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Thread: Liverpool alleys and passage ways

  1. #61
    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    Is this up from Renshaw st,Joe?
    Off Berry Street,Steve


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    Nearly right!

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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregs dad View Post

    This is in the Beatle`s quarter.
    Hi Joe,
    wondered if you,(or Ged) knew anything of the history of a "gentlemans" club,that apparently existed,at the far,right, end of this alley,in the19th century? There were tales of various strange goings-on,by the members,but I can't remember where,or what I read it in,or even if it's the same building,which was recently a cafe!
    Thanks Steve

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    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    The above "club" had some sort of name like "Rotters"club,where members had to perform initiation challenges,and the like!I'm sure there were several well known local businessmen,and politicians,involved!

    P.S. I've just thought on,that it's name might have been the original "Bears Paw"?

  5. #65
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    It was the bears paw.
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    Updated weekly with old and new pics.

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    .
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  7. #67
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    This posting somehow repeated twice more.
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  8. #68
    Senior Member wsteve55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    It was the bears paw.
    Any info' on it Ged?

  9. #69
    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    Davies Street,off Dale Street
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    Great pic Joe. Nice and moody.

  11. #71
    Senior Member knowhowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteve55 View Post
    Hi all,
    does anyone here know when the use of the word WEINT,went out of use? Apparently, some of the alleyways,and small streets,down near the riverfront/town centre, were so named. i.e. Dawson's weint. These were still in existance in the 60's/70's!
    Thanks Steve.
    I found these interesting bits on a Neston website-

    http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshir...hy-Pykes-Weint

    "You write about Pyke's Weint in the news letter. I would like to know the meaning and origin of the word Weint and its relationship to Pyke's in Pyke's Weint. I have tried various reference books, all to no avail in the quest to find an answer. Your assistance or your readers, would be appreciated.
    Les Walker, Neston".

    The article below has just appeared in Neston Civic Society's Newsletter. It's a place to find out about Neston and the area! Membership is ?5 per household a year -contact is Janet Griffiths (janet.griffiths@nestoncivicsociety.org.uk or phone 0151 336 5478)

    "What?s a weint?
    In Neston we have Poplar Weint, a narrow path between Liverpool Road and Leighton Road, and Penningtons Weint, a passage from High Street to the Chester Road car park, between Goulbourne?s greengrocer and Phillip Bates Financial Services. In Parkgate we have Mealors Weint, a short road off the Parade.
    None of my dictionaries defines weint. An internet search (confused by the large number of songs in German about weeping!) shows that other places in the North West have a weint.

    In Cumbria, Ulverston propose to upgrade The Weint, a small yard linking Buxton Place Car Park to Ulverston town centre ? which sounds very like our Penningtons Weint. Great Urswick, also in Cumbria, has a long footpath called Weint Lane, which becomes a walled lane.

    In Liverpool, East of Georges Dock Basin, Prison Weint is an ancient passage off Water Street, and was formerly called Stringers-alley. Liverpool also has Ogden Weint, which is described as having been opened out so it was no longer an alley, but an open space. Gatacre has Grange Weint.

    In Wigan, The Weind used to be spelt Weint, and in 1825 three residents were listed.

    Rixton, Warrington, also has The Weint.

    Nearer home we have a Wiend in Rock Ferry, and another in Bebington. Is that the same word?

    I suppose weint is a synonym for alley, and perhaps some members of the Civic Society know the history of the word.

    Meanwhile it would be good to preserve the word. Maybe other alleys could be named. For example, a little alley leads from West Drive to a footpath along the old colliery railway branch line, and then to Old Quay Lane. A tiny alley joins Manorial Road South with Manorial Road North, and from there a little alley leads to the southern end of The Parade. As far as I know, none of these has a name. Neston is full of such alleys/ weints, and it would be good to have a map that showed them.

    In January 2009 Ellesmere Port and Neston Borough Council voted to improve Pennington?s Weint and Pyke?s Weint. Staff in Neston Town Hall didn?t know where Pyke?s Weint was, but helpfully got me a map. This shows in handwriting Pyke?s Weint running from High Street between Galen Pharmacy and the closed camera shop, which is used for vehicles part of the way, and then becomes a footpath to the Chester Road car park. So far, it has no sign, but I?ve suggested to the council that the improvements should include a sign.

    In Neston 1840 ? 1940 (published by Burton and South Wirral Local History Society 1996) p 142 says that the Wirral hundred court, sometimes called the Wirral Wapentake was held at Neston (then the largest township in Wirral) in a building at the northern corner of Pykes Weint from 1829 to 1853.

    Page 181 of Neston 1840 ? 1940 says that in1902 a woman and her two daughters were convicted of keeping a brothel in Pyke's Weint. These three were commemorated in a Neston rhyme: "Talk about Pyke's Weint, We have the best of any, We have got the best three girls, Et, Kit and Nelly."

    After I wrote this, I found that Clive Edwards wrote an article on Pennington?s Weint for the Neston Civic Society Newsletter no. 54, Autumn/ Winter 1997. His ancestors were Penningtons and he paid for the street name. He comments that the word weint appears around Newcastle-on-Tyne, and that it is a Scandinavian word".
    "Weint (alternative Waint) is defined in the 'Chambers Scots Dialect Dictionary' complied by Alexander Warrick, M A and originally published in 1911.

    There are a number of definitions including 'a moment', 'a transient sight', or 'the bend of a fishing line when not cast in one stretch'.

    With regard to the usage as in 'Pyke Weint', the definition of 'Weint' is either 'a narrow passage' or 'an alley'.
    Phil McGinty, Neston".

    So now we know.
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    Hi k',Thanks for the info'! The weint in gateacre is a modern development,but I dont know if this was an original name,or a developers novelty! Just seems odd,that the name disappeared,almost overnight!

  13. #73
    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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  14. #74
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    What a fabulous photograph, Joe. Could win a prize I think. Good work.

    C
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  16. #76
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    Thanks Joe for the views :-)

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    Senior Member Oddsocks's Avatar
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    I'm surprised this passageway hasn't been posted. Maybe it's on another thread. Just in case it hasn't been shown; It's the tunnel that connects James Street underground Station to Water Street.

    Many of you will remember running down it on the way to New Brighton, in a gang of course, shouting to get the maximum effect of the echo, because of the tiled walls. I've been hit on the head a few times with a rolled up Paper. This was usually accompanied with the words: "You noisy little B***ard"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #78
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    Thanks Oddsocks, I ahven't seen these views before

  19. #79
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    Default Liverpool alleys and passage ways

    A small alley leading to the walkway West Drive, on the old colliery branch line of the railroad and then the Old Quay Lane. A small alley with Manor Road Manor Road South with the North, and the small alley leading south end of the Parade.

  20. #80
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    My maternal grandfather used to call such little side streets "back cracks." Interestingly, one Liverpool pub, "Ye Cracke" -- famed as a haunt of the Beatles, poets, and art students, is on such a back crack, Rice Street, off Hope Street.

    Cheers

    Chris

    ---------- Post added at 02:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by knowhowe View Post
    I found these interesting bits on a Neston website-

    http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Cheshir...hy-Pykes-Weint

    "You write about Pyke's Weint in the news letter. I would like to know the meaning and origin of the word Weint and its relationship to Pyke's in Pyke's Weint. . . . "

    With regard to the usage as in 'Pyke Weint', the definition of 'Weint' is either 'a narrow passage' or 'an alley'.
    Phil McGinty, Neston".

    So now we know.
    Hello Pete

    Well, on reconsideration, I am not so sure about this, Pete. I think it might refer more to the winding nature of such passageways more than being a synonym for "narrow passage" or "alleyway."

    See here--

    "I do not see how we can connect the English substantive went with the well-known Celtic Derwents and Ventas (Welsh gweni). We should, however, compare such a name as Prison Weint, an ancient passage off Water Street, Liverpool, of which a few interesting particulars are given in Stonehouse's 'Streets of Liverpool' (1869), weint, like went, apparently being referable to A.-S. (ge)wind, 'winding way.' Hy. Harrison."

    In William White, Notes and Queries, Oxford University Press, 1901, p. 214, available on Google Books.

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    Ye Crack pub. Long before the John Lennon supped beer between lessons, it was surrounded by back alley courts.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    1848 OS [LRO].
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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    My maternal grandfather used to call such little side streets "back cracks."
    We still say it Chris it's an often used expression.
    Also, calling a small narrow alleyway a ginnel. (which I think is probably more of a Lancashire expression ?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
    My maternal grandfather used to call such little side streets "back cracks."
    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    We still say it Chris it's an often used expression.
    Also, calling a small narrow alleyway a ginnel. (which I think is probably more of a Lancashire expression ?).
    Thanks, Lindy. You probably still use the expression "jigger" for a back alley too, I suspect.

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    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    We just call it the entry.


    Ginnels are the very small narrow entries which you could touch both walls at arms width 'entries' are wider.

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    The 'back passage' is not used as much these days on account of its 'more tea vicar' connotations
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    We still say it Chris it's an often used expression.
    Also, calling a small narrow alleyway a ginnel. (which I think is probably more of a Lancashire expression ?).
    There are ginnels in Leeds, but no jiggers as far as I know. The O.E.D. suggests that ginnel may come from the French chenel = narrow passage. Jiggers were possibly named by association with what was alleged to take place in them, viz sexual activity, supposedly from jig-jig (African seamen's dialect).

  28. #88
    Senior Member gregs dad's Avatar
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    [IMG]old liverpool street by exacta2a, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]old liverpool street by exacta2a, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]old liverpool street by exacta2a, on Flickr[/IMG]

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doh View Post
    There are ginnels in Leeds, but no jiggers as far as I know. The O.E.D. suggests that ginnel may come from the French chenel = narrow passage. Jiggers were possibly named by association with what was alleged to take place in them, viz sexual activity, supposedly from jig-jig (African seamen's dialect).
    I like the York term of Snickelway....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snickelways_of_York

    ...with a link to a "ginnel" -

    "...and is a portmanteau of the words snicket, meaning a passageway between walls or fences, ginnel, a narrow passageway between or through buildings, and alleyway, a narrow street or lane..."

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    Senior Member Lizzie1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lindylou View Post
    We just call it the entry.
    Ginnels are the very small narrow entries which you could touch both walls at arms width 'entries' are wider.
    Never thought we'd need 'alley gates' on them! Times have changed!

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