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Thread: Brunswick Dock Area

  1. #121
    Senior Member AK1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    "Studio Egret West (SEW) has been named on a four-strong shortlist to replace Ian Simpson on the doomed Brunswick Quay scheme in Liverpool, the AJ can exclusively reveal. The frustrated developer behind the project, Maro, has approached the former Will Alsop duo as well as BDP, Broadway Malyan and Liverpool-based DTR Ormrod to come up with fresh designs for the waterfront plot"
    Potentially great news, but lets wait and see. (Thanks for the update Paul)

  2. #122
    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    Potentially great news, but lets wait and see. (Thanks for the update Paul)

    No problem matey,if you're expecting anything like the last proposal though I think you should prepare to be disappointed,I can't see anything above 25 stories.They may even have a couple of towers of that size just to keep everyone sweet like they did with Central Village.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    No problem matey,if you're expecting anything like the last proposal though I think you should prepare to be disappointed,I can't see anything above 25 stories.They may even have a couple of towers of that size just to keep everyone sweet like they did with Central Village.
    To be honest I wouldn't mind if it was a low rise development as long as it's still iconic and unique. I don't think a building has to be tall for it to be great, it's the design and uniqueness that makes a building iconic.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    To be honest I wouldn't mind if it was a low rise development as long as it's still iconic and unique. I don't think a building has to be tall for it to be great, it's the design and uniqueness that makes a building iconic.
    Yeah I agree,I'd settle for a couple of nice towers to be honest,as long as they make a decent impression on the skyline because it's a bit flat to the South of the Waterfront.I hope they don't approve something bland though because the original Maro effort was special.

  5. #125
    PhilipG
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    It would certainly be unique (for today's Liverpool) if it was really tall.
    A reminder perhaps that Liverpool had the tallest office building in Europe for about 50 years!

  6. #126
    kat2
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    Smile Brunswick





    july24
    kat
    Last edited by kat2; 07-25-2007 at 04:11 AM.

  7. #127
    kat2
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    Smile


    photo taken July 24
    Brunswick area
    kat

  8. #128
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    South West Brunswick Dock shed...seems to be some internal demolition taking place (can be seen from riverside walk, as the road is blocked off).
    The funny thing about Brunswick Business Park is that it's mostly made up from Harrington and Toxteth Docks...except the little bit mentioned above.

  9. #129
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    SW Brunswick Dock shed. These are the last of the Brunswick Dock Sheds. I don't know yet if total demolition is taking place...but the next few days will tell.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/25632502@N00/1198039358/

  10. #130
    Senior Member verdi's Avatar
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    Yep, total demolition, was talking to one of the workies, (was a scouser!!!) There is a tower of some sort going on the site, though not as high as wanted. As I sit here and gaze at Snowdon,from my window, as this building will now block my view of the river and Wales. No doubt half the ( luxury apartments)?? shall remain empty. There is to be a gym of some sort there too. The lease is up on the rest of Brunswick business park, so more business's will be leaving and more (luxury??) apartments appearing!!

  11. #131
    Senior Member A.D.W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdi View Post
    Yep, total demolition, was talking to one of the workies, (was a scouser!!!) There is a tower of some sort going on the site, though not as high as wanted. As I sit here and gaze at Snowdon,from my window, as this building will now block my view of the river and Wales. No doubt half the ( luxury apartments)?? shall remain empty. There is to be a gym of some sort there too. The lease is up on the rest of Brunswick business park, so more business's will be leaving and more (luxury??) apartments appearing!!
    Yep! I work in the Brunswick Business Park, I'll not say where as to protect the innocent, but we are 'moving' to the Speke village some time next year.

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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    To be honest I wouldn't mind if it was a low rise development as long as it's still iconic and unique. I don't think a building has to be tall for it to be great, it's the design and uniqueness that makes a building iconic.
    icon; recognizable symbol: a picture or symbol that is universally recognized to be representative of something
    Encarta World English Dictionary & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


    It is neither design nor 'uniqueness' that makes any thing iconic. The worst deisgned hospital on the planet can represent the health system whic operates it and is therefore iconic.

    I don't understand how iconic and unique can be used in the same sentence. This is not simple pedantics. I am trying to understand what it is you want.

  13. #133
    kat2
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    ponder this, for something to be iconic, it would have to be uneque, one of a kind, or another way the best in the field. Icon a symbol, a symbol of
    something could be deemed as iconic due to its unequeness. Doesnt matter what discapline you apply this too, ** except my spelling which is far from it! *g*
    kat

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    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Far too often (especially tall) buildings are described as iconic where they are merely impressive in size.

    They represent nothing and mean nothing, vide this Ian Simpson's Brunswick Quay proposal which looks remarkably like the Beetham Tower in Manchester, remarkably like his South Bank Tower and remarkably like three new towers in Piccadilly yet to grace this remarkably un-iconic 'skyline'

    There are to intents and purpose identical; in no sense unique and really if they are iconic, what on earth do they represent?

    Do we really want this meaningless rubbish in Liverpool which has a giant aspiration way beyond this lilliputian, one idea no hoper?

    Being tall is no good enough; not good enough for Liverpool in any event.

  15. #135
    kat2
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    Tall buildings in Liverpool have something to be iconic about, look for example at the views towards the welsh countryside, look at the fact that Liverpool over looks the River Mersey, what do the tall iconic buildings offer in Manchester? perhaps a look out over the city! but, then, how can this compare, if it was to be compared with the views of our natural geographic location, is that not unique?, to be fair with some of the Manchester scrapers, I think they got the status because they were the first in the area, but by no means architecturally the best. icon generally means a symbol.
    kat

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    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Building tall has a lot to offer in Liverpool and I look forward to what will be a fantastic (high-rise) skyline that represents the bold and adventurous spirit and a new prosperity for the city that is significant on a global scale.

    The Brunswick Quay proposals are just not good enough to match this aspiration. A truly mediocre building and in the wrong place.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by petromax View Post
    Building tall has a lot to offer in Liverpool and I look forward to what will be a fantastic (high-rise) skyline that represents the bold and adventurous spirit and a new prosperity for the city that is significant on a global scale.

    The Brunswick Quay proposals are just not good enough to match this aspiration. A truly mediocre building and in the wrong place.
    I agree that the building wasn't original enough, and it was also in the wrong place... It's a city centre design placed too far out of the centre it would look bizzare. But the argument was never about design and people should stop bashing the planners as though this was a heritage lobby, anti-tall building argument. Toxteth is a poor area, what it needs is jobs, not a load of yuppies moving in causing all the local shops and bars to go upmarket so that locals can no longer afford it.

  18. #138
    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    But regeneration tends to have a knock on effect,I see you point with the yuppies but this development would also have created jobs and probably would have kickstarted further developments.

  19. #139
    Senior Member petromax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    But regeneration tends to have a knock on effect,I see you point with the yuppies but this development would also have created jobs and probably would have kickstarted further developments.

    But there was nothing happening at ground level; No shops, no pubs, no places to meet; nothing civic - one of the original 'wind-swept' plazas.

    I agree a good development here would kick start further developments and an extended community but this design just wasn't it.

  20. #140
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petromax View Post
    Far too often (especially tall) buildings are described as iconic where they are merely impressive in size.

    They represent nothing and mean nothing, vide this Ian Simpson's Brunswick Quay proposal which looks remarkably like the Beetham Tower in Manchester, remarkably like his South Bank Tower and remarkably like three new towers in Piccadilly yet to grace this remarkably un-iconic 'skyline'
    I couldn't disagree more. The Brunswick Quay Tower was sail shaped, in theme with nautical Liverpool, highly finished and nothing at all like any building in Manchester. It compliments the location it was to be set in. It was no off-the-shelf design. The governments chief architect was all for it and was praisweworthy of the design and its settiing in the location.

    Do we really want this meaningless rubbish in Liverpool which has a giant aspiration way beyond this lilliputian, one idea no hoper?

    Being tall is no good enough; not good enough for Liverpool in any event.
    The Brunswick Quay Tower was not meaningless rubbish at all. It was "iconic", not just big. It was on a bend in the river where the Liverpool escarpemnt falls away after rising in Everton, facing the river one side and the docks the other side and right on a river lock too.

    It would have attracted much high quality development to off-set the the lack-lustre developments that were built in the South End docks paving the way to remove the business parks, excavate all or part of the in-filled docks, and get the businesses into proper business areas inland with better transport connections. Then leaving the waters for people to live around and enjoy.

    Liverpool can't afford to turn down high quality billion pound developments - the reason it was turned down was because of petty political party politics. All Labour councilors voted for and all LibDem against bar one.

    The current economic boom may be over faster than what we think and Liverpool may have missed out on quality investment - yet again. Make hey while the sun shines!!! Once again Liverpool shoots itself in the foot.
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  21. #141
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottieroader View Post
    I agree that the building wasn't original enough, and it was also in the wrong place...
    I disagree. It was totally in the right place.

    It's a city centre design placed too far out of the centre it would look bizzare.
    The idea is to get the city onto the dock waterways - people living and enjoying themselves there. Liverpool city centre is like an inland city centre with nothing to indicate that there is a massive port adjacent. Only a small secvtion of the centre - the Pier Head and then the Albert Dock recently touched the river. Move the centre onto the water - make it more linear.

    But the argument was never about design and people should stop bashing the planners as though this was a heritage lobby, anti-tall building argument. Toxteth is a poor area, what it needs is jobs, not a load of yuppies moving in causing all the local shops and bars to go upmarket so that locals can no longer afford it.
    Oh no!!! Not this working class stuff again. Liverpool over the past 25-30 years was highjacked by a certain type of person of a certain class, accent and dress, who think their ways are the only way and the city should acomodate their sub-culture.

    The working class community adjacent to Brunswick Dock is sparse indeed. Not many live around there. Their pubs would remain their own and they would not want to sit in a wine bar sipping Pims anyway. How many of them drop into the Chinese restaurant for a quick meal on the Herculaneum locks? Err, er, er...few indeed.

    BTW, I was born within yards of Brunswick Dock.
    Last edited by Waterways; 09-29-2007 at 11:25 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  22. #142
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    I remember the start of the re-development at Brunswick/Coburg docks. whilst i have little objection to the regeneration of our fair city, i have the following issues...

    1. There are far too many apartments in the docklands/city center areas already

    2. the current developments mainly take no account of the heritage and appearance of the old docks and as such are an eyesore...what the deuce are the apartments next to the cockle hole near Brunswick all about? And don't even get me started on the white apartments next to the Albert Dock!

    3. The quality of build and finish of the current developments (since the early 90's) is, quite frankly, rubbish and i would think that, especially around Brunswick dock with particularly salt and moisture rich air, re-re-development will be required within 20 years.

    4. Brunswick/Coburg/Waterloo and Wapping docks used to be great places to live. I lived in Coburg Wharf 15 years ago but moved when developers got hold of the land on either side of Brunswick, along the river front and adjacent to the cockle hole.
    The same is the case when i lived in Waterloo Warehouse.
    It's already too crowded simply because developers have seen the potential of selling 'a waterside lifestyle'.
    Whilst this is fine from a business perspective, Take a look at the docklands developments in The Isle of Dogs area of London...urban regeneration and abject poverty side-by-side...not a good combination.
    Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that people on the other side of Sefton Street live in poverty but there is definitely a divide.

    Regrowth is great, forgetting history and leaving people behind is not so.

    I left Liverpool 10 years ago, i visit from time to time and whilst i look at the recent growth with admiration, I'm left feeling slightly sad when i look around and see that lots of the areas and buildings which made Liverpool the city it is are fast dissapearing and the areas that really need attention are being left until last and possibly until it's too late.
    There is far worse in our society today than a lack of trendy living spaces in clique areas with bars, restaurants and gyms on every corner.

  23. #143
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoc View Post
    I remember the start of the re-development at Brunswick/Coburg docks. whilst i have little objection to the regeneration of our fair city, i have the following issues...

    1. There are far too many apartments in the docklands/city center areas already
    I disagree. The density should be greater to add vibrancy to the docks areas and centre. Hopefully that is coming.

    2. the current developments mainly take no account of the heritage and appearance of the old docks and as such are an eyesore...what the deuce are the apartments next to the cockle hole near Brunswick all about? And don't even get me started on the white apartments next to the Albert Dock!
    I agree. look at the link on my sig and go to the menu

    3. The quality of build and finish of the current developments (since the early 90's) is, quite frankly, rubbish and i would think that, especially around Brunswick dock with particularly salt and moisture rich air, re-re-development will be required within 20 years.
    That is so. However that might be a blessing disguise.

    4. Brunswick/Coburg/Waterloo and Wapping docks used to be great places to live. I lived in Coburg Wharf 15 years ago but moved when developers got hold of the land on either side of Brunswick, along the river front and adjacent to the cockle hole.
    The same is the case when i lived in Waterloo Warehouse.
    It's already too crowded simply because developers have seen the potential of selling 'a waterside lifestyle'.
    Developers want to fill the water spaces in to gain lucrative cheap land. There is nothing wrong with building around the docks quays, as long as the buildings are appropriate.

    Whilst this is fine from a business perspective, Take a look at the docklands developments in The Isle of Dogs area of London...urban regeneration and abject poverty side-by-side...not a good combination.
    Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that people on the other side of Sefton Street live in poverty but there is definitely a divide.
    There will be a class divide more than anything. The city can't be held up to preserve a working class image.

    Regrowth is great, forgetting history and leaving people behind is not so.
    Good point.

    I left Liverpool 10 years ago, i visit from time to time and whilst i look at the recent growth with admiration, I'm left feeling slightly sad when i look around and see that lots of the areas and buildings which made Liverpool the city it is are fast dissapearing and the areas that really need attention are being left until last and possibly until it's too late.
    There is far worse in our society today than a lack of trendy living spaces in clique areas with bars, restaurants and gyms on every corner.
    The city is very different to what it was 45 years ago. The city has always been in a state of re-construction. It is valuing what we have then designing, planning and constructing to high quality.

    The dock waterways should be built on to open up the river and water to the people and get the city based around the water. However it is how which is the question.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
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    how it once was?


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  24. #144
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    The demolition of South Brunswick Dock Sheds re-started recently. Yesterday the dock-facing shed wall was sliced in half, making the demolition visible from Sefton Street. For once, it's easy to get pics of a demolition site, as they don't have it surrounded by large security panels.

  25. #145
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Well what did we expect?
    Something eye catching?
    World renowned?
    Iconic?
    No. A few stumps. Disgusting.

    I hope the Labour party get in, in May, and tell Ollerton (was Maro) to resubmit the original 51 floor Brunswick Quay Tower, and Planning persimmon given pronto.



    Last edited by Waterways; 03-29-2008 at 12:45 AM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  26. #146
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    Police boat, Liverpool Marina. I only noticed this a couple of weeks ago. I haven't seen it moving around the Docks/River yet.


  27. #147
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    Yeah is to be used for search and recovery may also be used with customs as it has funky sonar equiptment that can see if anything is attached underneath a boat. I doubt it will be used much in the next 2 months as the lock gates can only be opened once a day due to the contractors not really finishing the job (not sure what the problem is now, but i know that when i went out racing the contractors had to pass over power cables in order to open the gates, i'll find out this sunday as we're racing again) and british waterways who project managed the whole thing so you can imadgine the mess it is in.

    The Mersey reggatta starts 28th and ends 29th of this month. 2 days 6 races and boats from all over the northwest. Should be good.

  28. #148
    Senior Member skgogosfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Well what did we expect?
    Something eye catching?
    World renowned?
    Iconic?
    No. A few stumps. Disgusting.

    I hope the Labour party get in, in May, and tell Ollerton (was Maro) to resubmit the original 51 floor Brunswick Quay Tower, and Planning persimmon given pronto.



    They look like those metal mesh waste bins the corpy used to have. What is that "feature" on the top anyway? Oh dear.

    Dave.

  29. #149
    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Something simular to this would of been good to build in Brunswick!



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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    I like that building. Different.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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