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Thread: Welsh community

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Default Welsh community

    What about the Welsh community ?

    The Welsh built many of our houses and had a notable influence on our city.
    There are still quite a few Welsh churches scattered around various districts.


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    Um, Hi! There is a Welsh community, very small group

    this is a discussion that raises it's head often in our family. The tiny remaining Welsh community in Liverpool appears to be a direct corrolation to the hords of people returning to Wales with Hiraeth (Belonging or home sickness)

    There doesn't seem to be much in the way of youth movement, not in the Universities or within the few remaining chapels.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I don't think the Welsh influence in Liverpool gets much attention.
    The focus has always been on Irish ancestry, maybe because the Irish were here in greater numbers perhaps. The Welsh did such a lot of building and many streets were built entirely by them. I think their presence in L'pool tends to get overlooked at times.

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    It doesn't do a lot to help itself. It's never gone out of it's way to promote the language or culture outside of Wales (it has a hard enough job inside of Wales I suppose)

    You never see Welsh themed pubs or Welsh products having a large scale advertising campaign (this recent high profie Magners Cider) adverts for instance.

    It has a lot of culture, and a massive diaspora to promote as well. It's one of the reasons it's such a shame some stuffy memebers of the Welsh Communiy faught so hard against having the 2007 Eisterfod in Liverpool, insted forcing it of Mold, Flintshire, a horribly cash strapped council.

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    Welsh Chapel, Garston:



    Thanks for creating this thread Fantastic info Wormella
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I think you are right Wormella. The Welsh community always kept quietly to themselves and there never has been any promotion of their culture.

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    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Wales is the home of King Calzaghe.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wormella
    It's one of the reasons it's such a shame some stuffy memebers of the Welsh Communiy faught so hard against having the 2007 Eisterfod in Liverpool, insted forcing it of Mold, Flintshire, a horribly cash strapped council.
    I think it was refered to as the 'Scousteddfod' at one point.

    Anyways....

    In 1813, one in ten people living in Liverpool was of Welsh origin, with many only able to speak Welsh.
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

    All server & domain costs are covered by myself & kind donations of individuals.

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    Thank you


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    Quote Originally Posted by kev
    Welsh Chapel, Garston:

    Thanks for creating this thread Fantastic info Wormella
    One of these days I might get orginised enough to make it to a service - it's just getting to the other side of town on a Sunday morning when I'm not in work that makes it a bit tricky.

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    Junior Member deb1's Avatar
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    Smile WALES

    HI
    I also would like to know why wales is not mentioned much? a lot of the streets are welsh names, bala street, bala is 40 min away from me,conway st,hoywell st, rhyl st.
    Im sure there are others as well but at the moment i am having a relapse with my ms so not thinkin too staight.
    Loads of people from liverpool come here on holiday my father in law is a scouser all his family still live in bootle, my kids think scousers are great well the ones they have met.
    So yes Wales should get mentioned more.
    If no one liked it here why come on holiday here?
    take care
    love deb1 proud welsh girl

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    ... and there's Powis st, Kinmel st, Gwydir st, Treborth. Maybe some more I've forgotten.

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    Gnomie
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    there is a bit of info here on the Scottie press site...


    http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/main.htm


    I know that one part of Vauxhall named the streets in a certain way so that the first letters of each street would spell out names. they where built by Welsh workmen and looking at the map of the streets side by side, the first letter of each one would spell out Owens or Jones etc. I will look through my books for it and post it up.

  13. #13
    Gnomie
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    OOPS sorry

    go to the link above. when in choose SEARCH from the left hand column.

    Then type in WELSH STREET NAMES. a few threads come up..

    Choose the first thread, most info there.

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    Gnomie
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Cheers Gnomie

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    I've found the Welsh streets thread.

    Very interesting.

    The Scottie Press web-site is great. I've looked into it a few times a while ago and each time I find something else new.

    Fascinating stuff in there.

    I've bookmarked it to read more in detail later.
    Last edited by lindylou; 07-05-2006 at 02:07 PM.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomie
    there is a bit of info here on the Scottie press site...

    http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/main.htm

    I know that one part of Vauxhall named the streets in a certain way so that the first letters of each street would spell out names. they where built by Welsh workmen and looking at the map of the streets side by side, the first letter of each one would spell out Owens or Jones etc. I will look through my books for it and post it up.
    The terraced House along Goodison Rd opposite Goodison Park spell out Ownes and Hargreaves, the builders.

    Masses of Toxteth were built by the Welsh, and hence the Welsh Streets with Welsh names. About 1/3 of all churches in Toxteth was a Welsh church.

    Far more Welsh settled in Liverpool than Irish – hence the highly Welsh influences in the Liverpool accent. The Irish make noises where they go and, unlike the Welsh.

    Outsiders think Liverpool is an Irish city on the English mainland for some reason. The Irish did have an influence but far from the most populous and most influential.

  18. #18
    Gnomie
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    Jeeeeeeeeshus. me lot is all Irish

    I agree waterways, not enough to mention the Welsh in this city

    I think the Welsh and Irish deserve a mention in the city, but where would it stop if we started mentioning everyone? theres way too many people settled here, the list would line the mersey


    I love these threads, great info being posted and so interesting learning the cultures. long may we keep discussing it

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

    I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
    we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.

    I have relatives in Maghull, and many of their neighbours are Polish. Three generations. The Poles settled during the war years and have brought up their families in Maghull.

  20. #20
    Gnomie
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    My friends grand parents are Spanish and came here in the 1930`s

    Lots of Polish here in vicyorian times as well as a big Italian community

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    Senior Member bobbymac's Avatar
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    Me granny, on me dad's side was Welsh. Named Jones, so she had to be. . Me dads side was Scottisg, they were ships carpenters, settled on (I think, Epy St. By Scotty rd. )It's not there now. Mothere's side were 'black Irish, from Armada times. Wott a bloody mix.

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    Junior Member J.C.S. III's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev
    I think it was refered to as the 'Scousteddfod' at one point.

    Anyways....

    In 1813, one in ten people living in Liverpool was of Welsh origin, with many only able to speak Welsh.

    Years ago, definitely up to the sixties, every Thursday was Welsh day. Which was the day people from Wales came over to Liverpool (via public transport usually) to spend the day, probably mainly shopping. T.J.Hughes and Owen Owens both two Welsh representations on the high street. I am not sure, but I think that Lewis' is also a Welsh company. The Welsh connection may have been more obvious in Liverpool previously, but with people owning their own cars and having more choice of shopping destinations, the tradition of Welsh day and other elements of the connection seem to have died off.

    Many people in Liverpool were evacuated to Wales. My Nan who was pregnant during WW2 and was living in the Pighue Lane area was sent to Prestatyn with my Aunty, and my Mum ended up being born there. So the Welsh have come in useful for us Scousers through the years! There are so many people who have Welsh relations and connections with Wales that it won't be forgotten, but is a shame when traditions, such as, Welsh day are lost.
    Last edited by J.C.S. III; 07-10-2006 at 09:28 PM.

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    Junior Member J.C.S. III's Avatar
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    Default Polish homes in Maghull

    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou
    Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

    I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
    we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.

    I have relatives in Maghull, and many of their neighbours are Polish. Three generations. The Poles settled during the war years and have brought up their families in Maghull.

    Yes, a lot of temporary housing was built for many, including The Polish. During the war people were evacuated out to Maghull, including refugees. Which seems really odd to me coming from Maghull, it is more built up now than back then, but seems so close to Bootle/Liverpool. Lots of people stayed to live here, but yes, the Polish presence that remained has been noted more than any other nationality. I am not sure if some of the properties were built with housing the Polish in mind.

    I noticed that there is also a Polish food store on Picton Road, may be there is a Polish community in that area???

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C.S. III
    I noticed that there is also a Polish food store on Picton Road, may be there is a Polish community in that area???
    Polish club/church in Alexandra Drive, off Ullet Rd L17. Spent many a night there.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou
    Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

    I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
    we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.
    A few of my friends have some Swedish in them. We found out looking though the records, one grt, grt or othet granddad married a Miss Lund (Norweigian name, as in Elsa Lund in Casablanca).

    The Scandinavian connection is greatly understated in Liverpool. My Dad said they were called Scanweigians.
    Last edited by Waterways; 07-11-2006 at 02:17 PM.

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    Senior Member Norm NZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Welsh people's move to Liverpool.

    Just thought i'd a a little light hearted aspect to this discussion! Both my wife and I have Welsh ancestry, and some years ago I decided to try and 'link them to my present family!! " What a job that turned out to be"!! with names such as, Jones, Hughes, Davies, and Roberts, I found I was constantly being confused and sidetracked to just about every town, village, or district in both Wales, and England!!! In the end I had to give it up! so I don't recomend the exercise to anyone!!

    Incidently, I learned that most of my Welsh ancesters moved (over a nomber of years) from North Wales to the Wirral area, then on to Garston, most probably a migration caused by the need to search for work. Probably the docks and it's related industries in Garston, Birkenhead and Liverpool provided this. "Cymru am Byth" and regards to all.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways
    A few of my friends whas some Swedish in them. We found out looking though the records, one grt, grt or othet granddad married a Miss Lund (Norweigian name, as in Elsa Lund in Casblanca).

    The Scandinavian connection is greatly understated in Liverpool. My Dad said they were called Scanweigians.
    hmmm, that's interesting. I didn't know Lund was a Norwegian name. The headmaster of Anfield jnr school is Mr Lund. Perhaps he's of Norwegian stock.

    Come to think of it LUND does sound Scandinavian.
    Last edited by lindylou; 07-11-2006 at 05:20 PM.

  28. #28
    FKoE
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    Scandiwegian Naval The general maritime slang name for a man or ship from Norway, Sweden or Denmark. Sometimes "Scowegian" or "Scandihoovian".
    Sco-wegian ?, Whys that ?




    http://www.britishempire.co.uk/glossary/s.htm



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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou
    hmmm, that's interesting. I didn't know Lund was a Norwegian name. The headmaster of Anfield jnr school is Mr Lund. Perhaps he's of Norwegian stock.
    We had a few named Lundstrum around the area. Many Anglicised their names. A local family was named Campos. The “s” was put on to hide the Spanish origins.

    Names ending in “berg”, would have the g turned to a “t”. So many names with “bert” at the end may have been originally German or Scandinavian. Many had the “berg” removed. Greenberg became Green. Same with “stein”. Burnstein became Burns, or Bernstein Became Berns. Etc, etc.
    Last edited by Waterways; 07-11-2006 at 03:51 PM.

  30. #30
    FKoE
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    Reminds me of that Iceberg joke .........

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