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Thread: Liverpool's Irish Community

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Default Liverpool's Irish Community

    Tens of thousands of families came to Liverpool during the potato famine in the 1840's, and there is still a huge Irish community in the city.


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    Gnomie
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    My Family come from Dublin and Rosscommon


    Look at this......................


    http://www.historyplace.com/worldhis...ine/coffin.htm

    Irish Potato Famine

  3. #3
    Gnomie
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    Here.............

    Liverpool Irish

    http://www.merseyreporter.com/histor...igration.shtml















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    Gnomie
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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    I heard something about Old Swan yesterday, there was apparently a mass grave found with thousands and thousands of Irish dead bodies, murdered and blamed on the potato famine, Tom Slemen has something to do with this story I was told.

    Any info?
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    Gnomie
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    Liverpool. Monument at Hardman St. More than a million Irish arrived in Liverpool during the Great Hunger, many moved on to America and other places, but many settled here as well. Some who stayed did not do so by choice. In 1847 alone, more than 7,000 paupers were buried in mass graves here.


    Liverpool Great Hunger Monument

    Last edited by Gnomie; 04-14-2006 at 03:36 PM.

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    Gnomie
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev
    I heard something about Old Swan yesterday, there was apparently a mass grave found with thousands and thousands of Irish dead bodies, murdered and blamed on the potato famine, Tom Slemen has something to do with this story I was told.

    Any info?

    http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwor...name_page.html


    Here you are Kev

  8. #8
    Gnomie
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    My Cousin is getting married in the summer in Liverpool to a guy from Dublin. They have a house in Dublin now and she will settle there after the wedding. At the mo she flies over every weekend.

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    Member gillian's Avatar
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    Default Irish

    Thanks to Liverpool's Irish history,when the bombings were at there hight,Liverpool was untouched.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    IRA denounces 'criminals activities'
    Apr 13 2006

    The IRA has distanced itself from "former republicans who have embraced criminal activity".

    In its annual Easter statement, the organisation said it had no responsibility for the tiny number of former republicans involved in criminality for self gain.

    "We repudiate this activity and denounce those involved," the Provisionals said.

    As republicans prepared to mark the 90th anniversary of the 1916 Easter Rising, the IRA again insisted it was committed to the peace process.

    "The leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann (IRA) believes that it is possible to achieve the republican goal of a united Ireland through the alternative route of purely peaceful and democratic means," the statement said.

    Following last week's move by Prime Minister Tony Blair and Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern to give Northern Ireland Assembly members an absolute deadline of November 24 for the formation of the power-sharing government, the Provisionals said there was frustration and anger at the position adopted by the governments in London and Dublin over the last year.

    The statement continued: "However, in our view, the will of the people is to see advances in the political process.

    "The onus is on the two governments and the political parties to ensure that this happens. The Irish Government, in particular, has a duty to see beyond the current phase of the process.

    "Its responsibility is to promote an end to partition and to create the conditions for the unity and independence of Ireland.

    "The IRA is fully committed to the ideals and principles of the Proclamation of Easter 1916. We urge maximum unity in the time ahead."

    Source: icLiverpool

  11. #11
    FKoE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomie
    My Family come from Dublin and Rosscommon

    Mine are from Cork 1841/2 , and Belfast 1938

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Default HONOR JAMES CONNOLLY AND EASTER, 1916

    THIS MONTH MARKS THE 90TH ANNIVERSAY OF THE IRISH UPRISING. HONOR JAMES CONNOLLY AND THE OTHER IRISH LIBERATION FIGHTERS.



    ALL HONOR TO THE MEMORY OF JAMES CONNOLLY, COMMANDANT- IRISH CITIZEN ARMY- EXECUTED BY THE BLOODY BRITISH IMPERIALISTS MAY, 1916. ALL HONOR TO THE MEMORY OF BOBBY SANDS, MP AND THE 10 MARTYRED LONG KESH HUNGER STRIKERS. ALL HONOR TO THE MEMORY OF THE 90th ANNIVERSARY OF THE EASTER UPRISING, 1916. BRITISH TROOPS OUT OF IRELAND TODAY (AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT OUT OF IRAQ).

    A word. They tell a story about James Connolly that just before the start of action in Easter, 1916 he told the members of the Irish Citizen’s Army (almost exclusively workers, by the way) that if the uprising was successful to keep their guns handy. More work with them might be necessary against the nationalist allies of the moment organized as the Irish Volunteers. The Volunteers were mainly a petty bourgeois formation and had no intention of fighting for a Socialist Republic. True story or not, I think that gives a pretty good example of the strategy and tactics to be used in colonial and third world struggles by the working class. Would that the Chinese Communists in the 1920’s and other colonial and third world liberation fighters since then had paid heed to that strategic concept.

    James Connolly, June 5, 1868-May 12, 1916, was of Scottish Irish stock. He was born in Edinburgh of immigrant parents. The explicit English colonial policy which created the Irish diaspora produced many such immigrants from benighted Ireland to England, America, Australia and the far flung parts of the world. Many of these immigrants left Ireland under compulsion of banishment. Deportation was a standard English response in the history of the various “Troubles’ from Cromwell’s time on.

    Connolly, like many another Irish lad left school for a working life at age 11. The international working class has produced many such self-taught and motivated leaders. Despite the lack of formal education he became one of the preeminent left-wing theorists of his day in the pre- World War I international labor movement. In the class struggle we do not ask for diplomas, although they help, but commitment to the cause of the laboring masses. Again, like many an Irish lad Connolly joined the British Army, at the age of 14. In those days the British Army provided one of the few ways of advancement for an Irishman who had some abilities. As fate would have it he was stationed in Dublin. I believe the English must ruse the day they let Brother Connolly near weapons and near Dublin. As a phrase in an old Irish song goes- ‘ Won’t Old Mother England be Surprised’.

    By 1892 Connolly was an important figure in the Scottish Socialist Federation which, by the way, tended to be more militant and more Celtic and less enamored of parliamentarianism than its English counterpart. The failure to gather in the radical Celtic elements was a contributing factor to the early British Communist Party’s sterility. Most of the great labor struggles of the period cam from the leadership in Scotland and Ireland. Connolly became the secretary of the Federation in 1895. In 1896 he left the army and established the Irish Socialist Republican Party. The name itself tells the program. Ireland at that time was essentially a classic English colony so to take the name Republican was to spit in the eye of the English. Even today the English have not been able to rise to the political level of a republic. Despite Cromwell’s valiant attempt and no thanks to today's British Labor Party’s policies this is still sadly the case. All militants can and must support this call- Abolish the monarchy, House of Lords and the state Church of England.

    In England Connolly was active in the Socialist Labor Party that split from the moribund, above-mentioned Social Democratic Federation in 1903. During the period before the Easter uprising he was heavily involved in the Irish labor movement and acted as the right hand man to James Larkin in the Irish Transport and General Workers Union. In 1913 when Larkin led a huge strike in Dublin but was forced to leave due to English reprisals Connolly took over. It was at that time that Connolly founded the Irish Citizens Army as a defense organization of armed and trained laboring men against the brutality of the dreaded Dublin Metropolitan Police. Although only numbering about 250 men at the time their political goal also became to establish an independent and socialist Ireland.
    Connolly stood aloof from the leadership of the Irish Volunteers, the nationalist formation based on the middle classes. He considered them too bourgeois and unconcerned with Ireland's economic independence. In 1916 thinking they 'were merely posturing, and unwilling to take decisive action against England, he attempted to goad them into action by threatening to send his Irish Citizens Army against the British Empire alone, if necessary. This alarmed the members of the more militant Irish Republican Brotherhood, who had already infiltrated the Volunteers and had plans for an insurrection as well. In order to talk Connolly out of any such action, the IRB leaders, including Tom Clarke and Patrick Pearse, met with Connolly to see if an agreement could be reached. During the meeting the IRB and the ICA agreed to act together at Easter of that year.
    When the Easter Rising occurred on April 24, 1916, Connolly was Commandant of the Dublin Brigade, and as the Dublin brigade had the most substantial role in the rising, he was dc facto Commander in Chief. Following the surrender he was executed by the British for his role in the uprising. Although he was so badly injured in the fighting that he was unable to stand for his execution he was shot sitting in a chair. The Western labor movement, to its detriment no longer produces enough such militants as Connolly (and Larkin, for that matter). Learn more about this important socialist thinker and fighter. ALL HONOR TO HIS MEMORY.

    A word on the Easter Uprising. The easy part of analyzing the Uprising is the knowledge, in retrospect, that it was not widely supported by people in Ireland and militarily defeated by the British forces send in main force to crush it and therefore doomed to failure. Still easier is to criticize the strategy and tactics of the action and of the various actors, particularly in underestimating the British Empire’s frenzy to crush any opposition to its main task of victory in World War I. Although, I think that would be a point in the uprising’s favor under the theory that England’s (or fill in the blank) woes were Ireland’s (or fill in the blank) opportunities. The hard part is to draw any positive lessons of that national liberation experience for the future. If nothing else remember this though, and unfortunately the Irish national liberation fighters (and other national liberation fighters later, including later Irish revolutionaries) failed to take this into account in their military calculations, the British (or fill in the blank) were entirely committed to defeating the uprising including burning that colonial country to the ground if need be in order to maintain control. In the final analysis, it was not their metropolitan homeland, so the hell with it. Needless to say, British Labor’s position was almost a carbon copy of His Imperial Majesty’s. Labor leader Arthur Henderson could barely contain himself when informed that James Connolly had been executed. That should, even today, make every British militant blush with shame. Unfortunately, the demand for British militants and others today is the same as then- All British Troops Out of Ireland.

    In various readings I have come across a theory that the Uprising was the first socialist revolution in Europe, predating the Bolshevik Revolution by over a year. Unfortunately, there is little truth to that idea. Of the Uprising’s leaders, only James Connolly was devoted to the socialist cause. Moreover, while the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army were prototypical models for urban- led national liberation forces such organizations, as we have witnessed in later history, are not inherently socialistic. The dominant mood among the leadership was in favor of political independence and/or fighting for a return to a separate traditional Irish cultural hegemony. Let poets rule the land. As outlined in the famous Proclamation of the Republic posted on the General Post Office in Dublin, Easter Monday, 1916 the goal of the leadership appeared to be something on the order of a society like those fought for in the European Revolutions of 1848, a left bourgeois republic. Some formation on the order of the Paris Commune of 1871 or the Soviet Commune of 1917 did not figure in the political calculations at that time.

    As noted above, James Connolly clearly was skeptical of his erstwhile comrades on the subject of the nature of the future state and apparently was prepared for an ensuing class struggle following the establishment of a republic. That does not mean that revolutionary socialists could not support such an uprising. On the contrary, Lenin, who was an admirer of Connolly for his anti-war stance in World War I, and Trotsky stoutly defended the uprising against those who derided the Easter Rising for involving bourgeois elements. Participation by bourgeois and petty bourgeois elements is in the nature of a national liberation struggle. The key, which must be learned by militants today is who leads the national liberation struggle and on what program. As both Lenin and Trotsky made clear later in their own revolutionary experiences in Russia revolutionary socialists have to lead other disaffected elements of society to overthrow the existing order. There is no other way in a heterogeneous class-divided society. Moreover, in Ireland, the anti-imperialist nature of the action against British imperialism during wartime on the socialist principle that the defeat of your own imperialist overlord, as a way to open the road to the struggle merited support on that basis. Chocky Ar La.


    FOR MORE POLITICAL COMMENTARY AND BOOKS REVIEWS CHECK MY BLOG AT- http://markinbookreview.blogspot.com/



    MARKIN



    Source: Liverpool Indymedia

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    Member Scousemouse's Avatar
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    Default An alternative version?

    The Irish first headed for Liverpool, a city with a pre-famine population of about 250,000, many of whom were unskilled laborers. During the first wave of famine emigration, from January to June of 1847, an estimated 300,000 destitute Irish arrived in Liverpool, overwhelming the city. The financial burden of feeding the Irish every day soon brought the city to the brink of ruin. Sections of the city featuring cheap lodging houses became jammed. Overflow crowds moved into musty cellars, condemned and abandoned buildings, or anywhere they could just lie down. Amid these densely packed, unsanitary conditions, typhus once again reared its ugly head and an epidemic followed, accompanied by an outbreak of dysentery.

    The cheap lodging houses were also used by scores of Irish waiting to embark on ships heading for North America. Three out of four Irish sailing for North America departed from the seaport at Liverpool. Normally they had to sleep over for a night or two until their ship was ready to sail. Many of these emigrants contracted typhus in the rundown, lice-infested lodging houses, then boarded ships, only to spend weeks suffering from burning fever out at sea.

    On June 21, 1847, the British government, intending to aid besieged Liverpool, passed a tough new law allowing local authorities to deport homeless Irish back to Ireland. Within days, the first boatloads of paupers were being returned to Dublin and Cork, then abandoned on the docks. Orders for removal were issued by the hundreds. About 15,000 Irish were dragged out of filthy cellars and lodging houses and sent home even if they were ill with fever.

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldhis...ine/coffin.htm

    A recommended read... but I reckon it won't make the Merseymart!
    Ermine tastes much the same as sackcloth when there's nothing left to eat.

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    Member Tony Sebo's Avatar
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    There is so much to celebrate about the irish shaping Liverpool, its culture and soul... where is it on this thread?

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    Considering that the Irish community has given so much to Liverpool wouldn't it be nice to commemorate this with a statue on Scotland Road?

    Everyone can see how this road has fallen into ruins over the years with the 60's clearances etc.A statue in the middle of the road with the junction with Stanley Road would improve the area.

    Many European cities have statues everywhere, if Liverpool is to be a capital of culture then I think that this would be nice.

  16. #16
    FKoE
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    Its right........we had an Irish community.........

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    Senior Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Many European cities have statues everywhere, if Liverpool is to be a capital of culture then I think that this would be nice.
    I've heard only Westminster in London has more statues and sculptures than Liverpool so we don't do so badly really.

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    Oh right I didn't know that.

    It would still be a good thing to see the Scotland Road area improved as this is one of the main entrances to the city. Not just a case of planting trees though as the area has plenty and they don't mask the decline.

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    FKoE
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    What do you suggest we do to address the decline ?

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    Well I believe that there is a project underway to build a new supermarket on one side that will improve the look of the road.

    Also it would take very little money to actually demolish some of the delapidated buildings such as pubs.

    Then I would suggest the area needs to be opened up to the private sector.
    The council has demolished loads of flats in the last 5 years in the Stanley Road area why not sell the land to private developers who could build affordable apartments. that would then increase the local population and begin the recovery of the local economy which in Everton is one of the worst in the country.
    The council could also improve the look of the place by a couple of public art projects.

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    Senior Member Waterways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban
    Considering that the Irish community has given so much to Liverpool wouldn't it be nice to commemorate this with a statue on Scotland Road?
    I can think of better ways of spending public money than on a statue that will be vandalised.

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    Junior Member bustcapl's Avatar
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    born i cork in 1979... moved to england when i was 8 moved to Liverpool when i was 18... i think one of the main reasons that i love liverpool so much is beacause it retains its sens of irishness!!!

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustcapl
    born i cork in 1979... moved to england when i was 8 moved to Liverpool when i was 18... i think one of the main reasons that i love liverpool so much is beacause it retains its sens of irishness!!!
    a big scouse/oirish welcome to ya bustcapl!!
    Liverpool in Pictures/ YO! Liverpool has taken me over 10 years to develop and maintain.

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    Junior Member bustcapl's Avatar
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    cheers kev... i did meet you on the tour of gorvesnor site visit... you put together a good forum here kidda.. keep up the good work

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustcapl
    cheers kev... i did meet you on the tour of gorvesnor site visit... you put together a good forum here kidda.. keep up the good work
    Cheers mate.
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    How have some of you found this stuff out about your families? I wish I knew about mine! I know (like most of merseyside!) I have some Irish in me, my nans mother moved to Liverpool from some small town outside dublin when she was a kid so I suppose it would have been due to the famine. I think I could have some very very distant German aswell. How can I find this stuff out?!

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    i must be the only scouser with out an irish connection
    Don't believe everything you hear..... Just everything you say.

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    Senior Member Howie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peewak View Post
    i must

    be the only scouser with out an irish connection
    You're not alone, one side of my family is English the other Scottish - no Irish ancestry as far

    as I'm aware. The only connection I have to Ireland is distilled by Jamesons.

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    Creator & Administrator Kev's Avatar
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    My great grandad, Irish
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