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Thread: City Boundary Signs - Backfire

  1. #16
    Gerard
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    So the Bottom of Scottie Road is in Everton Eh..Mmmm !!!


  2. #17
    Otterspool Onomatopoeia Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    A SCHEME to put traditional signs at the boundaries of Liverpool's oldest communities has backfired - leaving families in one upmarket area demading their removal.

    Residents in Riverside Drive complained after signs declaring it to be in Dingle, Toxteth and Aigburth were put up within a mile of each other.

    Residents on the new estates, created on the site of the International Garden Festival, had demanded the signs should be taken now and re-located.

    But council leaders say they have decided against removing the signs until the geographical conundrum is resolved, despite protests that the sign for Dingle is "not even in Dingle".

    Last night, Cllr Peter Allen, of St Michael's ward, insisted the signs had not been correctly positioned.

    He said: "These signs are absolute nonsense, there's not much point in having signs in the wrong place. I'm annoyed with the officers and, obviously, I'd prefer it if the signs were removed."

    Mark Smith, the council's highways and environment officer, said: "We did conduct a wide consultation before the signs were erected and we think they are correctly placed.

    "However, we are aware there are still outstanding issues. The signs are not absolutely set in stone and we are happy to listen to the public to get it right."

    The council's executive board has decided to listen to councillors' concerns about all disputed signs throughout Liverpool, but in the meantime the board declined to remove the offending markers for the Aigburth and Dingle areas.

    Cllr John Coyne, who also represents St Michael's ward, said: "The promise by the executive board is less than we hoped for, but we will work with the review as best we can."

    Andrea Spyropoulos, chairwoman of the Riverside Action Group, said residents were upset their area had been wrongly signposted.

    She said: "It was quite a shock when they put the signs up. Your postcode determines how much tax you pay and the postcode in Dingle is L3, whereas here is L17.

    "It's not because of snobbery, my sister lives in the Dingle and she doesn't consider her area to be Riverside either. It wouldn't harm anybody to change the signs."

    Ms Spyropoulos was also concerned the signs would make visitors lose their way.

    She said: "I have a terrible sense of direction and if I didn't know the area I'd be confused. We heard nothing about the signs before they went up, but if we had we would have told the council to put them in more sensible places."

    The three disputed signs, all located in St Michael's ward, were put up as part of the council's scheme to mark Liverpool's different districts.

    However, there is little documentation of Dingle's historical boundary so the sites were chosen on the advice of Joseph Rourke, a member of Highways Management and local historian.
    Isn't Otterspool an area? Part of that Garden Festival area has a Dingle Esplanade.
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  3. #18
    Roving Arriva Bus User! wallasey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    So the Bottom of Scottie Road is in Everton Eh..Mmmm !!!

    That is one of the signs which gets contradicted when travelling down County Road as there is one which says "Kirkdale". You never see one for Everton though!

    Actually, although this may sound daft, which district is Scottie and Great Homer Street in? I am planning on updating Flickr with some images but I don't want to write the wrong district! In the past I have said that Scottie is in Vauxhall (as that is what Scottie Press says on their website) but that isn't strictly a reconised district is it? I have a rather dated map claiming that Westmister Road is in "Melrose" and that Hall Lane is in Smithdown.

    Toxteth doesn't even get a mention as it is slit between Abercromby, Granby , Arundel and possibly even Aigburth depending on whatyou think is Aigburth and what you think is Toxteth.

    Have taken photos but if you can wait untill Friday, I can get some proper scans! It's not a A-Z but a Official Liverpool Street Plan from 1986!
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  4. #19
    Gerard
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallasey View Post
    That is one of the signs which gets contradicted when travelling down County Road as there is one which says "Kirkdale". You never see one for Everton though!

    Actually, although this may sound daft, which district is Scottie and Great Homer Street in? I am planning on updating Flickr with some images but I don't want to write the wrong district! In the past I have said that Scottie is in Vauxhall (as that is what Scottie Press says on their website) but that isn't strictly a reconised district is it? I have a rather dated map claiming that Westmister Road is in "Melrose" and that Hall Lane is in Smithdown.

    Toxteth doesn't even get a mention as it is slit between Abercromby, Granby , Arundel and possibly even Aigburth depending on whatyou think is Aigburth and what you think is Toxteth.

    Have taken photos but if you can wait untill Friday, I can get some proper scans! It's not a A-Z but a Official Liverpool Street Plan from 1986!

    My own opinion Wallasey is that Gt Homer St is in the Vauxhall District along with Scottie Rd,Im not having it that the bottom of Scottie Rd is in Everton.
    Last edited by Gerard; 02-21-2007 at 07:41 PM.

  5. #20
    Senior Member steveb's Avatar
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    Yes strange the weay places move overnight.

    Have a look here



    http://www.british-history.ac.uk/sou...no=1&pubid=289

  6. #21
    Roving Arriva Bus User! wallasey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    My own opinion Wallasey is that Gt Homer St is in the Vauxhall District along with Scottie Rd,Im not having it that the bottom of Scottie Rd is in Everton.
    Just noticed after going through me 100 odd images of the "Vauxhall" area that on the corner of Stanley Road and Lambeth Road, there is a sign saying "Everton" going city bound! That is strange!



    To be honest, I wouldn't have said that Everton extended below Netherfield Road but that's just me.

    Thanks for your info as to where Great Homer Street is; you might have noticed I had some trouble over on the Aigburth thread so I ma now somewhat weary of saying that a road is in one place when infact it is in another!

    EDIT: Just a quickie! Where is the boundary between Vauxhall and Kirkdale? I am starting to write images for Westminister Road you see!
    Last edited by wallasey; 02-22-2007 at 01:04 AM.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member marky's Avatar
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    Dacre St.
    This marks the divide between Liverpool (Kirkdale) and Sefton (Bootle) along the 'dock road'. An oldish sign, that seems to have escaped being replaced.
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  8. #23
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Everton Boundaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard View Post
    My own opinion Wallasey is that Gt Homer St is in the Vauxhall District along with Scottie Rd,Im not having it that the bottom of Scottie Rd is in Everton.
    This is the same problem as the Toxteth and Wavertree boundaries that have come up on this forum. Everton was originally a township in the parish of Walton on the Hill. As such its boundaries have been defined for a very long time. With the urbanisation of the area from the late 18th C onwards, these boundaries became blurred and new subdistricts developed. I'll have to look up my old maps to relate Everton township's boundaries to present day streets. One source of confusion miight be that the old council Everton ward boundaries extended beyond the Everton township boundaries. This is what happened in Toxteth Park where the Dingle ward extended way beyond the area of the Dingle itself which really started at the bottom of Park Rd near the Ancient Chapel of Toxteth. Hence also the street name Dingle Mount which implies it was above the Dingle.

  9. #24
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    I would say that Gerard is right that there's no way that the bottom or even the top end of Scottie is in Everton. I'd also say Wallasey is correct in that Everton doesn't extend any further West than Netherfield Road. Where that Everton sign is by the Stanley chippy, locals would say it is still Kirkdale because Boundary street was the old boundary with Kirkdale.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member taffy's Avatar
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    Default Everton Boudaries & Gt Homer St

    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    I would say that Gerard is right that there's no way that the bottom or even the top end of Scottie is in Everton. I'd also say Wallasey is correct in that Everton doesn't extend any further West than Netherfield Road. Where that Everton sign is by the Stanley chippy, locals would say it is still Kirkdale because Boundary street was the old boundary with Kirkdale.
    I've just had a look at my township boundary maps for the Everton area. The original township boundaries in the Gt Homer st area were field boundaries. These were not in a straight line and hovered back and fro across what became Gt Homer St. ( see Gage's 1836 map) Indeed one part of Gt Homer St itself was called Boundary St at one time. With the continued urbanisation of the area, Gt Homer St itself became the Everton Boundary with Liverpool.

    So yes Scotland Rd was not in the township of Everton. Interestingly though in the 1850s the area north of the present Boundary St was classed as Everton Ward. The area to the south was called Scotland Ward. As the population grew, these ward names changed

  11. #26
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Good stuff Taffy.
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