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Thread: Was it a success

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    paddy Paddy's Avatar
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    Question Was it a success

    The Capital of Culture draws to an end. What are your thoughts? Was it a success did you play an active part? Has it made you more European? Has Liverpool promoted itself as a City of outstanding artistic talent and creativity? Well some might have a cynical slant and others may have conceived it to be something completely different, and if you like have taken a minority interest perspective. Then there is the time warp of popular culture that fixes us permanently in a Beatle culture and show biz cocoon. I personally think that we should encourage the new generation of scousers to believe that they too can create a Liverpool scene totally new and their own. Was it a success in my eyes? Well I visited a few times and I never cried it down. I think the fast pace of change can alienate people and this years experience helps people to realize that. What is a scouser? If you love the city then you take an interest in what is happening. Liverpool is a unique City as we all know and with the limited resources we have to we make the best of it. I went to the Walker and the Museums every time I came, I always do that anyway. Early on in the year I saw a bloke with his lad walking around the Museum and I thought to myself that he was doing the right thing as a good Father. I know many more family orientated people took their kids around and got involved and that is what it was all about. Some people were critical of the council but that is part and parcel of political Culture and to be expected. Well in the coming months there will be a review of the events and also a lot of feedback that I will follow with interest. I think it was worthwhile and gave people a chance to reflect not only on the past but on the future of Liverpool.


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    I think 2008 along with 2007 [800th birthday] have been huge and its surely unprecedented for any UK city to have had so much in such a small space of time.

    For me, I haven't measured success upon how it effected places away from the city center, I know there have been issues engaging people on a local level. If I have wanted to have been involved in something, I've took myself off to it, rather than waiting for it to filter down.

    What interests/ed me have been the millions of extra 'new' visitors to the city who previously would have had that barrier of 'poor Liverpool/scouse stereotypes' in front of them before. Couple that with more frequent visitors from the wider region, Warrington, Wirral, North Wales etc and you have yourself a city in the local and wider media again for the right reasons.

    People are more confident to talk Liverpool and its people 'up' in a variety of social circles these days which is great!

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    It was a sucess but a little overrated.

    Not enough events stood out and most events we had annually anyway. La Machine, MTV Awards, the lambananas dotted around and others like the opening ceremony were only few that you could consider capital of culture.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Default The times they are a changin!

    I see where you?re coming from Kev. The financial reward is important to the City. I had the misfortune of coming up against some very dark and cynical voices on the Echo forum. Thankfully that is over. All Cities are multicultural that is the reality of City life. I think the Chinese Olympics gave this new century a reality check too. What for me is the real benefit of 2008 for Liverpool is the idea of real regeneration. With the economic gloom of the past two months that might appear to be over optimistic. Yet if you consider the geographical factor that the City is not the busy Atlantic port it once was then you can see the need for innovative planning. The City has to respond to the changes. The point about Liverpool becoming a shopping center and cultural centre for the wider Merseyside community is also of interest and very welcome. I think the label of down trodden scousers has been a millstone around us. The year brought about a sense of social cohesion for the City. I don?t doubt that the arguments about what Culture is will go on. Visiting the town centre myself I noticed that the general attitude was that Liverpool is a place of interest. Sometimes you might feel that we could think bigger. Yet the consideration that as a port we have lost the trade routes has to be taken. I remember being in the playground of Saint Joan of Arc Bootle during the seaman?s strike of the sixties. The Mersey was clogged up with ships, all you could see was funnels of the different shipping lines. Well that?s gone and the majority of trade now is cross channel. I personally would like to see a reemergence of Atlantic shipping or at least an increase. That might still happen as the economic union of Europe is slightly unpredictable and the presence of three major ports on the periphery is something that might be utilized in coming years. All in all the year has to be seen as of benefit to the City.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Question Well was it a Success

    Source Liverpool echo.

    A debate on the effects Liverpool's year as Capital of Culture has had on the city will be led by Culture Secretary Andy Burnham.

    Experts will also discuss the issues raised in a recent research project set up to evaluate the social, cultural, economic and environmental impact.

    Research found 75% of new visitors to Liverpool were influenced by the fact it was culture capital for the year.

    The debate is being held at the University of Liverpool later.

    Deputy Chair of the Culture Company, Phil Redmond, will also attend, along with Chief Executive of Arts Council England, Alan Davey, University of Liverpool Pro-Vice-Chancellor and author of Liverpool 800, Professor John Belchem and Director of Impacts 08 research project, Dr Beatriz Garcia.

    'Future progress'

    Impacts 08 was a joint project between the University of Liverpool and Liverpool John Moores University.

    It found that many of the landmark Capital of Culture events brought in millions of pounds to the city's economy.

    The Tall Ships event, held in July, brought in ?8.2m, and the Liverpool Sound Paul McCartney concert brought in ?5m.

    Vice-Chancellor, Professor Sir Howard Newby, said: "The university has played a major role in the city's cultural programme throughout 2008 and we will continue to support the city in its development."

    He added: "Liverpool's year as Capital of Culture generated great energy and excitement in and around the city and we hope this will be sustained as we look forward to 2009."

    Well thats the official debate and other perspectives will be offered I think we can all look back now and think about 08 in a more relaxed way.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Member Ron B Manderson's Avatar
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    Default was it worth it ?

    Now before the blades come out let me finish before you send the heavies in.
    Whe I first went to Liverpool I was warned about all the tea leaves & the liverpool scallies.
    I did notice that litter was one of the biggest drawbacks in the city.
    As I have said before there is great buildingd there , and the locals never look up and see them.
    Driving along the east lancs I saw a white wall. Wrong it was a fence covered in litter. People stop their cars and dumped rubbish in black bags on the central res. I could not beleave it.
    I have heard the locals saying "ALBERT DOCK" waste of money. They say"it's for the rich not us" money does make you rich self esstem and pride do that better. How wrong can they be .Bus load of people come from all over the countryto visit the dock.
    To me that put liverpool in it's place. Dirty gang of thugs. why should we care. etc. But that was yesteryear. Now the albert dock Cof c and liverpool one has put new life into the people. They are now proud of their city.
    I married a liverpool lass from Ermine street, and was married in walton Church.in 1970
    Yes there is still the baddies , but the people have pride now .
    I say good on yea liverpool people and don't let them baddies drag you down.
    And so they should be proud. But please you have been given a good start to 2009 lets see it kept up. It's only the people themself that can do it.
    Yes it brought cash in, but more important it brought pride.I think pride is more important than cash.
    good luck
    Ron
    Last edited by Ron B Manderson; 01-07-2009 at 12:53 PM.

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    Brought cash In but what has benifited outside the city centre? Alot of areas near me look like Afganistan but with poorly paved roads, theres even a welcome to Baghdad stencil on a Smithdown Road wall opposite the cemetry. Hopefully some much needed regeneration will still happen and It gets maintained this time.

    Most of the regeneration was started too late and too much In one go and tourists were subjcted to seeing alot of this also which was not good.

    Liverpool has had regenerative schemes before and projects but have voted In poor councils like the current lib dems. Then theres council estate chavs(not to demean people who live In them, there are decent people as well, I just need a name to describe who I'm talking about.) who don't give a crap and do there living on the cheap schemes and causing other trouble too.

    It was a disgrace what happened to Garden Festival because of neglect for example. Theres been a lack of maintaining. It was a disgrace that as a major city we never had a major Airport until recently or a proper cruise liner so cruises had the awful site of the bootle end of the docks.

    Getting around on public transport and the roads are a problem too, the stuff Waterways says about our transport are true.

    It's funny how we can laugh at humour but when Liverpool humour Is on the TV or the net, theres a big uproar about It at times too.

    Theres bad social problems In this city too.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Great as far as the city centre goes but remember that was private investment happening anyway.

    It's no good for the chavs with no hope and in a culture of lying in, benefits, drugs and crime on the outside estates looking in and seeing this revamp as a million miles away from them.

    Derelict land and poorly planned estates need regenerating and the council need to make sure their builders use some of these kids as trainees to learn a trade. Too many get rich quick developers have been allowed to deface our heritage, the Sir Thomas st building and Josephine Butler house spring to mind that had completely acceptable buildings which should have been protected.

    New planning applications need to take all of the above into account.
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    Liverpool city council is a Liberal Democratic council and they will no doubt accept the laurels for last years City of Culture celebrations. I think inevitably some will feel alienated. Regarding cash rewards the very nature of representative democracy will insure that those benefits are invisible to the scouser in the street, and will be shown as part of the overall regeneration of the city. I saw the eyesores myself coming into the city from Edge lane with the murals on the boarded up derelict buildings. However being a Bertolt Brecht fan I believe you should not dawdle on a project but grasp the moment and plough on. So those who took the imitative did the right thing in my view I save my criticism for the council who had enough time to act on a lot of issues regarding regeneration and never. Yes the tall ships weekend was a success and so too other events. Regards the musical heritage of the city it is not something I particularly care for so I never took much interest, although the figures given credit Paul McCartney with creating Five Million, fair play to Sir Paul. I thought perhaps that something new might spring out from the creative side of Liverpool that has yet to be seen. I think there is a danger that representation will remain with the Liverpool cultural elite and that people will stay alienated from the real discourse which has to be about Europe, although it is rarely mentioned, it is in the final analysis about being a European city.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    I enjoyed bits of it.

    Matthew street festival was my Fav, but thats not really a new event.

    I hated the roadworks and i still do. Is there any road left to dig up in this city

    Pity that most things where set in the city centre as it would have been nice to have more large events in the outer city.

    For myself i shall see how much of a success it is when my Council tax bills arrive over the next two years. I think they will rise a lot, if they do them im out of here.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

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    Default agree

    I agree with all above.
    You say that all the stuff done was in the town and not in out lay areas.
    Not to cause a arggie but thats how we feel up here in jock land.
    Why is all the big events always down south.
    The important thing is simple "what are YOU going to do about it.
    In britain I fee the issue is "AH someone else will do it".
    In Forfar here I joined the Forfar partnership" Ok we can't do much but we are doing small things to help the town . We run Fairs, open days concerts etc.
    It all helps and you get your point across to the city council.
    Stagecoach buses tried to stop some services. We manage to get the boss down and they have started them again.
    So don't leave liverpool to go down . Make yourselves heard. Get involved.
    No I don't mean run for office, but there is many ways it can be done.
    We have proved it in forfar.
    So be the first to say "your not on Jimmy, it's our town and we want our say."
    You will be amazed at the grants you can get to make your little part of liverpool better.
    Ron"
    Last edited by Ron B Manderson; 01-07-2009 at 03:32 PM.

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    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    I enjoyed bits of it.

    Matthew street festival was my Fav, but thats not really a new event.

    I hated the roadworks and i still do. Is there any road left to dig up in this city

    Pity that most things where set in the city centre as it would have been nice to have more large events in the outer city.

    For myself i shall see how much of a success it is when my Council tax bills arrive over the next two years. I think they will rise a lot, if they do them im out of here.


    A 4.5% rise is on the cards apparently.


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    Start lookin Spike, it's going to happen.

    I think this Year has been good but really its been poorly organised by the council. Strategically the amount of events was average. Individually those events were great but i believe the majority of the 'cultural' events were nothing to do with the council.

    The Liverpool sound concert only went ahead because Mr McCartney stepped in. Matthew street was great but this is a yearly event and anything is better than the shambles of the previous year. The Tall Ships was organised by sail training UK, the council bid to get it, admittedly they did help organise the support infrastructure such as the hospitality and the locations (why Peel want to make the docks closer to the pierhead shallower when this event brought in 8m in a week is stupid, but that's a discussion we've had before). The Honda powerboats; again bid for by the culture company but organised by Honda, but i think they've still not bid for the event for this year. I may be wrong. There are others but those are the few events that spring to my mind (just an after thought, the ice rink at St Georges hall, i was embarrassed when my misses took her brother from N.I. to go skating. It was tiny and didn't warrant ?6 for an hour). la Machine which was great and admittedly i think organised and funded by the culture company same again for the lamb bananas, thumbs up.

    Regarding the legacy we have Liverpool 1. hurray! But surely (yes and don't call me Shirley) this is a private enterprise investment and not council organised. The new museum which replaced the failed cyst building, still not finished. The canal link (yes i have gripes about it but i can see it being a crowd pleaser especially when they transform the central docks) still not finished but ultimately British waterways and Peel would have to claim the credit for that one.

    The two i think that the council can be happy to claim is the new cruise liner terminal. A great bit of thinking, now they just need to sort out the baggage and customs facilities and we'll be on to a winner. And also the arena and convention centre which they've been promising for years.

    All in all, i think the council and the government have done a good job in providing the city with the opportunities for more private investment to be pumped in leading up to 2008, but should the council and the government not have already been doing that anyway? To me that is one of the councils primary remits which i think it still needs to address. When you think that they've lost at least ?2billion in investment (maro and a few others) and what real legacy have we got from 2008 that most other cities didn't get from the likes of the millennium projects in the late 90's/early 00's?

    Was this our overdue millennium party? i don't know about you but I think so.

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    It was great for the city centre. The rest got left out, all the grot and rot that was there before CoC is still the same today.
    Fazakerley, Norris Green,Walton to name but few seen NOTHING (Oh sorry we got a stupid Llambanana). I really don't think any suburbs gained anything from this CoC. For the most part of L/pool it is still a dump!!

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    Default Morph

    Does anyone feel more European
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    Does anyone feel more European
    Si Soy Espanol
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ged View Post
    A 4.5% rise is on the cards apparently.


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    Ged we will have to have a farewell pint me lad
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    For myself i shall see how much of a success it is when my Council tax bills arrive over the next two years. I think they will rise a lot, if they do them im out of here.
    They should tax the rich more for It, they can afford It plus they don't get taxed enough.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    paddy Paddy's Avatar
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    Default Scouse snobs

    Are there rich people on Meseyside
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    Are there rich people on Meseyside
    Yes, many though not all of them are Infidels.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Default Front and back gardens

    My word Liverpool has changed alot since I lived there
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    They wouldn't have to increase the tax on anyone if they used the money properly.

    Besides what do you define as being rich? someone who makes above 40k a year? or a millionaire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Ged we will have to have a farewell pint me lad

    Too late.

    Got out years ago

    When work commitments seeing me commute for 5 years was getting on top then I realised I could move up 2 bands of housing and pay cheaper council tax than I was, and not spend a fortune on water meters there was no question.








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    Default The Last Day

    So what was it like down the Pier Head last night.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Very good. Packed, lots of ships horns and fireworks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
    My word Liverpool has changed alot since I lived there
    And not for the better either. Have you seen the suburbs?

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    Default Safari Parks and Big macs

    Yeah but to be fair most of the Suburbs are in Knowsley now
    Last edited by Paddy; 01-12-2009 at 12:43 PM.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broliv View Post
    They wouldn't have to increase the tax on anyone if they used the money properly.

    Besides what do you define as being rich? someone who makes above 40k a year? or a millionaire?
    Over 40k Is well off, over 100k Is rich I guess.

    The rich need taxing more than they do though, the lower Incomes need a little less taxing as their screwed over to suit the rich.

    And not for the better either. Have you seen the suburbs?
    The worst ones near me are the South/North and Avenue/Hale Road suburbs In Speke, under the bridge In Garston although at lest their getting new houses and Gramby Street In Toxteth. Lodge Lane and Earl road are bad too.

    Yet were supposed to have a liberial council who care about the lower Income.

    Anyone know what the local Labour council are like? SSC don't say much except for that their worse than the Lib Dems.
    Gididi Gididi Goo.

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    Default Representation.

    My sister in law is the labour councilor for Garston. I have been a Labour voter all my life. I fail to understand how the Lib Dems control Liverpool. When you consider that at national level Labour M P?s represent the city. The idea that Lib Dems represent the local community better than Labour is misleading. The Lib Dems have a small business middle class bias in local politics. The idea that they are more respectable than Labour is also misleading they have over the years been guilty of gross negligence towards the Liverpool working class community. Remember that the City of Liverpool has always been a stronghold of Labour support. I don?t live there but I know from experience that the working class will always be better represented by Labour.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

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    Member Ron B Manderson's Avatar
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    As I have said before
    It is your town so do something about getting your views across
    Don't leave it to others .
    The trouble with some british people is apathy.They say "why should I bother" I say If not why not.
    So stand up and be counted.
    Liverpool has a lot to be proud of. Don't let others drag you down
    Ron

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