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Thread: Liverpool Pals

  1. #31
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Hi Spike can you see what you can "dig up" on my Great Uncle John Henry Williams he was born in 1898 and died of his wounds on the 22nd of October 1917 at home nursed by his Mum and my Nan,he is buried in Toxteth Park, I have not put him on your site but should do , he was the second son of my Great Grandparents to die in WW1 his elder brother George had died in February the same year.
    His number was 285053 in the Welsh regiment and 204272 in the Liverpool regiment.

  2. #32
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Will do Squiggs

    It will be later as I have to go out now.

    First on me agenda when I get in.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  3. #33
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Will do Squiggs

    It will be later as I have to go out now.

    First on me agenda when I get in.
    Thanks Spike

  4. #34
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Hi Squiggs

    Nothing coming up on the service or pension records sorry. Only about 10% survived the WW2 bombings.

    The Soldiers that died disc list him as being born and enlisting in Liverpool.

    Notes he was formerly 204272 Kings Liverpool Regiment. And that he died of wounds in the UK.

    Do you have his medal card?

    If not its here.

    Sorry not much info for you.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  5. #35
    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    http://www.lps-athletics.co.uk/histo...asse/index.htm

    Noel and his twin brother Christopher. Info on their athletics career and the 1908 Olympics. Some good pics here.
    I'm mentioned on page 48 on that site! Me and Robbie Wood, the bloke who put the Chavasse page together for the site are still mates after 42 years.

  6. #36
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Ged how do you order these certificates from Southport?

    Its ages since I bought one.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  7. #37
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    C,mon peeps give me your rellies.

    Im eager to look.

    You just dont know what may turn up.

    Me and Ged on this forum. Well our ancestors lived next door to one another in 1881. each family had a daughter aged about 9 so they probably played together. both families would have known each other.

    Strange aint it 129 years later and heres me and Ged.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  8. #38
    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    I found my great-uncle's attestation papers. He was living in the US when WW1 started and went to Canada to join up. He was in the 16Bn Manitoba Regt. He died of wounds in a German POW camp in 1915.

    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...&id_nbr=314582

    His brother George, my grandad, joined the Royal Artillery in 1914. In 1939, he joined the TA. When WW2 started, he was sent to an anti-aircraft battery in Birkenhead. There was no proper AA gun and all they had was a Lewis gun! He was later sent to the Western Desert. He was discharged in 1943. He worked on the railway all his working life (apart from the wars) on the Permanent Way. He wouldn't have a word said against Aussies or Kiwis because he had served with then in both wars.

  9. #39
    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    I'd just like to say what a mate Spike is for finding things out about my family which I never knew. Where they lived etc. Thanks Spike!

  10. #40
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Thanks for trying Spike !....
    You can put John Henry on your site (if you want to !)..sorry no pictures survive !
    My Great Uncle John Henry was the third son of George and Jane (nee Cobain) Williams,born in 1898 he went against his families wishes and enlisted in the Army.
    He started Army life with the Liverpool regiment but was transfered to the Welsh regiment.
    He was wounded in 1917 and was transfered home where his parents collected him from Aldershot dispite the best of care and constant nursing from his mother and sister (my Nan) Sarah Ann Roe he sadly died on the 22nd of October 1917 just a few months after the death of his elder brother George.
    He was buried in Toxteth Park with full honours

  11. #41
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Not Liverpool, but it dont half hit you in the heart.

    Captain Charlie May, 22nd Manchester Regiment. Writing home to his wife on 16th June 1916. 2 weeks before the Battle of The Somme began.

    " I do not want to die… If it be that I am to go, I am ready.

    But the thought that I may never see you or our darling baby again turns my bowels to water. I cannot think of it with even the semblance of equanimity. "

    Charlie was killed in action on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. 1st July 1916.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  12. #42
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Dreadful Spike. I seen some diaries in the IWM, they had an exhibition of them a while ago. Really sad.

  13. #43
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Very sad and terribly moving story !....
    Any chance of putting John Henry Williams story on Spike ?, its on the previous page

  14. #44
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squiggs View Post
    Very sad and terribly moving story !....
    Any chance of putting John Henry Williams story on Spike ?, its on the previous page
    Yep I will Squiggs.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  15. #45
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    A German soldier takes pity on a wounded man.

    Then I caught sight of the first of the enemy. A figure crouched, wounded apparently, three metres in front of me in the middle of the pounded hollow of the road. I saw him start at the sight of me and stare at me with wide-open eyes as I walked slowly up to him holding out my revolver in front of me. A drama without an audience was ready. To me the mere sight of an enemy in tangible form was a release. Grinding my teeth, I pressed the muzzle to the temple of this wretch, whom terror now crippled, and with my other hand gripped hold of his tunic. With a beseeching cry he snatched a photograph from his pocket and held it before my eyes .... himself surrounded by a numerous family. I forced down my mad rage and walked past.
    (Ernst Junger; a German Storm-troop officer during the war.)
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  16. #46
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Squiggs its on the site.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  17. #47
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Nice one Spike.

  18. #48
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Squiggs its on the site.
    Thanks Spike .....hope Sue is feeling better now !

  19. #49
    Senior Member squiggs's Avatar
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    Spike I have another rellie for you but cant find details !, this is what I know.....his name was Thomas Hughes (my Grandfathers brother) he was born in about 1892 in Toxteth son of Griffith and Esther and he died at the battle of the Somme in 1916, thats it !!....I remember in my Grandads house there was a portrait of a soldier in uniform I can inly assume it was Thomas, but none of the family know what happened to it !....can you help ?

  20. #50
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    I read Charlie May's letter about 6 years ago. I am not ashamed to say that it brought tears to my eyes.

    It makes you look at your own loved one's and be thankful that you can share their lives. unlike so many of the brave who fell.

    I decided I had to take something from Charlie May's story. It touched me so much. I just had to make his short life mean something. That is how I look at all those who died at war. My Grandfather and My two Great Grandfathers died at war and of course their stories are special to me. But I try to look at all those who served and died on all sides. Remembering them is a duty I believe. Thats why I do the research. A few madmen on all sides caused all this, the others were victims. They were just like you and and me living their lives.
    Remembering them is the least I can do. Thank you Charlie for the nudge.

    If you did not see the CH4 Documentary " THE SOMME " you can see it on Youtube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pjYxhzPJgE

    It is worth watching. The story is told from letters of men serving on all sides. It is based around the 22nd Manchesters, of whom Charlie May was Captain. It really is thought provoking. It includes a passage from Charlie May's letter to his wife, It is a hard person that is not moved by his letter or this documentary.

    I hope it will get people interested in their own relatives or their local memorial. You can research them. I am here to offer help and advice.

    Meet up 11th November 11.am The Cenotaph.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  21. #51
    Senior Member RonnieW's Avatar
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    My mate's son Raymond Waring was in that documentary Spike. I'd say it's one of the best things I've ever seen on the First World War.

  22. #52
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Ronnie has submitted his story for his Great Grandfather Joseph Tague.

    With Ronnie's blessing I am posting his story here. I was very moved reading it.



    Visit to the grave of Private Joseph Tague, King's Liverpool Regiment. 1878-1916.

    In 1984 I was a member of 307 ( City of Liverpool ) Field Ambulance RAMC (V). That year, Our Annualcamp was taking place in Grobbendonk , near the town of Herentals in Belgium.
    The only other time I had ever been to Belgium was travelling through from Ostend on our way to the 1977 European cup final. I knew my Great-Grandad was buried somewhere in Belgium because the family sometimes mentioned it.

    I asked my Grandma, his daughter Florence Roberts if she had any information on my Great-Grandad Joseph Tague. She had some old papers in a box which included a letter of condolence to his wife from his employer, Liverpool Corporation, and a letter from the government giving the name of the cemetery he was buried in, Lijssenthoek.Joe joined the 1st/5th Battalion of The King's Liverpool Regiment. One of the Liverpool Pals battalions. He left a wife and 7 children, an eight having died while still a baby.

    The only information the family had about Joe was that he had been wounded in the neck while the battalion were in trenches in the Ypres Salient. A neighbour's son had seen Joe being carried up the line by stretcher bearers and written home to tell his mother. She then called round to see if Joe's wife Eliza had any further news. she didn't, but soon the telegram arrived informing her that Joe had died from his wounds.

    Like many people who lived through those times, Eliza always referred to 'France' when she meant the area of North eastern France and North western Belgium. Few people ever referred to Belgium.

    I made a note of the cemetery and took it to Belgium with me in case it was near Herentals and our camp. The first week passed as any other TA camp did whether on Salisbury plain or Catterick. Living in tents then spending four days on exercise with other TA and regular units. The following saturday, we left the tents for a permanent camp in Grobbendonk.

    Already there were our friends from 308 ( City of London ) General haspital. Our chaplain asked if anyone was interested in a coach trip to visit the battlefields of Flanders. Suprisingly, only about 50 people were interested out of several hundred, the bars of the town being a bigger attraction for them.

    We made an early start on the Sunday morning, the chaplain having found a retired Royal Corps of Transport Major who was an expert on the area to act as guide. The Major brought with him some tapes of interviews with veterans of WW1, and tapes of popular songs of the day. I asked him if he had heard of Lijssentoek. He had, and told me we would be passing very close to it and would make a stop.

    After a trip along the motorway, the Major pointing out places where incidents of WW2 had taken place, we arrived in Flanders. We saw the WW1 memorial to the Rifle Brigade, which the Germans had shot at when they invaded again in 1940, the site of one of the tunnels the British had dug under the German trenches, some very substantial two storey German block houses made of concrete, and on to the cemetery near Ypres where Captain Noel Chavasse VC and Bar was buried.

    I was very interested in seeing this paticular grave as Captain Chavasse ran for Sefton Harriers, the club I was a member of. His father had been the second Church of England Bishop of Liverpooland had christened some of Joe's children at St Luke's church, so there was a slight family link. As we were a medical unit and Captain Chavasse was an officer in the RAMC, we had a short service at the grave before getting back onboard the coach. We had only been travelling a few minutes when we stopped and the Major announced we were going to look for the grave of a relative of one of our party.

    The other passengers seemed very interested, and everyone left the coach to see the grave of Joe Tague. Commonwealth War Graves have solid stome gate post and inside one of the posts is set a steel box containing a book with the details of each grave, the name, rank and number, name of wife and the address at the time of death og the man interred. How long these books would last back home is anyone's guess.

    The Major took out the book and asked me if the named man was my Great-Grandad. Its quite a moving experience to see the details of a relative, even one who had died many years before, written down. There, in a place far away and from a different time was Joe's name, the name of his wife Eliza, and their address, 31 Blake Street, Liverpool. The house was destroyed by a land mine in December 1940, along with much of the family photographs and papers, so I would like to place on record my thanks to Anthony Hogan of Yo Liverpool for filling in sevaral important gaps.

    We soon found Joe's grave, which like every other grave was immaculately maintained. The King's ( Liverpool ) Regiment badge, his name, rank and serial number were unaffected by decades Belgian rain, and were very clear on the White headstone.

    The Major told us that Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery had been attached to a field hostpital and that most of those buried there had died of wounds while being treated at the hospital. Not far from Joe's grave were a row of five German graves. The headstones of the German soldiers differed from those of Commenwealth troops in being square topped rather than having a slight arc.

    The Major explained that in the Ypres Salient, the German's were able to fire on the allied armies from three sides, but as even the slightest hill gave a valuable view of enemy positions in the mainly flat Flanders countryside, the British were in no mood to relinquish the salient or the town which stood beside it.

    I took some photograph's of Joe's grave to give my Granmother and several members of our party wanted photograph's of me standing behind his headstone to take back home to show their families. If only Joe had known that twenty four years after his death, his surviving son Edward and his son-in-law, Jack Roberts would be back in Belgium and France fighting over the same country against the same enemy.

    We boarded the bus and the Major told us we still had plenty to see, which turned out to be correct! In the next few hours we visited Hill 62, the nearvy sanctuary wood, Maple Copse, Polygon wood, Kemmel, Hellfire corner, Ploegsteert wood ( nicknamed " Plug Street " ) the massive crater left by the mine at Hooge, the huge Tyne Cot Cemetery, and the nearby field where Canadian Lt Col. John McCrae and an unknown RAMC Captained who was dressing his wounds penned the Great war poem ' In Flanders Fields '

    We visited the town of Poperinghe which is home to Talbot House, the house which Rev 'Tubby' Clayton opened as a place where soldiers could rest when out of the front line for a few days. The charity 'Toc-H' takes its name from Talbot House ( T H being 'Toc-H' in the phonetic alphabet of the day.

    A visit to the Menin gate to the the thousands of names engraved there and to hear Last Post sounded by the Ypres Fire Brigade Buglers rounded off the day. All commenwealth countries are represented on the walls of that great memorial and it would do the members of certain political parties well to visit it and see the hundreds of names which are more familiar in the Sub Continent and Africa than the fields of Northen Europe.

    For many in our group, the Menin gate would be the highlight of a very interesting and moving day, but for this paticular Scouser, nothing could beat seeing the last resting place of his Great-Grandad, Private Joseph Tague, a Liverpool Pal.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  23. #53
    Senior Member lindylou's Avatar
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    Quote:Its quite a moving experience to see the details of a relative, even one who had died many years before, written down. There, in a place far away and from a different time was Joe's name, the name of his wife Eliza, and their address, 31 Blake Street, Liverpool. The house was destroyed by a land mine in December 1940, along with much of the family photographs and papers, so I would like to place on record my thanks to Anthony Hogan of Yo Liverpool for filling in sevaral important gaps. Quote.



    It is so true how moving it is to see lost relatives listed names. So sad, but I am glad you found this.

    .. and well done to Spike/Tony

  24. #54
    pfft Spike's Avatar
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    Lindy this is all Ronnie's work.

    I looked up in census records for Joseph.

    The war story is all his. And I think it is great to read his journey.
    BE NICE......................OR ELSE

  25. #55
    Pablo42 pablo42's Avatar
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    Nice one.

  26. #56
    Re-member Ged's Avatar
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    Well done to all.


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