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Thread: Liverpool Scraps Tall Building Policy

  1. #16
    theninesisters
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    Nice one, do you work for Sony then?
    Aye, it's still my 'first' job as I came here when I left school when it used to be Psygnosis and now I'm Lead Development Assistant for the PS3. It's a cracking job but after 13 years it's just a job to me now!

    I've worked on a few games too!

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  2. #17
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Teardrop Explodes View Post
    I'm thinking you're being overly downcast about the situation here. I know the Brunswick objections were officially after the 'no talls' policy was scrapped but there were still a lot of lingering politics from that in the air...

    I think the situation's clarified since then somewhat. Bradley seems fairly clear about what these developments can do for the city, and I believe the Maro issue will only help concentrate minds for the future...
    If the tower doesn't get built then it will concentrate the minds of big and quality investors onto places elsewhere for ever.
    Last edited by Waterways; 12-06-2006 at 02:34 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  3. #18
    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    Decision about the Maro develpoment was crazy but as for architects not wanting to bother with the city iis not true. Rick Mather has designed the new John Moores arts building on site now where the old St Nick's building was. Daniel Libskind is designing the new eco domne thing if it goes ahead. Cesar Pelli Associates have designed te new hotel for Grosvenor. Apart from Willl Alsop and Ian Simpson, there have been no other notable architects whose designs have been knocked back. Architects who have entered design competitions and not won do not count as this is part and parcel of a large practices work.
    Now large scale changes and developments are happening, hopefully more developers will approach iconic architects to design for them! Id like Zaha Hadid to design something myself, something brave and iconixc. On the theme of her, the design she completed and won a competition with for Cardiff was knocked back because it was too radical so it is not just Liverpool who reject things. As for the likes of Leeds and Manchester, the developments in both cities are apart from being widespread, extremely boring. The only recent thing of note in Manchester is Ando's Piccadilly gardens design. IMHO of course.

  4. #19
    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    Sorry, Khon Pederson and fox sky scraper as well but I actually prefer the new unity scheme!

  5. #20
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christy View Post
    Decision about the Maro develpoment was crazy but as for architects not wanting to bother with the city iis not true. Rick Mather has designed the new John Moores arts building on site now where the old St Nick's building was. Daniel Libskind is designing the new eco domne thing if it goes ahead. Cesar Pelli Associates have designed te new hotel for Grosvenor. Apart from Willl Alsop and Ian Simpson, there have been no other notable architects whose designs have been knocked back.
    Norman Foster and the 4th Grace. If a Norman Foster has the choice of a top project elsewhere that they know will not have 10 floors lopped off and a 90% plus chance of being built they will go for that. Liverpool is a wild card and only if they have nothing on would they be bothered. It is noted as a dead loss city - oh that place.

    Architects who have entered design competitions and not won do not count as this is part and parcel of a large practices work.
    Now large scale changes and developments are happening, hopefully more developers will approach iconic architects to design for them! Id like Zaha Hadid to design something myself, something brave and iconixc. On the theme of her, the design she completed and won a competition with for Cardiff was knocked back because it was too radical so it is not just Liverpool who reject things. As for the likes of Leeds and Manchester, the developments in both cities are apart from being widespread, extremely boring. The only recent thing of note in Manchester is Ando's Piccadilly gardens design. IMHO of course.
    Leeds has some very nice designs on the way. Manchester is a glorified Croydon - off-the-shelf designs of little merit.

    It is mainly the developers, the money men, who will not be bothered with Liverpool after seeing what happend to Maro.
    Last edited by Waterways; 12-06-2006 at 02:38 PM.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  6. #21
    Senior Member SteH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Teardrop Explodes View Post
    I'm thinking you're being overly downcast about the situation here. I know the Brunswick objections were officially after the 'no talls' policy was scrapped but there were still a lot of lingering politics from that in the air...

    I think the situation's clarified since then somewhat. Bradley seems fairly clear about what these developments can do for the city, and I believe the Maro issue will only help concentrate minds for the future...
    I dont think Waterways is being downcast at all. There's been the Maro and Chieftan developments being thrown out, Central Station scheme being downgraded, Beetham West initially being knocked back, the list goes on and on. By the time developers eventually get to lay the first foundations they could be getting a rental return in other places.

  7. #22
    Goin' up up up The Teardrop Explodes's Avatar
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    ...but the fact is that 99.9% of developers schemes get the kb all over the world. I know we're all hungry and impatient for signs of the rebirth of this city but short-term disappointments are the nature of the beast I'm afraid. 'Rome wasn't built in a day''etc etc..



    Despite all that, the trajectory's ever higher for this place, our city's on the move. Exciting times for all those worldwide who follow and care about the fortunes of our unique city.

  8. #23
    Senior Member christy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Norman Foster and the 4th Grace. If a Norman Foster has the choice of a top project elsewhere that they know will not have 10 floors lopped off and a 90% plus chance of being built they will go for that. Liverpool is a wild card and only if they have nothing on would they be bothered. It is noted as a dead loss city - oh that place.

    It is mainly the developers, the money men, who will not be bothered with Liverpool after seeing what happend to Maro.
    Norman Foster didn't get knocked back, his design was one of the competition entries that lost the design competition - not the same as being knocked back as architectural practices enter competitions and lose all the time. The fact that Foster entered the competition surely says much more!

    I understand your point totally though, I just feel more positive about the situation and don't believe buildings getting the knock back for is a bad thing and as pointed out, this happens everywhere, world wide. I am glad in a way that the planners are being more choosy now and not just letting developments go ahead in the desperate way they did in the last decade, just because they thought if they objected the developers would move elsewhere or leave sites undeveloped (Queens square, Halifax building etc). There is however a balance to be struck and some decisions have unfortunately gone the wrong way such as Maro so hopefully they will now start to get things right. Liverpool is a very attractive place to develop aand invest in at present and money men will always go where they can make money and the money making opps for them in Liverpool at the mo is imense.
    Just hope now that the tall buildings policy has gone, some good quality high rise buildings will be allowed to be built without ridiculous objections but not at any cost and just because they are tall.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christy View Post
    Norman Foster didn't get knocked back, his design was one of the competition entries that lost the design competition - not the same as being knocked back as architectural practices enter competitions and lose all the time. The fact that Foster entered the competition surely says much more!

    I understand your point totally though, I just feel more positive about the situation and don't believe buildings getting the knock back for is a bad thing and as pointed out, this happens everywhere, world wide. I am glad in a way that the planners are being more choosy now and not just letting developments go ahead in the desperate way they did in the last decade, just because they thought if they objected the developers would move elsewhere or leave sites undeveloped (Queens square, Halifax building etc). There is however a balance to be struck and some decisions have unfortunately gone the wrong way such as Maro so hopefully they will now start to get things right. Liverpool is a very attractive place to develop aand invest in at present and money men will always go where they can make money and the money making opps for them in Liverpool at the mo is imense.
    Just hope now that the tall buildings policy has gone, some good quality high rise buildings will be allowed to be built without ridiculous objections but not at any cost and just because they are tall.
    Liverpool is regarded as a wild card. They see property prices rising because of WHS and Capital of Culture, then they sell. Liverpool came from a very low price base. The real big solid investments are in London, Edinburgh and to a lesser extent Manchester and Birmingham. The last two are a good investment as there is less hostility and they are welcoming.

    The post about tourism was an eye opener. Liverpool is supposed to be touted as a tourist destination, yet Manchester received more foreign and local visitors - can't see why myself as the city is bland, and I am being honest. This may change once Liverpool centre is not a huge construction site, the cruise line terminal is in place, something is done about Central Docks and CofC year is over. It does indicate that Liverpool has a very long way to go. Get it wrong now and it is with us for generations.

    Liverpool could strip all the rest with visitors if they got rid of the urban motorway through the centre (Dock Rd) making the city people friendly and developed the docks properly. The atraction is the water and the maritime history. The visitors want to see real ships, not just canal boats - the goons running the city can't see this.

    Maro is a local company, owned by a Liverpudlian. An external company would have walked with their millions a long time ago muttering stupid comments about the retarded locals. He may see it personally and will fight the fools ruining his city.
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    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    An external company would have walked with their millions a long time ago muttering stupid comments about the retarded locals.
    Odd? Arn't these your comments john? Retarded locals?
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  11. #26
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    Odd? Arn't these your comments john? Retarded locals?
    Look at it from their point of view.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  12. #27
    Aliens Ate My Buick. Bunnyman's Avatar
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    John, Re. the tourism thing. Does that also include overnight stays for people using the airports etc? That would artificially inflate the figures in Manchesters favour, as would the conference facilities, no. of hotel rooms, the arenas etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterways View Post
    Look at it from their point of view.
    John, mate, there's no evidence that this is their point of view. I find those words like retard offensive and I wouldn't like to go into detail on the forum as to my reasons why. anyway, moving on.............
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    John, mate, there's no evidence that this is their point of view. I find those words like retard offensive and I wouldn't like to go into detail on the forum as to my reasons why. anyway, moving on.............
    I am speaking generally not about Maro in particular. I would say the people running the city are retarded in many ways.
    The new Amsterdam at Liverpool?
    Save Liverpool Docks and Waterways - Click

    Deprived of its unique dockland waters Liverpool
    becomes a Venice without canals, just another city, no
    longer of special interest to anyone, least of all the
    tourist. Would we visit a modernised Venice of filled in
    canals to view its modern museum describing
    how it once was?


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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunnyman View Post
    John, Re. the tourism thing. Does that also include overnight stays for people using the airports etc? That would artificially inflate the figures in Manchesters favour, as would the conference facilities, no. of hotel rooms, the arenas etc.
    Right on! Manchester counts visitors by those who spend at least one night in that city. So, anyone from outside the city and travelling by air to, for example, North America, either from MAN or one of London's airports via MAN, will usually spend the night close to Manchester airport. Also, arriving overseas flights usually arrive in early morning after overnight flights and, again for many pax, will necessisate a stay in a Manchester hotel to mitigate the effects of jet-lag. I have missed, on a number of occasions and due to traffic conditions, early morning flights to NA and London from MAN so I now spend the night at a MAN hotel (Moat House) when flying home to NA. I am counted as a "Overseas tourist visitor" to that city. So, and always remember, "Figures dont lie but liars certainly figure" and that city up the hi-way is a past master at manipulating figures.
    Last edited by Sloyne; 12-08-2006 at 02:40 PM.

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