers and garlic bread,

    Sue.

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